Post AiMNeus6IiW8KTfIye by arjen@idf.social
(DIR) More posts by arjen@idf.social
(DIR) Post #AiLJ8vEkoTIpDln1tY by djoerd@idf.social
2024-05-28T07:18:36Z
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Last night, the riot police arrested students protesting the genocide in Gaza. Do you think this response adheres to the Common Values of the Radboud Code of Conduct? Is calling the riot police on our students: 1. Sincere, honest and unbiased; 2. Respecting every person and the differences between them; 3. Keeping to the professional values; 4. Endorsing academic freedom; 5. Not abusing power; 6. Refraining from verbal and physical aggression; ?
(DIR) Post #AiLPObVqVykGPCe4ZM by heinragas@mublog.nl
2024-05-28T08:28:38Z
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@djoerd :spinthinking:
(DIR) Post #AiMNeus6IiW8KTfIye by arjen@idf.social
2024-05-28T19:43:50Z
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@djoerd 1. Sincere, honest and unbiased;I'd say yes, their actions are sincere and honest; not sure about unbiased. 2. Respecting every person and the differences between them;Perhaps, though they have not been very understanding of the board's position in their disagreement 3. Keeping to the professional values;I'd say it's not that professional to respond to not getting your way with graffiti and obstruction of teaching1/2
(DIR) Post #AiNLBQ5HgPYThCbBxI by arjen@idf.social
2024-05-28T19:50:07Z
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@djoerd 4. Endorsing academic freedom;Academic freedom does not fare well with a demand to discard all relations with Israelian colleagues (in Israel) 5. Not abusing power;Open for debate; is blocking a floor of a building abuse of group power? One could take multiple stands here. The building's owner has requested them to leave... 6. Refraining from verbal and physical aggressionSpraying the "from... sea" slogan on the wall can be seen as a form of verbal aggression.2/3
(DIR) Post #AiNLBR6Nto1squ7aJE by arjen@idf.social
2024-05-28T20:01:42Z
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@djoerdDoes the board violate their own policy in response to the demonstrations?They let the protests continue rather long. The demand to vacate the building was clear, and demonstrators said "we will not". What's next? I guess calling the police is not unreasonable. C/Should they have waited one more day to clear Erasmus? I don't know - happy I did not have to decide.Apparently, the police's assessment was that riot police was needed. I wouldn't blame the board here.3/3
(DIR) Post #AiNLBRohF3TV4KqyNU by djoerd@idf.social
2024-05-29T06:50:51Z
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@arjen Thanks for bringing this up. You are right every time, but... Every time it does not matter. Your response is that of a parent that is asked "Why do you beat your children?", who answers: "They beat me first". That's not a valid excuse in the case of child molesting (assuming a power imbalance between parent and child). We are supposed to act as the guardians of our students. Even if they do not fully adhere to our rules, we cannot, ever, break them ourselves.
(DIR) Post #AiNMYZL5XVt10vaqzw by djoerd@idf.social
2024-05-29T07:06:13Z
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maybe one response to point 4 is not right: I don't think that anyone demands that that all personal relations with Israeli colleagues should be discarded. There's clear precedent on what to do if a rogue state rages war while disregarding international law: Institutional partnerships with Russian organisations are suspended, but the university still gives "staff full freedom to continue their existing personal correspondence with these [Russian] researchers".https://www.ru.nl/en/about-us/news/dutch-knowledge-institutions-suspend-partnerships-with-russia-and-belarus
(DIR) Post #AiNN0kYzOy2hvwX7i4 by arjen@idf.social
2024-05-29T07:11:20Z
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@djoerd we might disagree a little here - I view our students as (yes, young) adults who will have to face the consequences of their actions, especially when breaking the law, like any other adult. We do agree that using riot police was highly likely not necessary at all. Only very few protestors did not leave upon police request.But you state it like our leaders decide how the police operate. I would not hold our board responsible for violence that may have been used by the police.
(DIR) Post #AiNODRgD1OTd5OWmPI by djoerd@idf.social
2024-05-29T07:24:49Z
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@arjen Demonstrations for peace (including occupying our buildings and camping on our campus) is *not* breaking the law. (dat weet je heus ook wel 🙂 ) The students that were forcefully removed were not charged with anything.
(DIR) Post #AiNPeWWxC7k9u3fsGW by arjen@idf.social
2024-05-29T07:40:56Z
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@djoerd The right to demonstrate includes a right to trespass and occupy private property?I don't know the law in detail, but I'd be surprised. I would think that the tents could also have been removed, had the uni not let them stay there; the demonstrations got quite some freedom to operate and express their opinion.They stated that they were not happy with the low impact of their protests, and therefore decided to intensify their actions. With an intensified response as effect.
(DIR) Post #AiNROwR1Jb5lWEb3GS by djoerd@idf.social
2024-05-29T08:00:33Z
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@arjen Seriously: Why call on the law if our students challenge our authority? Again, we are supposed to act as guardians of our students. We are supposed to treat them as our clients too (they pay thousands of euros even to be here). We are supposed to adhere to our code of conduct at all times.BTW, the FNV wrote a helpful letter to the UNL about the right of peaceful assembly, civil disobedience, etc.https://www.fnv.nl/nieuwsbericht/sectornieuws/fnv-overheid/2024/05/richtlijn-voor-protesteren-op-universiteiten
(DIR) Post #AiNXiiWXLSCJtJzRA0 by arjen@idf.social
2024-05-29T09:11:16Z
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@djoerd I generally do not like viewing students as customers... But, if you do, you need to balance the rights of those who want to cancel lectures and those who want to attend lectures (in Erasmus ;).The letter is useful. Maybe they should have occupied the campus church instead of Erasmus!I'll stop here, our positions are clear. I understand the board had to act because talks with protestors led nowhere, you don't agree the occupation of Erasmus is reason to call in law enforcement.