Post AitH2jBeLhpgleInXk by Scmurcott@ioc.exchange
(DIR) More posts by Scmurcott@ioc.exchange
(DIR) Post #AitErC1V6vnaonvXay by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-06-13T16:10:37Z
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I don’t buy the theory that psilocybin somehow caused human civilization to develop. My issues:1. How could something used only by a few even today have such a big impact?2. Some people find themselves in altered states naturally; why are the mushrooms needed?3. is this solving a “problem” that doesn’t exist? It’s not mysterious it took time for complex societies to form. Life is hard, full of set backs. Couldn’t it be for once the weather was nice & not everyone got eaten by bears?
(DIR) Post #AitF4lCvbjeBhmk2fQ by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-06-13T16:13:07Z
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I can easily imagine people, just at as brilliant as modern humans stumbling along for 100,000 years. You only get the tech your family knows— you are a rare endangered animal and very hungry and preoccupied with staying warm, finding food— other people from other groups are a mixed bag and huge risk. It must have been a slog.
(DIR) Post #AitFTtDqwg7hnp9mPg by ReverendMoose@mas.to
2024-06-13T16:17:42Z
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@futurebird anyone who disagrees with point 2 and says it was only one way to reach altered states, such as psilocybin are definitely missing something. Now whether mind altering substances, including alcohol, heavily influenced culture and civilization is an interesting question though, and I think there's something there.
(DIR) Post #AitFcqXCJCMu4XTZ7Q by Gurre@mastodon.nu
2024-06-13T16:19:17Z
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@futurebird and hasn't living precariously been shown to have serious effects on planning and decision making?The stone age wasn't some paradise. It was living on the edge in many ways a lot of the time.
(DIR) Post #AitFpI1JwVZwnEV0c4 by complexmath@hachyderm.io
2024-06-13T16:21:29Z
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@futurebird McKenna's ideas all sounds to me like he did way too many psychedelics and just kind of wants to be a cult leader.
(DIR) Post #AitFynkNLwalnX6o76 by sozialwelten@ifwo.eu
2024-06-13T16:23:12Z
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@futurebird I haven't heard of that theory before, do you have a link? Since there are no brains available for studying that are old enough, it probably is impossible to conclusively detetmine whether or not this theory holds true.
(DIR) Post #AitGBcOYs0WAM616zA by llewelly@sauropods.win
2024-06-13T16:25:34Z
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@futurebird I agree. "one big thing did it all!" type ideas typically turn out to be either bad, or greatly exaggerated. It's likely intoxicants in general had important roles in most early societies, complex or not, but ascribing "caused civilization!" to any one of them alone, or even all of them together is at best a wild exaggeration.
(DIR) Post #AitGezX1vaIYVgz5VI by queenofnewyork@newsie.social
2024-06-13T16:30:53Z
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@futurebird Also that civilization WOULD develop. Two people working together can often accomplish more than each can do individually, and that ramps up. But there are set-backs and, as you said, people are a mixed bag -- some are good and some are not. Figuring out how to work together and the rules that let you work together safely and effectively is not an easy thing, especially as you're struggling just to eat and stay healthy and such.
(DIR) Post #AitH2jBeLhpgleInXk by Scmurcott@ioc.exchange
2024-06-13T16:35:10Z
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@futurebird it's an interesting hypothesis but the ancient people of South Africa had more than 18 different hallucinogenic plants used for various rituals and the sounds of their languages were more diverse than the vedic chants. No fungi in the list but roots, bark and succulent plants.
(DIR) Post #AitHX4C2oQo0bZxAo4 by andreashock@mastodon.social
2024-06-13T16:40:24Z
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@futurebird this just reminded me of the multitude of brilliant story ideas and worldbuilding snippets you used to post on twitter. I hope you saved your archive!
(DIR) Post #AitITprpifq7G8WUDY by llewelly@sauropods.win
2024-06-13T16:51:17Z
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@futurebird 1/5 the Pleistocene in general, and especially the last 10,000 years of it was full of huge climate swings, some of them quite rapid (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dansgaard%E2%80%93Oeschger_event and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_event ), and they would have made most kinds of foraging, hunting, fishing, and especially agriculture much less reliable and generally harder.
(DIR) Post #AitKMIZlIWyZtAbW4m by rustoleumlove@mastodon.online
2024-06-13T17:12:20Z
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@futurebird did people in ancient societies use psychoactive compounds? probablydid those psychoactive compounds spur the development of civilization? LMAO, no(i've done mushrooms ...and i dont see any connection between tripping and forming a city, culture, or society)
(DIR) Post #AitUBqhb4kaY5OvP8K by Scofisticated@socel.net
2024-06-13T19:02:27Z
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@futurebird ⭐ to #2
(DIR) Post #AithtNi7WeC4JfG316 by nazokiyoubinbou@mastodon.social
2024-06-13T21:36:03Z
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@futurebird Yeah, it's all an environment one is born into and immersed in, never knowing anything else. Even having ideas or creating tools or etc would have been hard to do in such a scenario -- a very slow progress.
(DIR) Post #AitlWc0Mc5x1nzBn8q by MichaelPorter@ottawa.place
2024-06-13T22:16:44Z
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@futurebird I just listened to a *very* interesting episode of the podcast “The Joy of Why,” in which they interviewed Gül Dölen, a neuroscientist at UC Berkeley. She studies how psychedelics can reopen critical periods for learning (the term “critical period” comes from Konrad Lorenz - think baby geese imprinting on people). Really fascinating stuff with applications to treating PTSD, depression, and so forth. It sounds like psychedelics reenable the plasticity of the brain, and with respect to your comment, maybe take away the paralyzing influence of preconceived notions or prior conditioning. You could get innovation and advancement more quickly that way.You wouldn’t have to have a lot of people taking them, but a small number of people may be able to open up their creativity enough for everyone to benefit.The podcast in question (with transcript):https://www.quantamagazine.org/can-psychedelics-improve-mental-health-20240606/
(DIR) Post #Aiuy4whvXbzmT1fCsK by glennsills@dotnet.social
2024-06-14T12:12:07Z
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@futurebird Evolution is really slooooooooooow. Cultural evolution that requires passing down wisdom from generation to generation is sloooooooooooooooooower.