Post AjO0cSpFtgH2WIUDyK by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #AjKYr2TKmTqcwGVyaG by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-26T20:32:04Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
Do you think that society is capable of transitioning from capitalism to communism with no transitional state in-between, or do you think that a transitional state is necessary to transition from capitalism to communism. Please explain your reasoning below.
(DIR) Post #AjKZMoFHD98u595ZB2 by clayrosenthal@sfba.social
2024-06-26T20:37:48Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom I think a state in some form will be needed. Whatever goal form of communism we want to end up with would likely be radically different from the status quo and there would likely need to be some organisation to help maintain the new status quo as people adjust. There’s also likely external threats that would want to revert to capitalism that would have to be defended against. Ideally this new state would dissolve sooner rather than later. Maybe a generation or two
(DIR) Post #AjKZZTASt8j8TXsJA8 by gil_bates@mastodon.top
2024-06-26T20:40:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom Do you think any communism may exist without a kind of чека, without a kind of ГУЛАГ,and without all crimes committed on its name ?
(DIR) Post #AjKZuCOkQsg0XxRMKO by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-26T20:43:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@gil_bates I don't know why you decided to confusingly use Russian words that I had to translate to understand, but you seem to be confusing some terms. Communism is a stateless, classless society, so no, there would be no police or prisons in them. I do believe that a socialist transitional state will have to have some form of police and prisons.
(DIR) Post #AjKZx4JawSJqLWOl0a by mibwright@mastodon.social
2024-06-26T20:44:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I'm voting "necessary," but only because if such a transition were to occur… it must occur in time. A society like the US's — the third largest country in the world (and in world history) — probably couldn't radically transform itself overnight.If someone showed me a plan for transitioning over one year (and I was capable of understanding it, and found no major flaws with it), I'd be amazed.But even an interim of one year would necessitate some sort of hybrid organization of resources.
(DIR) Post #AjKauyYZTr5nrTy9z6 by duckwhistle@mastodon.org.uk
2024-06-26T20:55:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom There has to be a traditional state, even if there's not a transitional State. But the only other option I can think of that has a chance of surviving external efforts at corruption, is complete societal collapse world wide.
(DIR) Post #AjKawQVV2y70q1Dygy by lawas@mastodon.social
2024-06-26T20:55:27Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom I’d say yes. I just don’t think it’s realistic to dissolve the bourgeois state and immediately proceed to statelessness. I think history shows that the forces of capital are well-organized and class conscious, so we have to be too. If we use the Marxist conception of the state, meaning that the state is a tool of class domination, I don’t see how we can avoid having a “state” of some sort during the transition to communism.
(DIR) Post #AjKcJDdPAl3LWsM1Mu by gil_bates@mastodon.top
2024-06-26T21:10:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom Come on,my purpose is not to argue. Don't worry I'm not confusing anything those words were just used to check your level of knowledge about communism in real...Btw I hope you don't seriously confuse prison with Gulag, and Police with Tcheka. If so, I advise you to study more about communism "side effects" everywhere it became a reality, not only theory.... But I won't convince you and not even trying to:) Have a nice evening
(DIR) Post #AjKfIlHWt51vSOazQW by jefebromden@mastodon.social
2024-06-26T21:44:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom Words are deceiving. People hear 'communism', and think about people living in tends. I think about someone sharing an idea through social media and put it in practicePeople think 'capitalism' should be the only economic model. I think we should use 'limitarilism' (Ingrid Robeyns) or use other models when necessaryPeople think about 'state' as a bible (the constitution). I think we should see it as a mission statement, and be ready to change it when our knowledge changes
(DIR) Post #AjKrzdccRPgfbPfhUe by fcktheworld587@social.linux.pizza
2024-06-27T00:06:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom my instinct says that we'll need a state, but I'm pretty sure that's just my prejudices speaking, since I've never lived without a state. That said, if we're to decouple from nationalism and abolish the state - really what has to happen is for it just to happen. I'll probably never feel ready to take off the training wheels. And again, I fear should the state collapse, the next most well-organized group of psychopaths will just fill the ensuing power vacuum
(DIR) Post #AjKvnl9l0BQrJOlN32 by blaise@fosstodon.org
2024-06-27T00:49:12Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom The value chain in Capitalism is biased toward extracting value from the organization (farm, factory, etc) to an external share holder. So there is no feedback loop to support investment back into the organization. That is why, under capitalism, workers are recorded as an expense and accounting does not have a way to record the benefits of improvements or maintenance.So a switch with no transitions does not take into consideration these adjustments (which are micro economics)
(DIR) Post #AjKxhi3ZoUkFrx7CDI by blaise@fosstodon.org
2024-06-27T01:01:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom The discrepancy becomes more obvious when you study the work of Deming and his students. In fact, his research led to a change in accounting rules (in the USA) so that inventory would be recorded as a liability rather than an expense. This resulted in the adoption of Just-In-Time supply chains.1/?
