Post AiA9WAdaaGPdMhIHwG by clive@saturation.social
(DIR) More posts by clive@saturation.social
(DIR) Post #Ai7WmiYJyHiCehoFAu by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T15:45:18Z
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People of Mastodon!I'm researching the growth of ebikes ...... in cities around the USI've talked to many people who love them! But also want to include the perspective of folks who have concerns ...... i.e. about the speed and weight of ebikes in accidents with pedestrians or other cyclists, and the likeIf anyone has thoughts they wanna share, ping me! I'm all ears: clive@clivethompson.netPass this along if you know anyone else with perspective they want to share
(DIR) Post #Ai7Wzone3WRhnNDwnI by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T15:47:38Z
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(The research, BTW, is for two things: A book I'm researching about micromobility, and the quest to ease back as much as possible on our reliance on carsand a piece for Mother Jones about how cities around the US are trying to kickstart more ebike riding by offering subsidies to buy them)
(DIR) Post #Ai7XHf86kNyp17IuEy by pierrotechnique@sonomu.club
2024-05-21T15:49:58Z
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@clive heh, there was literally a thread on this very subject just earlier todayhttps://sonomu.club/@pierrotechnique/112478929864579537
(DIR) Post #Ai7XLUFl7zvCRThrZQ by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T15:51:36Z
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@pierrotechnique Aha, thank you! That's great
(DIR) Post #Ai7XZ5bXZHEy39Nf3g by climatebrad@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T15:51:41Z
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@clive Micromobility is so much better than microplastics and microbursts https://hillheat.news/p/aw-nuts
(DIR) Post #Ai7Xc28SvDic9yBWe8 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T15:54:35Z
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@climatebrad I just read the testes news a few minutes ago!
(DIR) Post #Ai7XisMHfghnrbuY3E by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T15:55:48Z
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@angelastella Thank you! @pierrotechnique just pointed out that thread to me too
(DIR) Post #Ai7XpaAzfcr1V3pPCy by KirstenAnne@mas.to
2024-05-21T15:56:34Z
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@clive I think people are riding e-bikes that may not be familiar with the rules of the road/paths for biking and it may be beneficial to start some sort of educational component (with any motorized mobility) about how to be respectful and safe while having fun!! I love my e-bikes but I hate seeing other e-bikes maneuvering recklessly (acoustic bikers do this too, but e-bikes add mass and speed) I live in boulder, CO, an epicenter of e-biking, we’ve ebiked here for 6 years
(DIR) Post #Ai7XwVcT0kjbOUyu5g by dougiec3@libretooth.gr
2024-05-21T15:56:09Z
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@clive We ride bicycles on the hike and bike trails. Our concern is that they are fast enough for the sound they make to be no use when they approach (also using the hike and bike trail. They are also fast enough to make the traditional bicyclists warning "On your left {or right} useless)".
(DIR) Post #Ai7YQM1xE8MMLH8Nf6 by mwfc@chaos.social
2024-05-21T16:01:09Z
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@clive maybe add #fedibikes and maybe fedibikes@a.gup.pe as a group of folks :)
(DIR) Post #Ai7YQN2hSqYBTsUUSm by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:03:37Z
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@mwfc Good idea!
(DIR) Post #Ai7YdSjHdFUksneRvs by mazigazi@dobbs.town
2024-05-21T16:03:36Z
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@clive I love my rad power bike! Low on frills and quite solid. I’ve an arthritic knee and using a regular bike is often painful. My e-bike has pedal assist which allows me to exercise my knees without stress! I use it exclusively for short trips within five miles (groceries, etc.). I do worry about resources needed for making these batteries, but I’m using less gasoline and staying outta traffic. Otherwise, a very useful tool!
(DIR) Post #Ai7YuoXnmJeRSmYTQG by eldubuu@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T16:01:57Z
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@clive Give a human a machine, any machine, and we transform from annoying low-speed assholes into dangerous high-speed assholes.There is no machine on earth that fixes the problem of humans destroying everything in our path in pursuit of greater self-esteem….
