Post Ajd2Rk4AZT3M5IsP3I by aral@mastodon.ar.al
(DIR) More posts by aral@mastodon.ar.al
(DIR) Post #AjY5BrWEQHhwdZK2U4 by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2024-07-03T09:05:13Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
Technology is political.If your project or organisation has a “no politics” clause, you’re saying you’re happy to exclude people whose very existence is political in our societies.It’s only defensible if you’re coming from a point of privilege where the dominant politics are to your advantage so you can take them as given.There is no such thing as “no politics”; there is only “no politics other than the politics of the status quo that I benefit from, which I’ve internalised as normal.”
(DIR) Post #AjY5QMWJxOwuqBHIw4 by fkamiah17@syzito.xyz
2024-07-03T09:07:49Z
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@aral 👏 👏 👏
(DIR) Post #AjY5bWJprm8WPql6Y4 by Thebratdragon@mastodon.scot
2024-07-03T09:09:50Z
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@aral 99.9999% of no politics clauses actually mean, we are out and out fascists but you are not allowed to comment on that as you build improved IBM Punch Cards for their concentration camps.
(DIR) Post #AjY5gWCRjkQFUhga4O by jdrm@social.linux.pizza
2024-07-03T09:10:41Z
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@aral agree with your toot. It's great. Everything is political. FOSS is political. The exclusion of the diversity by the name of "no politics" is a political choice.
(DIR) Post #AjY7xV3pQOHInDscgy by alexanderhay@mastodon.social
2024-07-03T09:36:03Z
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@aral "No politics please!" is the sort of argument a politician would make.
(DIR) Post #AjYF1U0txXxkNmMDgm by gimulnautti@mastodon.green
2024-07-03T10:55:20Z
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@aral This is true. No politics is only possible from a position of privilegeStill, people do sometimes get tired of politics. And their internal motivations for doing things often exclude politicsI've often said that #woke is the greatest ideology of all, but at the same time it is also so incredibly difficult that no person in this world can pull it off all the timeThis is why I call for wisdom, and compassion for those who cannot see their own error. Turning them against woke is worse!
(DIR) Post #AjYFc525ng7DcXMi3s by que@mastodon.au
2024-07-03T11:01:56Z
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@aral aka "news flash: black and white statements usually have grey areas".
(DIR) Post #AjYGNhqrI4kZcpow1w by zy@masto.bike
2024-07-03T11:10:26Z
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@aral facts
(DIR) Post #AjYHuShQkL1y8tarUO by tcvega@mastodon.social
2024-07-03T11:27:39Z
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@aral Some bars have a "no religion, no politics" rule, because that's where people tend to get passionate and opinions differ. I totally get why they would try that in a technical project -- whether it's realistic is a different matter. In any case, shouting and name calling won't help the cause 😞
(DIR) Post #AjYJdlrkQtNcZUaXjs by sirobsidian@fosstodon.org
2024-07-03T11:47:06Z
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@aral Alternatively "no politics" could actually mean straight up that at no point no political discussions, opinions or anything is allowed within the spaces of the community. "No politics" combined with an absolute "no discrimination" clause is exactly what I think most communities should adopt. (Anyone can feel free to reply to share their opinion.)
(DIR) Post #AjYRPLwknoU9lOZ8s4 by delosmzp@mastodon.social
2024-07-03T13:14:08Z
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@aral Well, normally when a policy of no politics is in place, all that means is that no political discourse must exists at your workplace or while working. It only means refraining from the subject matter in all correspondence when at work. It does not mean disparagement whose existence may be political. You’re conflating the two, I feel.
(DIR) Post #AjYRsszD2bOidEnSPA by urlyman@mastodon.social
2024-07-03T13:19:18Z
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@aral now is not the time, Aral https://mastodon.social/@urlyman/112717725140474421
(DIR) Post #AjYTpYQVE1JDuG6O4O by junesim63@mstdn.social
2024-07-03T13:41:14Z
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@aral My father-in-law used to say "Politics is the food on your table".
(DIR) Post #AjYVJab5ooBZHSwPlg by meowski
2024-07-03T13:58:24.650648Z
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@aral tell us you've never written a line of code or done any sort of technical work in your life, without coming out and saying it directly. injecting politics into tech projects is parasitic garbage. screw off
(DIR) Post #AjYWe1ta8MqFgrtqfg by realcaseyrollins@noauthority.social
2024-07-03T14:13:18Z
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@aral > Technology is political.How?