(DIR) Post #AjKxhjG1LiIFapweFU by blaise@fosstodon.org
2024-06-27T01:05:58Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom Deming's work is more enduring in Japan because of their insular identity and emphasis on systems thinking and long term results.In the USA, tribalism and a rapacious attitude toward natural and human resources make it more difficult for people to defer rewards and trust that the state will hold up their responsibilities.My intuition is that #cooperative business or #cooperation in general may provide the infrastructure to support a transition towards communism.2/?
(DIR) Post #AjKyfnELhrgxI3ntfE by blaise@fosstodon.org
2024-06-27T01:15:41Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom When I learned that Arizmendi was able to start a coop business in Franco's Spain, I knew transition is possible! https://youtu.be/wY15lTGdaQ0?si=vbXyX9pyyC448cKq&t=634When I found out that his coop became Grupo Mondragon, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporationit gave me the conviction to want to start a tech worker coop in the US.
(DIR) Post #AjLKkTTInKn8RtR3DM by comrade_paolog@mastodon.uno
2024-06-27T05:28:42Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom after the overthrow of capitalism classes still exist, so a state of the proletariat is necessary in order to create a classless society (if the proletariat doesn't organize, the bourgeoisie would and capitalism would be reestablished)
(DIR) Post #AjMKvWmwzsqn4zr9f6 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-27T17:05:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sundiesel Just because stateless societies have existed in the past doesn't mean that it would be sufficient to immediately transition into statelessness, and just because there have been unfavorable transitional states in the past doesn't mean a transitional state isn't needed to transition into statelessness. There will need to be some state to repress counter-revolution by making counter-revolution illegal. Removing the state immediately would allow reactionism to spring up.
(DIR) Post #AjMMeijtVlLJ85XYau by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-27T17:24:13Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sundiesel As long as the bourgeois state exists, any kind of attempt to pursue proletarian liberation or statelessness will be impossible, so the bourgeois state has to be removed, but as I previously stated, immediate abolition of the state will inevitably result in the rise of reactionism, which will need to be repressed in order for the goal of a stateless society to be achieved, ergo, some kind of proletarian state dedicated to achieving statelessness will have to exist in this period.
(DIR) Post #AjMP2eOlVAHcWcCC3M by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-27T17:49:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundiesel I think we already talked about that. It's not just immediate revolution and your idea of transitional state. We already have transitional societies which are not states. Also my personal praxis is prefiguration, which does not require a state and which actually creates dual power. It's main advantage is that it's actually consistent with what I want to achieve without any compromises.
(DIR) Post #AjMPhr7P77X3qeiuDQ by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-27T17:58:32Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@nlupo @sundiesel Prefiguration isn't going to be enough. People can live according to anarchist principles as much as they want in the present, and I'm not necessarily against them doing so, but none of that is going to eliminate the threat of counter-revolution and reactionism in a post-capitalist society, which is where a transitional socialist state would come into play to repress counter-revolution and reactionism.
(DIR) Post #AjMQUci7TE7BLw9Pdo by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-27T18:07:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundiesel So you think in a bolshevik state (like how Bulgaria and The Soviet Union were) there were no any contra revolutionaries? The state itself become contra revolutionary and just started imprisoning people which they don't like. If you think we as an anarchists do not have any anti-reactionary measures, you have no idea. The lack of hierarchies actually makes easier to spot such kind of people.
(DIR) Post #AjMRcFc1KjK1z9Uzz6 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-27T18:18:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @sundiesel The potentiality of a transitional state becoming counter-revolutionary doesn't negate its necessity to combat counter-revolution, and I fail to see how having no hierarchies of any kind will make it easier to deal with reactionism. If there are no hierarchies whatsoever to make illegal reactionism, the spreading of reactionary ideologies, reactionary movements, reactionary parties, etc, then reactionism is bound to re-emerge. Some levels of coercion will be needed.
