Post Aj41XKigpglJh32F3A by DamonHD@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by DamonHD@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #Aj3iskpj2YkddQpKS0 by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T17:34:20Z
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I got a (polite) email recently suggesting that a comic of mine might be antisemitic, and I thought it'd be nice to hear other opinions. For the record, I am Jewish, and thus liable to be antisemitic, however the claim was that by presenting Jesus as supplanting "original God" I was participating in a long-standing claim that Judaism is incomplete.I can see how that might annoy a Jewish person, but not how it'd be antisemitic? If that's the standard, everyone's antisemitic.
(DIR) Post #Aj3izcAfe126nStYbQ by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T17:35:35Z
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In other words, to my mind antisemitism is the belief that Jews in particular are inferior or evil or other stereotypes. I had never come across anyone claiming that disbelieving the theology was offensive. Possibly it'd be antisemitic, or at least quite dickish, to run into a synagogue and shout "YOU KNOW THIS ALL GOT CLEANED UP BY CHRIST, RIGHT?" But of course, that's what actual Christians believe, no?
(DIR) Post #Aj3j4GC2mjFw57kijA by raineyday@mstdn.games
2024-06-18T17:36:24Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Which comic is this, mishpacha?
(DIR) Post #Aj3j9Hc0w9ovvjILsu by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T17:37:19Z
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It's just an email but this strikes me as a kind of terrifying standard, which, having once seen it, I start to see in other places. The conflation of disagreement with hatred, when humans are often at their best when disagreeing without hatred.
(DIR) Post #Aj3jD5HGjrSApjP7JY by dmerej@mamot.fr
2024-06-18T17:37:57Z
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@ZachWeinersmith > humans are often at their best when disagreeing without hatred.So true ...
(DIR) Post #Aj3jGala7VddMaFtBo by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T17:38:38Z
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@raineyday https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/god-3
(DIR) Post #Aj3jKcv83NoxCae2mO by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T17:39:22Z
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For the record, the older portion of the Bible is way better. More action, more poetry. New testament is a lot of OK letters and accounts that don't square, with middling quality miracles. But I don't think I'm anti anyone for thinking that!
(DIR) Post #Aj3jTVyNFooMGDOups by derle@framapiaf.org
2024-06-18T17:40:57Z
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@ZachWeinersmith More believable character too. New Testament is "nobody is this nice", Tanak is "People are so awful that it has to be true"
(DIR) Post #Aj3ja7xquo0bpKJHwe by venya@musicians.today
2024-06-18T17:42:09Z
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@ZachWeinersmith @raineyday I feel like this is a wonderful starting point for discussing some actual theological conundra with my kidsonce I stop laughing
(DIR) Post #Aj3jmyFQLv29SKeYqW by raineyday@mstdn.games
2024-06-18T17:44:30Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I don't see any antisemitism, just good old-fashioned biblical satire. As an atheist Jew, offense is the furthest thing from my mind.
(DIR) Post #Aj3k64u7pP6RbQnmfQ by mattmcirvin@mathstodon.xyz
2024-06-18T17:47:55Z
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@ZachWeinersmith There's a specific Christian thing called supersessionism which is the belief that Christians are now in some sense the new Jews, replacing Jews 1.0 as God's chosen. That's bound up in a lot of really ugly antisemitism and it's probably what your correspondent was sensitive to.
(DIR) Post #Aj3kJm2ImB6X8e9nma by rrb@allthingstech.social
2024-06-18T17:50:25Z
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@ZachWeinersmith @raineyday As an old friend of mine liked to say "If they can't take a joke, F... em."
(DIR) Post #Aj3kMkotkpJ4EeJD4i by donw@mastodon.coffee
2024-06-18T17:50:50Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I’m inclined to be okay with the position “saying your religion is the only correct one is Bad” but I think you’re right to conclude that if this is antisemitic then everything is.Certainly “Jews are wrong because they don’t recognize Jesus as the savior” underpins a lot of justifications for antisemitism. But if we buy it as antisemitic then is judeaism’s “Jesus was a prophet but not the son of god” anti-Christian?
(DIR) Post #Aj3kOeDlGBiKLdqDZY by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T17:51:18Z
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@mattmcirvin I can see that but I guess I don't see why supersessionism on its own would be antisemitic. Like there are about 4 billion baptist groups that think they're the only Christians.