(DIR) Post #AjYWgPsdvi1ueobBku by realcaseyrollins@noauthority.social
2024-07-03T14:13:43Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@aral brb, writing "The politics of mspaint"
(DIR) Post #AjYY0buH1fHvhaYRnc by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2024-07-03T14:28:33Z
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@meowski https://ar.al/bio/Now fuck off.😘
(DIR) Post #AjYYLyDtFVg2zpuoC0 by meowski
2024-07-03T14:32:27.372130Z
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@aral webshit doesn't really qualify. very low technical skill and knowledge required so you can still waste resources injecting your idiocy into it
(DIR) Post #AjYYc4FUc3xAJoLBFQ by stanley@heretic.social
2024-07-03T14:24:32Z
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@aral My teenage daughter told me she’s “not into politics” — which is hilarious because she lives in the SF Bay Area and just doesn’t realize what politics is. I asked her if she thought her friends should be able to choose their pronouns.“Well, that’s just being kind, not politics.”
(DIR) Post #AjYaQtu6vzkaxQ8tCy by mighty_orbot@retro.pizza
2024-07-03T14:55:10Z
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@aral If someone’s objection over personal “politics” has nothing to do with lawmaking, politicians, or elections, then they’re not opposed to politics; they’re just assholes.
(DIR) Post #AjYav2QzmbzK6LtWoC by martinicat@mastodon.social
2024-07-03T15:00:29Z
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@aral one of the things that no one commenting on your observation that technology is political noted… wait that sounds too complicated. “No politics “also means “no unions “ . No political organization to take the side of the tech workers. Don’t argue! Get back to work!🍸🐈
(DIR) Post #AjYhMzzn2klQN3sxEG by KnightMcLeod@newsie.social
2024-07-03T16:12:20Z
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@aral any time more than two people interact you have politics. . .
(DIR) Post #AjYrK2jFQMAhWLNRLc by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2024-07-03T18:03:47Z
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@lucasgonze Oh yes, Lucas, that’s exactly what this is about. Gold star for effort, baby.
(DIR) Post #AjYwqxhbdIlxG57q3U by tcvega@mastodon.social
2024-07-03T19:05:36Z
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@aral @lucasgonze I think it's a fair point though. If politics and advocacy are allowed everywhere, then we can't complain if the other side advocates for their own firm and possibly misguided beliefs. If we did, we'd cede the moral high ground, right?And that is why workplaces and quite a few open source projects try to keep politics out. It's extremely distracting, no matter how well-intended.
(DIR) Post #AjaJWGLJconR5ql3ZI by lxo@gnusocial.net
2024-07-03T18:50:47Z
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I guess I know now what motivated your post. that specific topic was not in my mind, but even though I'm favorable to the use of inclusive and gender-neutral language, I sense and disapprove of oppression and violence as means to promote it. I'm also sympathetic to people who are triggered by such controversies and confrontations, and who would much rather avoid being dragged into such fights between opposing oppressors. when such means of promotion are adopted, no matter which side prevails, oppressors will have won.
(DIR) Post #AjaJWHWLFJD6kKvNOS by dcent@gnusocial.net
2024-07-04T10:55:20Z
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@aral @meowskiWhat precidely is causing this discussion?If fediverse is going to be a place where people can come together, despite their ideological differences, then we cannot have rampant #isolationism. I'm seeing a dangerous trend in fediverse that is mostly coming from the mastodon crowd, that appears to be more and more trigger-friendly.Oh, you are a small business, sharing your wares? #capitalism BLOCK. Oh, you are talking positively about the legal tender of #ElSalvador (hint: the currency that is not the US dollar)? #ecoterrorist BLOCK. Oh, you are pointing out how #Germany in the 1930s was bankrolled by the US and UK? #conspiracy BLOCK. Oh, you don't like that the kindergarden is making gender discussion fun? #terf BLOKThis is isolationist and ultimately will... (1 of 2)
(DIR) Post #AjaJlqsM4xCmk3e5BI by dcent@gnusocial.net
2024-07-04T10:58:15Z
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@aral @meowski(2 of 2)... ensure that everyone on fedi loses because we will not be able to interact with the apparent "unwashed masses". People are going to come here with baggage from the silo-networks and may have different opinions that might seems unshakeable, our role is to be fabulous examples of awesome, and they will slowly get over themselves. As individuals, muting is fine, but I do take issue with wholesale trigger happy blocking by instances, and algorithms to filter the chronological feed. It just means we keep people on the #fakebook-style platforms, which are extracting the very life essence from our societies for multinational corporate gain.Please stop and think; there is more to a person than their stance on #gender. We cannot stop the greater ills when we are made to be divided. 🤔😘Again, I'd like to know what actually spurred this thread.#identityPolitics #bigotry #intolerance #fediblock
(DIR) Post #AjaWDN03wrUpdt8fDc by meowski
2024-07-04T13:17:54.869116Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@dcent @lxo allowing political ideologues to infiltrate your software project or company is a mistake. look at mozilla. there are countless others.tranny jannies infiltrate, then they start language policing, and multiply like cancer, bringing on their dead weight friends to complain and drive out the productive elements, so that you're left with a bunch of complainers and attention seekers who do stuff like language police markdown files, but don't actually write code or do anything real.