(DIR) Post #AjMSWaV2rSDoz26FYu by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-27T18:30:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundiesel The issue with hierarchies is that most reactionaries are power hungry people. They will just go on a position where they can do what they want and then it will be too late to do something. They won't say "hey I'm the bad guy" and you can't catch them.When you don't have any hierarchies, there will no such power positions and the only way for them to achieve something is to speak openly and then you can bring them to justice infront of everyone.
(DIR) Post #AjMTZ1FaTQcGTyaoc4 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-27T18:40:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @sundiesel Once again, the potentiality of a hierarchy, a transitional state in this case, becoming reactionary does not negate the necessity of a transitional state, and as I also stated, having no hierarchy that would illegalize reactionism and counter-revolution in a post-capitalist society will guarantee the emergence of those two forces.
(DIR) Post #AjMUsdYgMySCkURVse by jmanes@mastodon.world
2024-06-27T18:56:48Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom I see this more as “a state is inevitable” rather than “necessary”, though this is mostly semantics. The power structure of the state already exists, and it is the most powerful tool in human history. It will be immediately seized and weaponized by the ruling class if it is not first taken by the proletariate in order to be safely dismantled. Much like you cannot safely abandon a nuclear reactor; you must safely dispose of it.
(DIR) Post #AjMxmdkFezlEGELZ0y by grumble209@techhub.social
2024-06-28T00:20:49Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom We've got generations of citizens with no practical experience working together, instead demanding that some authority resolve conflicts and problems. And that's just for social issues. Democracy skills in the workplace are even less developed.It'll take time to unlearn bad habits and learn better ones.
(DIR) Post #AjN9vYVlgeD05Ladt2 by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T02:36:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundiesel The issue is that it's inevitable and you can't prevent it. Legality does not matter if you are the one in power.
(DIR) Post #AjNB3jwTAhr5o8Xu4m by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T02:49:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @sundiesel If by "it," you mean reactionism, it will inevitably spring up, but it can be prevented from growing and destroying the revolution with the aid of a transitional state to repress it wherever it props up.>"Legality does not matter if you are the one in power."< — I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
(DIR) Post #AjNQJPkLWaGZ7No7LE by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T05:40:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundiesel About the first:Like I said, you can't do that with a state.About the second: The law is just a text, and to ban something just means to write somewhere, that something is undesirable. That won't prevent it from happening. The people who apply the law are the people on the top of the pyramid. That means no matter what laws you write against people in power, it won't work, because they are the people who decide what's lawful.
(DIR) Post #AjNovcC45oMbcsWMeO by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T10:16:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @sundiesel You can suppress reactionism with a state. You can do it by making the promotion of reactionism punishable in various ways. The law is the enforcement of societal rules by a state. It isn't "just a text," as you put it.A democratic government with multiple mechanisms to prevent one or a few people from having absolutely impunity from the law can absolutely make laws against people in power.
(DIR) Post #AjNpsMnuxCeeywF1Hs by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T10:26:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundieselYou don't need a state to promote something. The state is the worst possible tool for that. The law does not apply for the people who enforce the law, because they decide what's the law, and that was my main argument. Only liberals believe such bullshit, that you actually can command your rulers. If that was true people like Trump will be behind bars long time ago.
(DIR) Post #AjNsbXk1KuuxqI5Vx2 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T10:57:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @sundiesel 1/2 The state is the best tool for promotion in the context that I'm speaking. If one is to promote anti-reactionism as an ideal for society to abide by, promoting it through a complex system of individuals with a hierarchy and authority that allows them promote it to the fullest extent would be the best method to use.
(DIR) Post #AjNseEeSlehVVPlvyS by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T10:57:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @sundiesel 2/2 A state can be constructed in such a way where those who enforce the law can be held to the same standards of the law as everyone else by dispersing power and not allowing decision-making power to be concentrated to any single individual, but for decisions to be made collectively with as much democracy as feasible at all levels of society.
(DIR) Post #AjNtGLfv6Qv4IDcxoO by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T11:04:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundieselAd makers are the most obvious example for best promoters and the state ads almost suck. The state is just monopoly on violence, not a PR company.Who will apply these standards?Pick one either there is no hierarchies and everyone have the same power (then we don't have a state) or we have hierarchies and the law is applied ondly for the common people. You can't have both.
(DIR) Post #AjNuJEBBWnjLrtBiwC by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T11:16:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @sundiesel The state is indeed a monopoly of violence by the ruling class, but it can also be a "PR company" (if you want to call it that) by using its power tonpromote certain ideals, and its success at this will wholly depend on the effectiveness of the people running the state. Your second paragraph is a false dichotomy. There can be a state with restrictions that prevent a person or people from gaining autocratic rule and measures to ensure that the law is applied to everyone.
