Post Aikc8y5deNVvm3WJW4 by danialbehzadi@persadon.com
(DIR) More posts by danialbehzadi@persadon.com
(DIR) Post #Aifht18oANzcXQyqdU by Rob500@ohai.social
2024-06-07T02:03:03Z
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Should #communism have a transitional state? #poll
(DIR) Post #AigYmbeBKoarIrU1NA by jugger1511@nrw.social
2024-06-07T12:59:45Z
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@Rob500 we need a communist World, not a state
(DIR) Post #AigYmcNCdQbdYUXyXw by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-07T13:22:47Z
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@jugger1511 @Rob500 A communist world can only come about with the aid of a socialist transitional state to protect the revolution until such a time when communism will be possible.
(DIR) Post #AigpuUJKC46S5T4UpU by ramin_hal9001@emacs.ch
2024-06-07T16:34:42Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @jugger1511 @Rob500 I thought liberal capitalism was the transitional state? Marx lived at a time when Russia and most of Europe were still monarchies, and you can&apot;t jump from the pre-capitalist mode of production directly into communism. Russia and China both tried to force their transitions in the aftermath of WWI and WWII (respectively), and both ended up with yet another authoritarian state, but liberal instead of monarchist.If there is a transitional state into communism, it either exists right now in this state of ever-worsening catastrophic failure of the world neoliberal order, or it isn't happening at all.
(DIR) Post #AigqZp7Zj2auVEHnqi by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-07T16:42:12Z
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@ramin_hal9001 @jugger1511 @Rob500 You're wrong. The transitional state is the "dictatorship of the proletariat," a state run by the working class (socialist) that will exist after the overthrowing of capitalism in order to create the conditions necessary for a transition into communism.
(DIR) Post #Aigx4XqYbK7ld3MHOC by ramin_hal9001@emacs.ch
2024-06-07T17:54:57Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @jugger1511 @Rob500 you seem to know these things better than I do so I'll take your word for it.In my experience, this is one of those things that anarchists are quick to point out about Leninist Marxism as being authoritarian and contrary to the end goal of a communist society. This might be a detail that Marx got wrong, while being right over all about transitioning between modes of production. That is why I brought up Russia and China as exmaples, where Joseph Stalin and Deng Xiaoping are evidence of the failure of this idea of the dictatorship of the proletariat.I don't necessarily agree with the anarchists on that one, but I will not be convinced to follow any political movement unless they have a clear explanation, based on good historical evidence, as to why Stalin and Deng Xiaoping upended their respective revolutions and turned their nations more capitalist than ever before. I want to know better where it all went wrong and how to avoid it.
(DIR) Post #Aigznnx7lYjEWJ8hYe by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-07T18:25:34Z
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@ramin_hal9001 @jugger1511 @Rob500 The reason why Russia and China introduced capitalism into their countries is because, according to Marxism, a country has go through a period of capitalism in order to create the necessary material conditions for the emergence of socialism. This period allows for the accumulation of wealth, the development of industrial infrastructure, and the concentration of the working class, which are essential for the transition to socialism.
(DIR) Post #Aih06aIIlvITf403Ae by tg9541@mas.to
2024-06-07T18:28:57Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @ramin_hal9001 @jugger1511 @Rob500 that sounds almost serious.
(DIR) Post #Aih0RYRopfLa12S0US by ramin_hal9001@emacs.ch
2024-06-07T18:32:44Z
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> "a country has go through a period of capitalism in order to create the necessary material conditions for the emergence of socialism. This period allows for the accumulation of wealth, the development of industrial infrastructure, and the concentration of the working class, which are essential for the transition to socialism."@Radical_EgoCom @jugger1511 @Rob500 yes, I completely agree on this point, at least in interpreting what Marx prescribed. I don't know about Deng Xiaoping's motives or whether he was also following Marx's prescriptions, but I don't think this is what Stalin said in trying to justify his decisions as a leader. As far as I understand, Stalin claimed after the White Army had been defeated that the transitional state was no longer necessary, and that communism had been achieved, and anyone claiming otherwise was a counter-revolutionary provocateur and that they belonged in the gulags.