(DIR) Post #AjauxVuVY8uTUx4nbs by OddDev@floss.social
2024-07-04T17:54:35Z
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@aral Is that about #ladybird?😏
(DIR) Post #Ajb0FOWIGXg1Yn60jw by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2024-07-04T18:53:54Z
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@OddDev 👍
(DIR) Post #AjbqbVDFG412Ix37Im by dawngreeter@dice.camp
2024-07-05T04:40:29Z
2 likes, 5 repeats
@aral Female hair is either long or political. Sexual orientation is either heterosexual or political. Gender identity is either cis or political. Clothing is either gender stereotyped and boring or political. City infrastructure is either car-focused or political. Energy is either fossil fuels or political. Education is either white christian propaganda or political.Everything follows the same pattern, tech included.
(DIR) Post #AjcALDJE3NQTEBMC1I by Sh41@androiddev.social
2024-07-05T08:21:43Z
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@aral I'd say many people do that without malice. They are just so used to the privileged position they internalised as normal (which society promotes) that they are unable to realize what they're doing. Some are even very receptive when you show them that, and turn into quite powerful allies.
(DIR) Post #AjcAkR0WGDlQx4dL04 by sellathechemist@mastodon.social
2024-07-05T08:26:13Z
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@aral I think you should expand that to Science AND Technology are political. There is no greater indication of the fact that certain politicians attack the science they find unpalatable.
(DIR) Post #AjcDygcjIQ6XIkzegy by scottmatter@aus.social
2024-07-05T09:01:56Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@aral Paraphrasing from the field of research, there’s no such thing as apolitical, everyone’s got a political position whether we acknowledge it or state it explicitly or not. The opposite of politics isn’t “no politics” it’s bad politics.
(DIR) Post #AjcEcZWt5jqQsmHPQO by trib@aus.social
2024-07-05T09:09:39Z
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@aral @scottmatter *all* labor is political - you sell your skills, effort, and time for a return and *who* you sell it to matters. What you do and how you do it matters. Work is observable as a political act.
(DIR) Post #AjcGFiIAXvBpJ6chcG by sortius@mastodon.social
2024-07-05T09:27:54Z
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@aral this is why I'm deadset against the dickhead who demanded politics be CWed. Not only is that massive toxic privilege, it stifles those of us whose very survival is dictated by political winds.I say fuck em, and post in their faces!
(DIR) Post #AjcTdO1QrMY8nMPgBs by aspragg@ohai.social
2024-07-05T10:18:06Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@dawngreeter @aral The status quo is never "political". Change is political.
(DIR) Post #AjcTmf2iwiEoBsRKXA by robparsons@mastodon.social
2024-07-05T09:41:06Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@dawngreeter @aral true conversation on a doorstep a few years ago. "We're voting Conservative. My father was Army, my husband was Army, and we're non-political".
(DIR) Post #AjcZBndKdxRdqNMxIu by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2024-07-05T13:00:04.992607Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@aral And the way technology gets designed is very political, after all "code is law".As proven many times by the software used and made for public services and utility companies.
(DIR) Post #AjcaK60OJxKz5tfuHw by Zergling_man@sacred.harpy.faith
2024-07-05T13:13:11.144652Z
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@aral Jew
(DIR) Post #Ajck01Y8B1wb1aWYL2 by amberage@eldritch.cafe
2024-07-05T15:01:10Z
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@aral politi*cised*, really. Our existence is politicised. It shouldn't be political, but it's made political by people who don't want us to exist at all.
(DIR) Post #Ajck3pnXoIV5jjYC80 by amberage@eldritch.cafe
2024-07-05T15:01:49Z
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@aral@mastodon.ar.al politiycised, really. Our existence is politicised. It shouldn't be political, but it's made political by people who don't want us to exist at all.
(DIR) Post #Ajck7aw70YnYnmLpKa by amberage@eldritch.cafe
2024-07-05T15:01:59Z
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@aral politiycised, really. Our existence is politicised. It shouldn't be political, but it's made political by people who don't want us to exist at all.