(DIR) Post #AjNvy7OBmLQGdTKgKm by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T11:35:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundiesel The state can be a PR company, like a bus can be a sports car. It kinda does the job, but not really. If you want to promote something, just do propaganda. It's simple and it works.Again, who will apply this standards? There is an old Roman saying "Who will watch the watchmen?" So, it's not a false dichotomy. There is no mechanism by which you can control your rulers. And if that was true you won't need communism, but just social democracy.
(DIR) Post #AjNx2W5PzreoLTDK9w by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T11:47:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @sundiesel Doing the necessary propaganda needed to curb the rise of reactionism without the power and authority of a state would be unnecessarily more difficult due to having less power and influence to do so.These standards would be made collectively through democracy, and there are mechanisms to control people who have state power, such as regular elections, independent judiciaries, high evels of government transparency, etc.
(DIR) Post #AjNxc3HIaD91QGiQ1w by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T11:53:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundiesel Doing that you will make them a service, making them martyrs. That's the worse possible idea.Democracy has nothing to do with law application. I can make a vote to make a garden in obit of Alpha Centaury, but that won't automatically give me the power to do it.
(DIR) Post #AjNxyxSkN22c2yzc1I by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T11:57:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @sundiesel >"Doing that you will make them a service, making them martyrs. That's the worse possible idea."< — I have no idea what this means.A democratic governments application of law does have much to do with democracy. The very application of laws in such a state solely depends on democracy.
(DIR) Post #AjO00ASTjpSuYBZVsO by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T12:20:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundiesel it means, you will just make yourself the bad guy. You can't make yourself to look good by force.That's a non-answer. What will stop the people in power to make decisions in their favor?
(DIR) Post #AjO0cSpFtgH2WIUDyK by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T12:27:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @sundiesel Using state propaganda doesn't make one the "bad guy." The use of authority to promote propaganda, especially if it's against something as bad as reactionism, doesn't make the state bad. I've already partially explained what would prevent people in power from making decisions only in their favor. Things like government transparency, regular elections, independent judiciaries, and various other mechanisms.
(DIR) Post #AjO40HAHCgDNAOMghU by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T13:05:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundiesel I hope you don't actually believe you can force someone to like you.If you have answered I would not ask you. You just said something vague and when I asked you clarify, you just said "I have answered you."
(DIR) Post #AjO4TGA40sn4S75OM4 by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T13:10:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundiesel Let's make it simple. Imagine the scenario when there is a cop who gets a better reputation for catching more fascists. So they decide to pick several random guys including you.What will you do to stop that if you have your transitional state?
(DIR) Post #AjO5RVZjphbDdKp8QC by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T13:21:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @sundiesel I'd be arrested, be given a lawyer, and be put on trial where the plaintiff (the cop) tries to prove that I am a fascist by presenting whatever evidence they have. If they succeed, then I'll face the penalty for being a fascist. If they fail, then I'll be released, and not only would the cop's reliability be put into question, but they may even face legal consequences for falsely accusing someone of a crime and maybe even perjury if the false accusation was made under oath.
(DIR) Post #AjO6ibZcsvNf76UI5o by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T13:35:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundiesel so you will be just fine to sleep in the arest then until the judge decides to see your case, and that's not fast. After that it will be just your word against their word. The cop can make up stuff and will be more trusted because they are the law and they even can plant some neo-nazi literature in your room. In such case you will be in disadvantage.Also you can't prove that you are not fascist, like you can't prove you are not Batman for an examle.
(DIR) Post #AjO6pSQnH5qKmmcjpY by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T13:36:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundiesel There is nothing visible or obvious telling whether you are a fascist or not.
(DIR) Post #AjO880ouFwTibkJVku by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T13:51:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @sundiesel The way the law would work in this transitional state would be similar (not the same) to how it works now: innocent until proven guilty. It won't be up to me to prove my innocents; it would be up to the plaintiff to prove that I'm guilty, and if they can't they I'll be found not guilty. Also, the court could examine my past behavior to substantiate whether it would be likely that I we're a fascist or not, even if evidence is planted in my possession.
(DIR) Post #AjOEBGPVLcPRYPMkIC by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T14:59:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundiesel Judging by what happened in the past in the US with any ban or the communist persecution (we had a similar thing in Bulgaria but for American spies and fascists), you won't have a fair trail, because the heads on the top want results.