(DIR) Post #Aj3kWWnmjAUTegRsTQ by SalusaSecondus@wandering.shop
2024-06-18T17:52:42Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Is it antisemitic? No.Do I think it is funny? Yes.Is it funny because of some antisemitic tropes we've absorbed? Yes.I think that replacing the original god is not the issue though. (Two Jews, three opinions.) To me the problem is that it takes as given that the Hebrew God was all smite and destruction and that Christianity replaced it with a loving god. This unquestioned assumption is the problem.Finally? Do I have a problem with the comic? Absolutely not.
(DIR) Post #Aj3l1bn2ETse6NuzL6 by Eliot_L@social.coop
2024-06-18T17:58:19Z
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@ZachWeinersmith @raineyday I'm also Jewish (Atheist) and this seems like as perfectly accurate portrayal of the god of the Hebrew Bible. Hilarious strip btw.I think this person is being overly sensitive. I think you can criticize the state of Israel without being antisemitic also. I don't like it when people use antisemitism as a shield against any form of criticism.
(DIR) Post #Aj3lEMwyiWpfqHeb9k by ketmorco@fosstodon.org
2024-06-18T18:00:37Z
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@ZachWeinersmith https://www.bible.com/bible/296/JDG.4.17-21.GNBUK Jael is definitely one of the best
(DIR) Post #Aj3lHa78EOCFXOw16u by mansr@society.oftrolls.com
2024-06-18T18:01:09Z
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@ZachWeinersmith @raineyday Are the four kids of the human or goat variety?
(DIR) Post #Aj3lXNgmC9PhdS8o5Y by Onymous@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T18:04:05Z
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@ZachWeinersmith @raineyday Ah. Yeah. So they're reading this as part of the tradition of christian characterization that "jewish god is a vengeful piece of shit"/"christian god is loving and merciful"/"jesus saved us from [the jewish] god"/"how could you deny that jesus is an upgrade to your god"Obviously you do a lot of "god is an asshole" comics but most of them don't slip in jesus as "better"
(DIR) Post #Aj3lsju0nihMbuW4XI by DrorBedrack@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T18:07:46Z
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@ZachWeinersmith it's antisemitic in a very narrow, religious, out-of-date manner. Like, if it was the middle-ages and you were saying it, then it would have been antisemitic. But now? No.
(DIR) Post #Aj3oifn5X6VEpDAZ9c by darcher@hachyderm.io
2024-06-18T18:39:43Z
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@ZachWeinersmith this is why I started using Judenhass to distinguish "traditional" antisemitism from what gets called antisemitic now.For the foreseeable future it's going to be impossible to talk about some of the things that are actually happening without getting acussed of antisemitism, so we're going to need terms that clearly preserve the distinction between anti-Zionism and antiseitism.
(DIR) Post #Aj3ojnFVHxEOFJzjWa by lelandpaul@techhub.social
2024-06-18T18:39:56Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Practicing Christian here, so very much not an arbiter of what is or isn’t antisemitic, but: I’ve seen this (the belief that supersessionism is inherently antisemitic) crop up more and more in progressive Christian spaces, to the point that I know churches that actively try to eliminate all supersessionist language from their liturgy. Which is, uh, hard to do given that it’s all through the New Testament.I understand the argument that it’s been used to justify some awful things; I just think it’s possible to believe this to be true within the context of Christianity and not true outside of it. Holding that kind of duality is already essential to lots of progressive Christian theologies so I don’t see why this should be any different
(DIR) Post #Aj3p835w1hEALB5KPw by obeto@mas.to
2024-06-18T18:44:18Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Bullshit.
(DIR) Post #Aj3pxImJTVqNkcLX3A by GraniteGeek@newsie.social
2024-06-18T18:53:34Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Have you tried the Koran? Tough read.
(DIR) Post #Aj3slotWXcfNkGw4Tw by Crell@phpc.social
2024-06-18T19:25:04Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Well I find it hilarious, as an ex-Jew. (Though I think it intersects with Good Omens Season 2, which had an episode on Job.)
(DIR) Post #Aj3t1oP08hgEqsHhdA by Crell@phpc.social
2024-06-18T19:27:58Z
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@ZachWeinersmith This is the new standard of discourse, sadly. If you don't agree you're anti-[American|Jewish|Christian|Women|Gay|Immigrants]/TERF/whatever epithet is popular today.