(DIR) Post #AjcmXIOMmH0Uj1wwOe by raphael@mastodon.communick.com
2024-07-05T15:29:42Z
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@aral I honestly do not see how it follows. Is the argument that we can not separate people from their work and political motivations?
(DIR) Post #AjctwcZLb0v6Dq6pFY by jason@logoff.website
2024-07-05T16:52:42Z
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@aral @theory I don’t know how this is translated for most country cultures but in the US if a place is “not political” you can bet your ass it’s only enforced against things done by people in the outgroup.I’ve never seen a “no politics” workplace let gay couples bring photos of their spouses for their desks but kick out a straight person for doing the same. Not once.
(DIR) Post #Ajd0YZpooHQqTGINBg by lispi314@udongein.xyz
2024-07-05T18:03:24.628320Z
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@realcaseyrollins @aral Proprietary malware is inherently political by its existence, much like Free Software, for the freedoms they provide or deny to the user.
(DIR) Post #Ajd0Yb5S9dX4M2cNCC by realcaseyrollins@noauthority.social
2024-07-05T18:07:17Z
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@lispi314 @aral Technology is about as political as baseball 😆
(DIR) Post #Ajd0xRXMnUtxyZWPVg by lispi314@udongein.xyz
2024-07-05T18:09:40.722421Z
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@realcaseyrollins @aral And so you completely failed to notice the monopoly of invention and right to repair (and improve, and modify, and share as you want) implications in Free Software vs Proprietary Malware.If you're not willing to truly engage with anything, of course you won't find anything.
(DIR) Post #Ajd0xSJDvZBOMzud6W by realcaseyrollins@noauthority.social
2024-07-05T18:11:47Z
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@lispi314 @aral I mean, right to repair is certainly political, as are other things like #DRM, but that doesn't make *all* technology political. Y'all are committing to the parts-to-whole fallacy here.
(DIR) Post #Ajd2Rk4AZT3M5IsP3I by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2024-07-05T18:27:56Z
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@Erithorn I believe you’ve misunderstood my post. This is about a project telling people who wanted to use inclusive language in their documentation that they shouldn’t bring their “political agenda” to the table because “no politics”.In tech circles, at least, if an org says “no politics”, it usually means no politics except ours.(PS. I’m from the Middle East. So, yeah, I know a thing or two about being discriminated against. Sorry to hear of your experiences with antisemitism.)
(DIR) Post #AjdEbZKoWZft9B78DY by bzzzwa@mas.to
2024-07-05T20:44:12Z
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@aral Thank you for saying it!
(DIR) Post #AjdFzvo0jIHZk9x332 by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2024-07-05T20:59:48Z
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@bzzzwa 💕
(DIR) Post #AjdgAWUvlFNFFLjojA by adamvs1@mastodon.world
2024-07-06T01:53:02Z
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@aral In liberal democracies “Politics” is usually meant narrowly as “party politics” which is portrayed as a horse race between jack asses. So folks turn off about politics (and many pols like that).Politics is how we ‘decide’ to live together, and who has the power to influence that. Which is why we get to vote for or against representatives, but have no similar democratic rights at work regarding bosses(this is a very bad situation IMHO). Politics could be different.
(DIR) Post #AjdvHoEDjj8nZmr1eK by thisven@digitalcourage.social
2024-07-06T04:42:23Z
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@aral Lately, an event proposal for collectively watching a debate of @epicenter_works from an engaged student has been rejected at my university since it was "too political".However, a public viewing of a European championship soccer match was allowed. 🙄 The university administration itself took care of the organization.Background: The same student was telling the dean – who rejected the event proposal – in a lecture that it's racist to say "You know, the common russian is spying on us".
(DIR) Post #AjeDKIkB3AsnyL8j68 by maz@mastodon.online
2024-07-06T08:04:36Z
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@aral #CommonSense, #VoiceOfReason have been voided of meaning in a similar manner, being all time favourites in the conflict management phrasebook to silence dissent top down: "Y'all *just* have to calm down!"
(DIR) Post #AjeYWsqejqJeSd0kmu by TimWardCam@c.im
2024-07-06T12:02:10Z
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@aral As in the old "we're not political, we always vote Conservative".
(DIR) Post #AjfVvqvstOVV3RdC1w by schmittlauch@toot.matereal.eu
2024-07-06T11:58:21Z
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@lanodan @aral gender: bool
(DIR) Post #AjfVvro7djtNlf0VZQ by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2024-07-06T23:06:53.412131Z
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@schmittlauch @aral Well that one works, at least when implemented like in Pokemon Gameboy:> Are you a boy or a girl? [Yes] [No]The evil is when it's an enum.