(DIR) Post #Ai7YwHBGnGhMZFiGR6 by luis_in_brief@social.coop
2024-05-21T16:07:46Z
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@clive I wonder to what extent this is a regional/cultural/infrastructural thing. In my neighborhood in SF, ~ all ebike use is parents on big cargo bikes, driving like boring, safety-conscious parents. I have family in SoCal, and there looooots of ebike use is teenagers driving pedal-less near-motorcycles like teenagers (while the parents drive SUVs, of course). Both "ebikes" but worlds apart in the experience of people around them.
(DIR) Post #Ai7Z2BgS9173Fx7Kr2 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:08:21Z
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@eldubuu I'm fascinated by the human reaction to speedWhat is it about it that gets its talons into our souls?I sometimes think of Roger Callois "Man, Play and Games" -- a foundational book of the philosophy of play -- in which he defines four types of play, one of which is "ilinx", or, the pleasure of being physically aroused by whirling aroundfeels like it's a part of people's fascination with speed
(DIR) Post #Ai7Z9rIpnv3EMXjC7s by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:05:54Z
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@mazigazi Excellent! I mostly ride my regular pedal bike, but my family has had a loaner Rad ebike for a while now (I've been slow-baking a piece about them) so I ride it every so often -- it's a really smooth rideI've heard a lot of positive stories from all manner of folks with arthritis or other slight mobility issues that make traditional pedal bikes a strain
(DIR) Post #Ai7ZFed7plaqnQyy5w by MagentaRocks@mastodon.coffee
2024-05-21T16:11:14Z
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@clive Have you ever spent time in Italy? It is the wild west of all kinds of scooters. Then again, being a pedestrian in Amsterdam can be harrowing. Here it will depend on the location, i.e. crowded city vs rural.I think some kind of rules will be required to help with all around safety. Helmets, speed, proper bike lanes, sound (so you can hear them coming), licensing, age restrictions, insurance, etc. etc. Just my thoughts.
(DIR) Post #Ai7ZTvxcCEpobGNKOu by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:10:26Z
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@luis_in_brief Yes, excellent pointI think it's highly contigent on this stuffHere in NYC, it's heavily infrastructural: There was a noticeable increase in cycling propelled by COVID -- plus the consistent rollout of bikeshare stands -- that has continued to this day; it's made a couple of major bike routes in and out of manhattan surprisingly congested during peak periods ...... with conflicts between bikes and regular bikes
(DIR) Post #Ai7ZWGUCqyT0q2jOC0 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:14:21Z
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@dougiec3 Aha, yeah, good point about sound and warningsUsually when I say "on your left" on my regular pedal bike, I'm passing at a pretty slow paceHave you had any accidents or near-accidents with ebike riders?
(DIR) Post #Ai7ZcWaftIBSWSk28u by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:13:27Z
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@KirstenAnne Yep yep -- here in NYC we've had a real boom in ebiking, alongside a recent book in traditional cycling ... some of the same maneuvering/swerving issuesWhat ebikes do you have?
(DIR) Post #Ai7ZltGYx8JfSKnfxQ by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:15:50Z
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@MagentaRocks I've not been to Italy in a looooong (far too long, gotta fix this) while! But scooter riding in Italy has been famous for decades yeahAmsterdam true too: I've been there and made the mistake, as a pedestrian, of standing for a second too long in a bicycle pathgot a very sharp admonition from a cyclist 😅
(DIR) Post #Ai7Zs5yob1sccmSRFI by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:12:00Z
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@brbcoding mastobikes!Yeah, this feels like a fairly common reaction I hear from traditional cyclistsGood to have more cyclists on the road -- critical mass and all that ...... but concerns about the sheer size of some of these rides
(DIR) Post #Ai7a7SH9z0DS7MMX0i by eldubuu@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T16:15:24Z
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@clive Evolution provides some hints: Never go bear hunting with someone who can run faster than you.
(DIR) Post #Ai7aI8ukJDEJFpyUca by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:16:00Z
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@eldubuu lololol
(DIR) Post #Ai7aL9QkqVLriyNgKu by luis_in_brief@social.coop
2024-05-21T16:24:19Z
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@clive yeah, I wonder how much some of the concern about "ebikes" is really concern about infrastructure. (I hate having to drive on sidewalks, for example, but sometimes that's far and away the safest thing...)There's also status quo bias. It drives me nuts the number of SFans who genuinely believe that cyclists in SF are as dangerous to pedestrians as cars, when cars have killed nearly 300 people since the last time a cyclist killed a pedestrian in the city. But those deaths are normalized.