(DIR) Post #AjOEnJuEnbfZOqt6Cu by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T15:06:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @sundiesel Now, this is just meaningless speculation. There's no way for you to definitely know if I'd have a fair trial. I could have a fair trial, and I also might not have a fair trial depending on various factors
(DIR) Post #AjOEzzTU4fIRnUPpdA by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T15:08:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @sundiesel My point is that power can be easily abused and it happened historically and continues to happen for some minorities even in the so called most democratic countries.
(DIR) Post #AjOFH8rKR4zBpGkNsW by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T15:11:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @sundiesel If that is your point, then I agree with it.
(DIR) Post #AjOWrLZMM6BqtLBxdA by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T18:28:32Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@bugsong @nlupo @sundiesel The use of a state, authority, and yes, also coercive methods against ideological enemies is a necessary requirement in achieving a stateless and classless society. A transition into communism immediately after the abolition of capitalism is not practical, as counter-revolutionary forces will still exist and would seek to reinstate the old system. Therefore, a revolutionary state controlled by a vanguard party is necessary in order to use state power to repress...
(DIR) Post #AjOWt7wXzI69D6t22q by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T18:28:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bugsong @nlupo @sundiesel ...any and all counter-revolutionary movements in order for the revolution to stay on its intended path. I know that such a transitional state could potentially be coopted by revisionist and reactionist, as has happened in the past, but these potential problems are not evidence that a transitional state is not necessary. These are problems that need to be dealt with in order to prevent revisionism and reactionism within the transitional state because, for the...
(DIR) Post #AjOWuOyO9nVmJhM7No by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T18:29:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bugsong @nlupo @sundiesel ...reasons I listed above, this transitional state is an absolute necessity for a successful revolution, and such problems can be dealt with through extensive levels of democracy within the state, having a clearly written and well thought out constitution to guide the state away from revisionism and reactionism, and multiple legal checks and balances to stifle any attempts at reactionism or revisionism.
(DIR) Post #AjOnUacDwjjC7JGYHA by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T21:34:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @bugsong @sundiesel In the end you will end like the bolsheviks, because I don't see any difference. In the end either you will become a tyrant or someone else will do it.
(DIR) Post #AjOnmkSE6YmRqNFT1M by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T21:38:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @bugsong @sundiesel That's just an unsubstantiated assertion, and I can't really do anything with that. My beliefs are based on logic and evidence, not speculations.
(DIR) Post #AjOrKmBEUh1auADWW8 by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T22:17:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @bugsong @sundiesel t's not baseless assertion, but opinon based on hierarchical criticism, ethical consistency and history. imo you try to thread two paths simultaneously.
(DIR) Post #AjOrRlouEP2Zob6oyG by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T22:19:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bugsong @nlupo @sundiesel 1/2 Prisons, police, and a transitional state aren't only beneficial to a successful communist revolutions, but they are absolutely necessary for the transition into communism. They are beneficial and necessary due to the need to combat counter-revolution. This isn't a children's story. Counter-revolutionaries will arise after the abolition of capitalism, and they aren't going to be able to be convinced into joining the revolution. That isn't how the real world works
(DIR) Post #AjOrUtBbIis5WsDAdk by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T22:19:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bugsong @nlupo @sundiesel 2/2 If we view this from a pragmatic/logical perspective, it becomes obvious that some sort of institution that uses force, threats, and coercion to prevent counter-revolution from occurring will be needed (a state), as well as the making of counter-revolution unpermitted (illegal), a group of people dedicated to preventing counter-revolution (police), and a place to separate counter-revolutionaries and other dangerous individuals from the population (prisons).
(DIR) Post #AjOsFmvsMyAxkDDfrU by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T22:28:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @bugsong @sundiesel I don't care what your opinion is, I care about facts and logic, and the reality of literally every revolution in history shows that counter-revolutionaries will likely never be stopped without laws making their activity illegal, constant and vigilant policing of potential counter-revolution, and some way to separate these and other dangerous individuals from the rest of the population
(DIR) Post #AjOsMNoEAy4vqvmqDw by a7@boymoder.biz
2024-06-28T22:29:28.335764Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @nlupo @bugsong @sundiesel so like, putting them in special camps, where they can work, and concentrate
(DIR) Post #AjOsp6QNtGFGKjKRpA by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T22:34:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@a7 @bugsong @sundiesel @nlupo How would you suggest dealing with counter-revolutionaries in a post-capitalist, socialist society?