(DIR) Post #Aj3u237NWhXARiicQS by Threadbane@newsie.social
2024-06-18T19:39:15Z
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@ZachWeinersmith The Old Testament is an oral history laced with magic beings, along the lines of Homer. The New Testament is a total fiction, almost like fantasy, written by individuals over a period of centuries (Mary doesn't become a virgin until the 4th Century AD) by people who knew nothing about 1st Century Roman history or law or Judaism. Herod never killed the first born Jewish sons; Jews would remember this, but they don't. Roman's did not require people to go ANYWHERE to pay taxes.
(DIR) Post #Aj41XKigpglJh32F3A by DamonHD@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T21:03:21Z
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@ZachWeinersmith The standard cannot be that antisemitism is holding any view that someone who happens to be Jewish happens to disagree with.
(DIR) Post #Aj42kbDWuHt2ZtLkvI by black_flag@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T21:16:57Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I think you'll find plenty of "accounts that don't square up" in the Tanakh Zach. Try reading Kings then Chronicles.
(DIR) Post #Aj448Ef4WJQtWi4DQW by glutto@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T21:32:26Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Recently there has been legislation passed which redefines antisemitism. From what, and to what, is beyond me. However, it seems to be a different flavor of the old "you're with us or you're against us" line that's been used since forever.
(DIR) Post #Aj44piyRh8qVzVrkvI by ViciousBabushka@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T21:40:18Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Christians believe that they are the "One True Faith" and if you are a Jew, a Muslim, a Hindu, a Buddhist, or an atheist, you are going to Hell. This has caused a lot of problems for Jewish people over the millennia of living among Christian majority countries. What is driving many Christians in the US today is the belief that they have to convert everybody in the whole world so Jesus can return. It's actually worse than antisemitism because it affects all non Christians.
(DIR) Post #Aj49wYDAbj9QPSpNVQ by dogzilla@masto.deluma.biz
2024-06-18T22:37:32Z
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@ZachWeinersmith @juandesant Personally, I suspect “anti-semitism” is being used as a cudgel now, often inappropriately and in bad faith. I think It’s great you asked a community for a gut-check, but I think you have to ultimately trust yourself
(DIR) Post #Aj4CtWAw1Lll5Z1lxo by neatnit@fosstodon.org
2024-06-18T23:10:37Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Which comic?
(DIR) Post #Aj5Kz4ZMZ8Ks00ZbSy by kentwillard@zirk.us
2024-06-19T12:15:59Z
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@ZachWeinersmith The 10 commandments is much more popular with Christians than the Beatitudes. I suspect the 10 C's are more popular with Christians than Jews too.Remember this when you start your new religion.
(DIR) Post #Aj5LILpebiPn2aNzGa by kentwillard@zirk.us
2024-06-19T12:19:26Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Isaac Newton thought the Trinity was nonsense unsupported by scripture.You weren't antisemitic, you were Newtonian.
(DIR) Post #Aj5dAapkkKMsQRsmOm by 0shame@eldritch.cafe
2024-06-19T15:39:41Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I felt a bit uncomfy about that comic but not more than that. The idea that God's covenant with the Jewish people is replaced by Jesus's covenant with the world is called supersessionism. I wouldn't say that it strictly must be antisemitic, but it often takes an antisemitic form. For instance, many Christians claim that the church, and not the Jewish people, is the "true Israel." That seems antisemitic in the same way that it would be racist if a bunch of Irish people started claiming that they were the real Koreans, and that all those people from Korea are just confused and behind the times. Since the holocaust, a lot of Christian denominations have abandoned or at least softened their supersessionist teachings because they could be seen as antisemitic.
(DIR) Post #Aj6xUVKF7z3XNJsM5I by cai@mastodon.social
2024-06-20T07:02:09Z
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@ZachWeinersmith @mattmcirvin I am curious as to whether supersessionism is today used to justify oppression of Jews.I’ve not heard of it being (though I’m willing to to learn I’m wrong), so I suspect this is rather an example of someone who learned about supersessionism as a *historically* antisemitic idea, then recognised the comic could be interpreted as supersessionist, and completed in their mind to “therefore antisemitic”.
(DIR) Post #AjESPcmrfAaEK137j6 by levisan@qoto.org
2024-06-23T21:51:28Z
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@ZachWeinersmith As a practicing member of the Christian faith, I agree with you. If basic Christian doctrine is anti-semetic, then that's a terrifying standard (and maybe waters down how bad actual anti-semites have been)