(DIR) Post #Ai7aaRGaoWVZNyux72 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:26:55Z
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@luis_in_brief I think these arguments are very heavily propelled by infrastructure yeahA few years ago I spoke to the folks at Citibike, the bikeshare firm here in NYCThey were talking to the city about the overwhelming popularity of the ebike option in citibike -- only 20% of the bikes are ebikes but they are disproportionately preferred by ridersThe city and citibike were realizing, damn, ideally, we need two-by-two bike lanesOne "slow" and one "passing" lane in each direction
(DIR) Post #Ai7aaZJMu5TwKuHHY8 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:27:37Z
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@luis_in_brief No room for that, though, without a more substantive reallocation of streets from ICE vehicles to things-roughly-the-size-of-a-bike-or-smaller
(DIR) Post #Ai7awV8l5n5Dlpm0pM by luis_in_brief@social.coop
2024-05-21T16:30:57Z
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@clive SF and NYC need an Anne Hidalgo
(DIR) Post #Ai7ayVSur2szMG9rSi by JKrotkov@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T16:31:35Z
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@clive In the backcountry of Montana, ebikes pose a threat to wildlife. They also pose a threat to trails that are not intended for such heavy use. The big knobby tires moving fast churn up trails, making them hard to walk on. More people getting deeper into the backcountry is both good and bad. Trail upkeep is already underfunded.
(DIR) Post #Ai7b71FMZlm0F7sUds by MichaelBishop@mastodon.world
2024-05-21T16:33:34Z
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@clive There's a DIY ebike group on Facebook where a large percentage of the members aim to build bikes bigger and faster than legally permitted.
(DIR) Post #Ai7bOQxIFH2ItpjJQ0 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:36:58Z
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@MichaelBishop Aha, didn't know that! I could maybe have suspected that ...Given any [TYPE OF VEHICLE], there'll be folks hacking and torquing it in ways un-street-legal
(DIR) Post #Ai7bbgQm1FRQf0pwqu by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:37:56Z
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@luis_in_brief truly
(DIR) Post #Ai7brCNrV6iS6YsCsC by nancybaym@aoir.social
2024-05-21T16:38:31Z
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@clive I get a little weirded out seeing young kids riding them around like little motorcycles. Safe? I have questions.
(DIR) Post #Ai7c1UuBUfewRYu1pY by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:37:46Z
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@JKrotkov Aha, hadn't thought about that problem or heard about it yet, but I can see that!
(DIR) Post #Ai7c3bKwYIJ8yCQEaW by KirstenAnne@mas.to
2024-05-21T16:43:08Z
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@clive We have a felt tote’m (I don’t think they make this anymore) and now an Aventon abound. 🚲🎊
(DIR) Post #Ai7cAgypy646V3SnDc by adamrice@c.im
2024-05-21T16:44:53Z
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@clive I’m a cyclist (I ride long distances recreationally, also commute). I’m in favor of e-bikes in theory. In practice, I have some concerns (echoing some others on this thread).- There are a lot of cost-engineered e-bikes that I am afraid are underbuilt/underengineered. My wife was looking at one particular model. I took a look at the brakes on it and said “Nope.”- You can go 28 mph on a Class 3 e-bike. That’s fast for a bike (I struggle to hold more than 21 mph on my acoustic bikes), and if you’re not putting much effort into it, you may not realize *how* fast. So your expectations about reaction times and braking distances are way off.- We really don’t have the infrastructure to support a vulnerable road user that can more or less keep pace with motor traffic.- Apart from the Class 1/2/3 taxonomy, there’s a simpler classification: there are e-bikes that are basically bikes, but with assist, and e-bikes that are basically electric mopeds (you *can* pedal them, but human power is not really a factor most of the time). I’m not sure if these should be treated differently. I do think a lot of the latter would be electric motorcycles, and manufacturers are making them as e-bikes to skirt licensing requirements.