(DIR) Post #Aih0lBoEi9OnazIatU by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-07T18:36:18Z
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@tg9541 @ramin_hal9001 @jugger1511 @Rob500 It is serious.
(DIR) Post #Aih0otWoca7s3Yuvfk by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-07T18:36:59Z
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@ramin_hal9001 @jugger1511 @Rob500 I'm not a Stalinist or a Dengist, and I don't agree with the actions of these two individuals.
(DIR) Post #Aih1Gic6nMKCJVf0ue by tg9541@mas.to
2024-06-07T18:41:59Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @ramin_hal9001 @jugger1511 @Rob500 hmmm... believe in theories, doctrine and religion - the trinity of error.
(DIR) Post #Aih1N56u4947p76Ac4 by ramin_hal9001@emacs.ch
2024-06-07T18:43:08Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @jugger1511 @Rob500 I never meant to claim that you were Stalinist or Dengist. I am just telling you why this "transitional state" and the "dictatorship of the proletariat" is one of the things about Marxism about which I am most dubious. And I am not really even blaming Marx for this either, perhaps Marx's formula for this "dictatorship" is perfectly reasonable, but even if it is, we have plenty of examples where Marx's formulas were ignored, or not implemented correctly, or whatever, and this led to a dictatorship against the proletariat, not of them.
(DIR) Post #Aih3vwhHXPGhm2rnCS by ramin_hal9001@emacs.ch
2024-06-07T19:03:25Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @jugger1511 @Rob500 by the way, I am willing to admit I am totally misunderstanding history here. Maybe everything I thought I knew about Lenin, Stalin, Mao, or Deng, is pure bullshit. Most of what I learned in history classes in school was pure bullshit. So maybe Stalin wasn't as bad as they told me he was, maybe Deng Xiopeng was a great leader, and maybe my concerns about the "dictatorship of the proletariat" are completely unfounded, or founded on nothing but lies and propaganda. That is certainly possible, but I just don't know one way or the other.
(DIR) Post #Aih3vxyKnUVFjDqvQ0 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-07T19:11:51Z
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@ramin_hal9001 @jugger1511 @Rob500 I would recommend reading "Reform or Revolution" and "The Russian Revolution," by Rosa Luxemburg in order to learn more about the dictatorship of the proletariat and the many flaws of the Leninist approach to it.
(DIR) Post #Aih4lOAz8AsNleI2k4 by ramin_hal9001@emacs.ch
2024-06-07T19:21:07Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @jugger1511 @Rob500 thanks for the recommendation.
(DIR) Post #Aih4si3DdSQHR29FfU by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-07T19:22:29Z
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@ramin_hal9001 @jugger1511 @Rob500 https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1900/reform-revolution/
(DIR) Post #Aih4x4ZppGwSSNU6zY by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-07T19:23:17Z
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@ramin_hal9001 @jugger1511 @Rob500 https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1918/russian-revolution/
(DIR) Post #AihAYj1ktYHkOeJkxM by drcode@khiar.net
2024-06-07T20:26:05Z
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@danialbehzadi نظرت چیه؟
(DIR) Post #AikbtTfYTIEb59vvZw by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-09T12:16:26Z
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@danialbehzadi @drcode None of what you're saying negates the necessity for a transitional state to prevent counter-revolution or attacks from other countries.
(DIR) Post #Aikc8y5deNVvm3WJW4 by danialbehzadi@persadon.com
2024-06-09T12:19:16Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @drcode With well-educated people there will be no attempt to counter-revolution and they will stand against other states' attacks.
(DIR) Post #AikcQD6f4YVtGnDj1c by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-09T12:22:25Z
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@danialbehzadi @drcode You're saying that with such unjustified assurance. Even people who are well-educated can be deceived by counter-revolutionary propaganda (it's not just stupid people that propaganda works on), and the kind of attacks that a state can make could only be defended by a force equally as powerful and organized, which would have to take the form of some kind of state like structure.