Post AjWRWSivcDo4UcZLbk by jaffathecake@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by jaffathecake@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #AjWRWSivcDo4UcZLbk by jaffathecake@mastodon.social
2024-07-02T14:06:27Z
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🔊 Are Web Components Worth It?In the latest OTMT, me and @surma look at the benefits and tradeoffs of web components, and how things could improve.⬇️ Listen here ⬇️https://offthemainthread.tech/episode/are-web-components-worth-it/
(DIR) Post #AjWSCzXlyuk6RedApM by slightlyoff@toot.cafe
2024-07-02T14:14:06Z
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@jaffathecake @surma Really wish this wasn't so revisionist. It's also kind of amazing that the comparison point in the episode is "wow, I'm not sure I like this DOM API compared to <huge library + compiler tool chain>" without any exploration of the ongoing costs to teams of the radical shifts that React has required of teams over the past few years.Also, if you want the background on Adobe Specturm / PS / etc....you know how to get a hold of me.
(DIR) Post #AjWTAPioIOXWii80Uy by DavidDarnes@mastodon.design
2024-07-02T14:24:49Z
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@jaffathecake @surma no code has been mentioned and this has already been a rollercoaster of an episode 😂
(DIR) Post #AjXelxNrOfmKUQORlI by jaffathecake@mastodon.social
2024-07-03T04:09:36Z
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@mdh @surma which bit was out of date? I've been working closely with web components recently, and filing bugs along the way eg https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/10273, so this is coming from direct experience.
(DIR) Post #AjY7RZIa8Hb8fbYRnM by jaffathecake@mastodon.social
2024-07-03T09:30:53Z
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@slightlyoff @surma but couldn't you get all those benefits with just lit-html (or Preact+htm)?I agree less toolchain is good, but it comes back as soon as you want declarative shadow DOM.
(DIR) Post #AjYWuwE2T5uP1nWz3Y by slightlyoff@toot.cafe
2024-07-03T14:16:12Z
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@jaffathecake @surma I mean, with DSD you need to agree on templates w/ the server, but that can just as easily be PHP.
(DIR) Post #AjYcIOQcHC6AvePwvo by westbrook@mastodon.social
2024-07-03T15:16:35Z
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@jaffathecake @surma Just a quick reminder that the #webComponentsCG is working on a regular basis to make #webComponents better for EVERYONE! We'd love to see you join the conversation. You can join the convo in Discord https://discord.gg/YRk5w5rJ or follow events on this Google Calendar https://calendar.google.com/calendar/u/0/embed?src=o25bim5rvcu42mfnqilirpmp44@group.calendar.google.comBringing people who are newly revisiting the APIs into the conversation with some people who've been actively driving things forward for a while can only make the work more successful! 🥂
(DIR) Post #AjYhQoDmlIBb0oFSoC by niutech@fosstodon.org
2024-07-03T16:14:04Z
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@jaffathecake @surma Why has #Google, which used to shout about web components, abandoned them along with #Polymer project? Now even #YouTube is using #Wiz framework (https://x.com/sarah_edo/status/1770478764587114528) and Material Web Components are no longer being developed (https://9to5google.com/2024/06/25/material-web-components/). What's up with Google and web components?
(DIR) Post #AjYlVzjllzeXzaw9S4 by jaffathecake@mastodon.social
2024-07-03T16:59:52Z
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@slightlyoff @surma that's true to the same degree it's true with React. You can use PHP to generate the HTML, but since JS is doing it on the client, you get better code reuse doing that on the server too
(DIR) Post #AjYlkP2QVABKW3XA0m by jaffathecake@mastodon.social
2024-07-03T17:02:30Z
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@niutech @surma neither of us work for Google so we don't really have insight there
(DIR) Post #AjYlxYwH0C72zGvli4 by slightlyoff@toot.cafe
2024-07-03T16:28:53Z
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@brianleroux @jaffathecake @surma That's wrong, but you are picking a style of WC that we explicitly designed for. If that's what you want, and you don't *actually* want the protection SD offers in the design system use-case, then don't use it!