(DIR) Post #Ajg9NUEklRtmzBcnK4 by spz@mastodon.sdf.org
2024-07-07T06:29:31Z
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@aral ok, so how do you say "so your polity will have elections and you care a lot, and one or two other persons on our lists may, too, but the rest of us don't live there and don't care, put a sock in about how great 'your' politician is, this is not your canvassing venue"?Just because the US right have weaponized the words "politics" to mean "everything of any societal impact" and "polite" to mean "I can harass anybody not white+male" we can't use them any more? Which can we use instead?
(DIR) Post #AjgGk6zO44VZDvAmQK by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2024-07-07T07:52:17Z
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@spz I think you misunderstand. This isn’t about turning your issue tracker into r/politics. It’s about some organisations and projects barring anything they deem “political” from affecting the decisions taken by the org/project. It stems from a particular “no politics” project rejecting gender-neutral language because it is political. In other words, it’s about orgs/projects rejecting certain people and their needs because it js deemed “political”. Which is, itself, political.
(DIR) Post #AjgGxYOLUgQVyYFyTY by kccqzy@techhub.social
2024-07-06T17:37:07Z
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@dawngreeter @waldoj @aral This reminds me why I hate politics, something that seems to consume every discussion and every topic.
(DIR) Post #AjgGxZPRi4tv8FmMpU by dawngreeter@dice.camp
2024-07-06T22:42:54Z
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@kccqzy @waldoj @aral Conversation topics are either comfortable and familiar or political.
(DIR) Post #AjgJCMNAf71Ox3tYSO by spz@mastodon.sdf.org
2024-07-07T08:19:40Z
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@aral sorry, bear with me. I'm not steeped in US usage. How do I express the one without implying the other?I want to express e.g. "I think trans/racist/gender slurs are nasty and I don't want to see them, ever" without writing a sermon and without inviting rules lawyering of the "but you didn't list this kind of nastiness"."Be polite to everybody" used to be a short expected behaviour description. It's not meant to say "you can't complain about being treated unfairly". So how?
(DIR) Post #AjgK3ipDun15w0SfRo by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2024-07-07T08:29:28Z
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@spz You express is by stating clearly, as you’ve just done, that one of the political stances your organisation/project takes is that bigotry is not allowed.
(DIR) Post #AjgXuFbAbmW22eGY52 by Zergling_man@sacred.harpy.faith
2024-07-07T11:04:58.557970Z
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@dawngreeter @aral >dice.camp>has based opinionsWhat's a guy like you doing on a place like that
(DIR) Post #AjggO1Mkt898DmEKLg by dawngreeter@dice.camp
2024-07-07T12:39:47Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Zergling_man @aral I am a lifelong RPG fan
(DIR) Post #Ajgjc2JgS1995NATke by mintplague
2024-07-07T13:16:18.319742Z
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@aral >people whose very existence is political in our societies.All self-imposed. Literally nothing stops them from contributing code without making a fuss about how they don't receive preferable treatment.
(DIR) Post #AjguRRkae9hiHIuFSy by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2024-07-07T15:17:37Z
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@mintplague You seem nice.
(DIR) Post #AjhHqWotEYxcBZqXDc by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2024-07-07T19:39:16Z
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@RachaelAva1024 For context, this is the incident that prompted my post: https://cyberpunk.lol/@vantablack/112717420300967771
(DIR) Post #AjiDN5yVl3Rzs614q0 by nekayee@furry.engineer
2024-07-08T06:23:57Z
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@aralIf you talk about politics every. single. day. you will indeed start to believe that non-political things are political. Inclusion is nowhere near a political problem. It is a social problem. Talking about the problem 24/7 isn't going to solve it. Actions solve this problem.No politics means "we don't want to hear about every single issue in the world because this project won't ever be able to solve all of them, so let's put our energy into actually making this particular program better"We should definitely do our best to make technology accessible for everyone; The recent incident with a certain project shows there is a long way ahead of us. But the problem you mentioned has nothing to do with politics, rather it is a social issue which is a very big difference.
(DIR) Post #Ajkj3nE6pFXv4V4VhA by BillySmith@social.coop
2024-07-09T11:28:25Z
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@aral The London Hackspace doesn't have a "No Politics" rule.It has a "No political conversations on the mailing list" rule.This reduces flame-wars and online arguments.What our members say to each other in-person is their own responsibility. :D