(DIR) Post #Ai7cFrmtDMEzSxLHf6 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:37:16Z
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@nein09 @luis_in_brief Very cool!
(DIR) Post #Ai7cHd3IyF8aLQrQsi by timbray@cosocial.ca
2024-05-21T16:35:55Z
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@clive I both drive and e-bike often, sometimes both on the same day. I have not noticed a significant difference in the proportion of bad drivers vs that of bad bikers. Obviously bad drivers inflict a much higher cost in damage, injury, and death. The distinction between power-assist e-bikes and actual powered vehicles with a throttle is crucial. I see very few e-bikers going too fast, but I see scooters, hoverboards, and fat-tired powered-bikes going scary-fast regularly.
(DIR) Post #Ai7cHelIc9vHeAS55s by timbray@cosocial.ca
2024-05-21T16:45:16Z
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@clive And the environmental-cost trade-off is not remotely close. e-bikes are insanely less carbon-costly than EVs and of course ICE cars. And, um, please try to avoid both-sides-ing this. I love my car, but increasing the proportion of travel that relies on e-bikes would be unambiguously good for the world and its people and other creatures.Final point: E-bike is empowering for 60+ people like me.
(DIR) Post #Ai7cWvspEvdN5kFxnk by blabberlicious@toot.community
2024-05-21T16:49:40Z
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@clive @dougiec3 A very common one for me is waiting at a red light to turn left at a junction, only to have a e-bike doing 30 undertake and bomb round the corner. Multiple times if I’d simply twisted my wheel to shift my standing weight, I’d have been smashed into bits. Always delivery drivers.
(DIR) Post #Ai7cj7lsrlHdR8p5wO by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:50:07Z
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@nancybaym Yeah, I've definitely heard that mini-motorcycle problem pointed out, particularly with young riders
(DIR) Post #Ai7cop37O3od6obLJQ by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:52:54Z
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@spots1000 @KirstenAnne When I visited Denver last month I rode around on some of the multimodal trails/routes -- it was unusual for me because NYC doesn't have too many of those ... most bike paths are for bikes (and are in the street)It definitely took some getting used to
(DIR) Post #Ai7cwgrHiyJM1QomcS by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:53:58Z
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@spots1000 @KirstenAnne Have either of you witnessed any accidents on those trails? bike/bike, ebike/bike, bike(ebike)/pedestrian, etc
(DIR) Post #Ai7d9EDpVN1ayMLG8O by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:54:20Z
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@KirstenAnne Nice!
(DIR) Post #Ai7dBglQMGDG4ZEEbI by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T16:56:56Z
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@adamrice Yeah, this is a good breakdown of the issues I most often hear from people!Here in NYC, throttle-propelled ebikes are technically not allowed, but in practice this ban is not enforced ... there are many on the streetsWhat city are you in? I also, like you, do cross-country cycling a lot
(DIR) Post #Ai7dJ6sleHPX6YCauW by adamrice@c.im
2024-05-21T16:58:14Z
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@clive I’m in Austin TX.
(DIR) Post #Ai7ddNbBCvEIk0dnVo by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:01:03Z
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@timbray Aha, interesting!I think I might see similar patterns here in NYC
(DIR) Post #Ai7dmkMjvftnxTLyAS by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:02:26Z
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@adamrice Aha! I haven't cycled there in like 20 yearsWhat's the infrastructure like these days?
(DIR) Post #Ai7e2BleKfSPHrMsMK by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:01:55Z
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@blabberlicious @dougiec3 yiiiiikes yeahThat's scary!
(DIR) Post #Ai7eTycKommabvGGYK by adamrice@c.im
2024-05-21T17:11:34Z
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@clive It’s…kind of a mess. I think the city wants to be perceived as bike-friendly, and has put in a bunch of bike infrastructure, but a lot of it is poorly considered, like the traffic engineers don’t ride bikes (which, let’s face it, they probably don’t). Some streets have sharrows, which we now know are worse than nothing. Some streets have bike lanes with wands, which I hate (maybe that’s just me). There are some intersections where bikes are routed up onto the sidewalk to ride through at the crosswalk, which seems designed to maximize right-hook opportunities.The farm roads that I like to ride on outside of town are no different. Chipseal, 4” of shoulder.