(DIR) Post #AjYlxa1cxlzQMARYh6 by jaffathecake@mastodon.social
2024-07-03T17:04:52Z
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@slightlyoff @brianleroux @surma there's no way to make a CE that works as a <form> https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/10220
(DIR) Post #AjYqVhejUx7HgYGGVU by slightlyoff@toot.cafe
2024-07-03T17:55:51Z
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@jaffathecake @brianleroux @surma This is what form participation is for. You don't need SD for that.
(DIR) Post #AjYqY3BMR2N91jdrzk by slightlyoff@toot.cafe
2024-07-03T17:56:13Z
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@jaffathecake @brianleroux @surma I'm actually working on something in this area. Let's chat.
(DIR) Post #AjZ75mZKJBZwc6xU36 by niutech@fosstodon.org
2024-07-03T21:01:38Z
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@jaffathecake @surma But you've worked for a long time, you know fellow Googlers, so you should have some insight :)
(DIR) Post #AjZodfjOX6cjHY4eDQ by nolan@toot.cafe
2024-07-04T05:09:35Z
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@jaffathecake @surma Great episode. Very even-handed, and a lot deeper than a lot of the web components discourse out there.At Salesforce yes the whole UI is web components. Main benefit for us is that we build an evergreen platform – we change a component, we break a customer. So same constraints as the browser with <video controls> et al, so shadow DOM fits. It's not perfect, but working pretty well.
(DIR) Post #Aja0uXadFpa0PAmkwy by pepelsbey@mastodon.social
2024-07-04T07:27:07Z
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@jaffathecake @surma I just realized that the episode is missing from my podcast app’s inbox (Pocket Casts) because the release date is June 12, but the website says it’s July 1.
(DIR) Post #Aja47AEngiTRbgHiAi by thesdev@social.vivaldi.net
2024-07-04T07:52:30Z
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@pepelsbey @jaffathecake @surma same here (YouTube music)
(DIR) Post #Aja47BINksvut4y5OS by jaffathecake@mastodon.social
2024-07-04T08:03:00Z
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@thesdev @pepelsbey @surma yeah, we fucked up the publishing on this one 😀
(DIR) Post #Aja4KKEJqewSMUKqi8 by bp@social.bennypowers.com
2024-07-04T06:02:40.052Z
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@jaffathecake@mastodon.social @slightlyoff@toot.cafe @brianleroux@indieweb.social @surma@mastodon.social i did <x-form> with preventDefault and FormData in client side code 5 years ago. good old polymer had something similar, too.not exactly what you're getting at, and <x-fieldset> would be cool too, but like... "no way to make" is a bit exaggerated imo
(DIR) Post #Aja4KLM9f0ntr50cYy by jaffathecake@mastodon.social
2024-07-04T08:05:17Z
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@bp @brianleroux @surma @slightlyoff right so you're recreating the behaviour of a form from the ground up. That's a pretty big step down from <form>. We'd give other frameworks a lot of shit if that was the best it could offer.
(DIR) Post #AjaQe7YItJobpGWkgy by bkardell@toot.cafe
2024-07-04T12:15:27Z
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@jaffathecake @surma This distinction about what web components are good at or designed for definitely was a tension all along. In early 2014 we had the first Extensible Web Summit in San Francisco, it was well attended and i recall breakouts dominated by this. People wanting to compose right up to <my-app> and people saying that's not a goal or even a good idea.. On lists too, it goes back before that
(DIR) Post #AjaSMGUH8FuMEWFxaK by westbrook@mastodon.social
2024-07-04T12:34:40Z
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@jaffathecake @surma You are right that Photoshop Web is built in #webComponents at Adobe. So is Illustrator Web, Express, Podcast, Firefly, Fonts, EdEx, Content Authenticity Initiative, ad infinitum. Some of these like Firefly/Fonts/EdEx/CAI have “DOM orchestrators” like React/Angular/Vue/Svelte, which is why Adobe Spectrum has a Web Components implementation. Meaning that all of the DOM orchestrators can use the design language w/o needing to staff a team to do it right in that orchestrator.