(DIR) Post #AjOt9jq93PoKN0Da2y by a7@boymoder.biz
2024-06-28T22:38:19.846677Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @bugsong @sundiesel @nlupo i gave the solution, you put them in camps, i mean thats what every radical society does from far left to far right to martial. does talking about putting them in camps while using the word concentrate make you uncomfortable? thats essentially what you were suggesting , separating them - some sort of camp.
(DIR) Post #AjOtEhWH6ovOcZI3pw by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T22:39:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @bugsong @sundiesel That's nothing to do with logic. You haven't provided any convincing evidence so far.How you can know who is dangerous and who is not? Who is to say who is dangerous and who is not? How we can be sure the people enforcing that are not trying to get an advantage of everyone else?And don't just say "democracy will solve everything", because that looks like a wishful thinking and nothing specific.
(DIR) Post #AjOtNwW4ikEPjsbUZs by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T22:40:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@a7 @bugsong @sundiesel @nlupo Do you have some sort of point, or did you just comment to basically call me a Nazi?
(DIR) Post #AjOtQrkssYclqDvNI0 by a7@boymoder.biz
2024-06-28T22:41:29.170054Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @bugsong @sundiesel @nlupo i simply agreed with you and suggested putting them all in camps
(DIR) Post #AjOtvLzR21GiIfGgMq by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T22:47:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @bugsong @sundiesel I'm not going to repeat myself anymore. Just re-read my comments from earlier, or, probably better, just read Marxist-Leninist literature for yourself because such books basically say what I've been talking about but in much more detail, and it would be far more productive than trying to get answers to your questions in a thread from someone who isn't an expert like someone like Lenin or Engles.
(DIR) Post #AjOvBtMqnm4cPGfdLs by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-28T23:01:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @bugsong @sundiesel If something is objective as you claim I don't need to be dogmatic in order to come to that conclusion. All I've seen so far was everything but convincing.
(DIR) Post #AjOwcnDtr2317gsJeq by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-28T23:17:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @bugsong @sundiesel I didn't say anything about being dogmatic. Just read some Marx, Engels, and Lenin books. Even if you aren't convinced afterward, at least you'll have an understanding of where I'm coming from.
(DIR) Post #AjPUCyXgXord8nzSsK by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-29T05:33:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @bugsong @sundiesel You don't need to say that, you just need to act like that. If you say "This and this person said so and so, therefore that's true (or correct)" is dogmatism. If you really understand Marx and Engels you don't need to send me to read them in order to understand your point, you just can explain why you think so and you will address all my concerns and quesions.
(DIR) Post #AjPkJp6fchNnAcdqAS by ebiman@troet.cafe
2024-06-29T08:34:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom Personally I think, a middle ground would be the desired goal. There are single aspects of capitalism that are able to utilize basic human urges (like greed) and use them to generate benefit for society as a whole. To be clear: In think current societies all over the world are far too capitalist. Things like: amount of personal wealth, inheritance don’t have to be removed, but should be capped.
(DIR) Post #AjPtQpDyTzRF9NTIw4 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-29T10:16:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bugsong @nlupo @sundiesel Any option for "dealing with reactionism" that doesn't involve completely removing reactionism from having any influence in a society, not allowing reactionist ideology from being propagated, and not tolerating reactionism or reactionaries in any capacity increases the likelihood of reactionism growing to a degree that would be detrimental to revolution. The only way such rules would be enacted is through force because the reactionaries aren't just gonna accept them.
(DIR) Post #AjPtxdwdRPjJiu0gwC by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-29T10:22:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nlupo @bugsong @sundiesel I already did attempt to explain my beliefs to you in very explicit detail multiple times, but you said you weren't convinced for some reason. I can either continue to repeat myself over and over to someone who's already refused to accept what I'm saying and continue this now meaningless conversation, or I can just suggest they read books that explain my beliefs in far more words and in greater detail. Just read the books if you're interested.
(DIR) Post #AjPubIGTSy6G4ECF7I by CableSt@mastodon.social
2024-06-29T10:29:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom Public services - health, libraries, etc., need some form of democratic statism.
(DIR) Post #AjPuiyZ2b1mZHeXn8q by nlupo@xno.social
2024-06-29T10:30:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @bugsong @sundiesel What worse than the possibility to give more power to the reactionaries very easily?Here is how:1. Pretend that you are an ally2. Win a higer position through populism3. Destroy your opponents and prevent the revolution.You give them what they need on a platter.