Post AiQEtndnLRTVIAps4e by Jonathanglick@mstdn.social
(DIR) More posts by Jonathanglick@mstdn.social
(DIR) Post #AiQAE5JWqYYe7pD3jc by interfluidity@zirk.us
2024-05-30T15:32:16Z
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His ethical tradition does not strike me as unsurpassably subtle. To describe it as the Jewish tradition would be inaccurate and deeply antisemitic.“[In times of war], it is correct to kill even the righteous among your enemy” seems like an excellent exoneration of Hamas.What does “chosen” mean? To some, to the piece’s author, it’s exceptionalist, supremicist. To many Jews it is bitterly ironic and reflects a duty to which we are called rather than any privilege.https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/live-law-die-cross-israel
(DIR) Post #AiQAiEqRyWQ2N9zF20 by Jonathanglick@mstdn.social
2024-05-30T15:37:43Z
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@interfluidity This is such a terribly argued piece it hardly needs examination. Very little of it makes any sense.
(DIR) Post #AiQB7dre5iDFCxew3k by interfluidity@zirk.us
2024-05-30T15:42:19Z
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@Jonathanglick It is absurdly poorly argued, by a person who puffs himself up as an intellectual so extraordinary solidaristic values must give way. He caricatures every position not his own, although to be fair, that one caricatures itself. 1/
(DIR) Post #AiQBOoZjWLglLoTAUy by interfluidity@zirk.us
2024-05-30T15:45:26Z
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@Jonathanglick It’s not the shoddy argument that’s interesting in the piece. It’s the overtness and self-consciousness of the embrace of anti-universalism and overt supremacy as “Jewish”. There’s an extraordinary polarization occurring. Of course, two Jews three opinions. But when, somehow, this miserable war comes to a merciful close, will you and I and he recognize ourselves to be part of a shared community in any meaningful way at all? Should we? /fin
(DIR) Post #AiQDzwWH9Ao2c1gT4K by Jonathanglick@mstdn.social
2024-05-30T16:14:31Z
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@interfluidity Regarding the infamous Mekhilta d'Rabbi Yishmael 14: 7 with the alleged Bar Yochai quote: The killing done by Jews during the various revolts against the Romans (and Greco-Romans in Egypt) was at times fairly indiscriminate. It did not prevent the end of Jewish rule, and probably accelerated it.
(DIR) Post #AiQEtndnLRTVIAps4e by Jonathanglick@mstdn.social
2024-05-30T16:22:06Z
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@interfluidity To put it plainly, the reason why that passage is so incongruent with rabbinic tradition is not only because it rejects universal (Noachic) morality. But because the rabbis were very aware that, as a permanent minority in a dangerous world, Jews benefit from upholding universal ethical claims. In the same way, a world without international justice is one where Israel would never exist or eventually won't.
(DIR) Post #AiQEtomh5qBgq40UaG by interfluidity@zirk.us
2024-05-30T16:24:38Z
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@Jonathanglick absolutely.
(DIR) Post #AiSNIA1GysQPb7reCG by interfluidity@zirk.us
2024-05-31T17:08:06Z
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@Jonathanglick You know a lot more about this stuff than I do, and I have to say I am less inclined than I ever have been (which, admittedly, has never been much) to study Jewish tradition, but wouldn't the predicate of that story (God spared the livestock of the righteous) call into question that very ugly conclusion?
(DIR) Post #AiSPgE99UJK5Fw9Yyu by Jonathanglick@mstdn.social
2024-05-31T17:34:51Z
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@interfluidity The question of whether and how God’s own actions represent morality or whether they create space for our free will to exercise (or fail to exercise) morality is a deep tension within Jewish tradition. To be honest, there isn’t a consistent answer and even among the philosophically inclined commentators, it’s difficult to find logical rigor.
(DIR) Post #AiSQV3KnRluGUWpr6G by interfluidity@zirk.us
2024-05-31T17:44:03Z
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@Jonathanglick (that would apply both to saving the horses and killing them, right? re logical rigor, yeah. for the most part i treat any ethical or political claim grounded even in part on theology as lunacy, and don't spend much time trying to evaluate. perhaps that's biased, unfair. but though of course some theologically grounded claims are fascinating and wonderful, as a class i think what renders them exceptional in the ease with which they justify the otherwise unjustifiable.)
(DIR) Post #AiSQsA9KH7C8HvUQfg by Jonathanglick@mstdn.social
2024-05-31T17:48:13Z
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@interfluidity I think it maybe more helpful (or at least, interesting) to think of discussions of this kind in rabbinic Jewish tradition as a kind of infinite game intended to model and inspire a healthy community.