(DIR) Post #AjalwDW5YLVKZcxfJQ by schizanon@mastodon.social
2024-07-04T16:14:03Z
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@jaffathecake @bp @brianleroux @surma @slightlyoff I used to draw rounded corners by slicing images into 9 smaller images and putting them in a table with no borders; I'll live
(DIR) Post #Ajb1MeVjJIe58VrC1A by MaxArt2501@mastodon.social
2024-07-04T19:06:51Z
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@jaffathecake @surma Finally had the chance to listen to this episode. It's interesting that you underlined how web developers usually associated the term "component" to a higher level of abstraction a-la React, and this is a source of confusion for many.The main problem with Web Components is IMO some lack of tooling. DSD is a thing but, as you said, it's not always clear how to use it. Lit has something, but it's more an exception than the rule.But overall... Definitely worth it for me 👍
(DIR) Post #AjeAo3BVAEIeXbPkem by jaffathecake@mastodon.social
2024-07-06T07:36:50Z
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@schizanon @bp @brianleroux @surma @slightlyoff same. But if there's a solution where I don't have to do stuff like that, I'll take it.
(DIR) Post #AjeBCOLy6uIH92uuyO by bp@social.bennypowers.com
2024-07-04T08:13:36.169Z
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@jaffathecake@mastodon.social @brianleroux@indieweb.social @surma@mastodon.social @slightlyoff@toot.cafe ce isn't framework though?
(DIR) Post #AjeBCP63LZ9nRyTinw by surma@mastodon.social
2024-07-04T08:17:44Z
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@bp @brianleroux @jaffathecake @slightlyoff Exactly. If I had some type form validation library, it likely wouldn't work with a custom form element like you described because it requires a custom form element implementation. Fixable, but not reality just yet.
(DIR) Post #AjeBCPkotzlbUPYHLc by jaffathecake@mastodon.social
2024-07-06T07:41:11Z
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@surma @bp @brianleroux @slightlyoff right. "Use the platform… by which we mean rebuild it all from scratch". We gave Flutter shit for this in a recent episode. I think CEs have better goals, but we should feel free to call out where they're falling short.
(DIR) Post #AjegKpZ3v9gkR0XsbQ by slightlyoff@toot.cafe
2024-07-06T13:30:05Z
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@jaffathecake @surma @bp @brianleroux It's true that we don't have enough of the lifecycle of forms (and many other things, e.g. data flow) exposed for extension and replacement today. Most of this is down to Apple going tools-down (effectively) after V1 in '15.We can and should restart the excavation now that they've been forced back to the table.
(DIR) Post #AjewAZaO4ZRtFTIPGS by jaffathecake@mastodon.social
2024-07-06T16:27:32Z
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@brianleroux @slightlyoff @surma @bp if I'm making components that can be used with any framework (or without), messing with the light-dom creates a two-owner problem, which I'm really hoping to avoid. Else it's kinda just jQuery-UI
(DIR) Post #AjewHUYn9m4pgkqgq0 by munawwar@mastodon.social
2024-07-06T16:28:48Z
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@jaffathecake @surma While you spoke about HTML imports, I was thinking we miss a nice way to import CSS without build steps.Yes a dynamic style tag or link tag can be created, but API should be nicer. Also yes, bundlers might still be needed for reducing network calls.
(DIR) Post #AjkYiQInradMLmRGkK by jaffathecake@mastodon.social
2024-07-09T09:33:00Z
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If you don't listen to OTMT, you're missing out on this kind of insight from competent professionals
(DIR) Post #AjkcyoCXAvSUvBZikq by mattwilcox@mstdn.social
2024-07-09T10:20:44Z
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@jaffathecake as it is `is`, is `as` worth aliasing as `is` so typos can be used as-is as `is`?
(DIR) Post #AjsE6JktJRujDqoC6C by bramus@front-end.social
2024-07-13T02:19:41Z
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@jaffathecake I thought you were going for an ass-joke there … 💩