(DIR) Post #Ai7eeqNlm9bwFvd9QO by aslakr@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T17:12:52Z
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@clive From a European perspective, what's considered to be an ebike in US the seems a bit wild https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws?wprov=sfti1#European_Union_definition
(DIR) Post #Ai7evB9cJZCHJNneVM by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:15:41Z
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@adamrice Yeah, that mishmash of approaches seems unfortunately common in a lot of US cities where they're a) rolling out more accommodations for cycling but b) in a really hodgepodge way ... possibly because c) the cities were built in hodgepodge fashions, and built entirely around cars and (lesserly) pedestrian sidewalks, so squeezing in bike infra gets super weird
(DIR) Post #Ai7fEQvjspY9k6UQds by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:18:43Z
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@aslakr true indeed!
(DIR) Post #Ai7fSPv0RT7UetoaMy by abosio@fosstodon.org
2024-05-21T17:16:31Z
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@clive sorry not related to concerns, but I have been surprised/delighted at the noticeable surge in popularity of e-bikes in suburban South Florida and the diversity (age, apparent demographics) of both the hardware and the riders.
(DIR) Post #Ai7fTElBPkZ8LCbxdg by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:19:10Z
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@spots1000 @KirstenAnne yep yep
(DIR) Post #Ai7fV8AOtnFyTIJFgm by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:19:45Z
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@abosio I'd say the same thing here in NYC -- the demographics are all over the place, which is quite nice to see
(DIR) Post #Ai7fbd78kZ6WBssq3c by blabberlicious@toot.community
2024-05-21T17:20:51Z
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@clive @dougiec3 Also: the large Junction ‘X’ crossings. Bikes will occasionally amble across the red light to cross over with pedestrians (while still giving them right of way). But e-scooters and delivery bikes just see it as a green light and bomb straight across at full speed. I have seen many heart-stopping near misses.
(DIR) Post #Ai7fi38IvSWIckUO80 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:21:12Z
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@kaz @spots1000 @KirstenAnne Aha, that's interesting about the slowing-down speeding-up on an ebikeVery true that slowing down on my regular pedal bike always carries this tiny incremental sense of cost, because I know I'll need to exert extra work to get back up to speed ...... which isn't true when I ride an ebike
(DIR) Post #Ai7fww7VHXJHDYDHWa by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:21:46Z
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@mishi Right, the undocked ones!They can be a huge mess if not parked correctly
(DIR) Post #Ai7fz7JubwRyX83b6m by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:23:03Z
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@blabberlicious @dougiec3 Ack!What is a large junction X crossing? Is that different from a regular four-way intersection?
(DIR) Post #Ai7g5WUxuaBMMNHWxE by blabberlicious@toot.community
2024-05-21T17:23:14Z
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@clive @dougiec3 and lastly e-bike bombing in and out of cycle lanes. Overtaking cyclists in the blue lane. Relative speeds are so out of whack. Dangerous.
(DIR) Post #Ai7gBXXKxqi3JkGBw8 by agvbergin@mastodon.me.uk
2024-05-21T17:24:33Z
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@clive I'm in the UK, but my biggest concern is battery safety. We have had very bad problems with this due to inadequate regulation of sellers and a lack of public information about the dangers of Li battery fires:- low quality 3rd party chargers that result in electrical fires- batteries being damaged (eg in a bike crash) makes them more susceptible to catching on fire- batteries thrown away in the trash causing garbage truck fires.All addressable thru regulation/comms.
(DIR) Post #Ai7gI9rjN4dZvixGe8 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:26:58Z
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@timbray nah, this isn't a both-sides articleIt's looking holistically at the impact of ebikes on a whole bunch of civic metrics -- health, air quality, greenhouse emissions, traffic reduction ... hell even fewer microplastics, since even a very heavy ebike produces far fewer microplastics than a carBut there's social friction worth nothing as ebikes become more common -- I want to mention it because, even if (perhaps especially if) it's propelled ultimately by ...
(DIR) Post #Ai7gIFPwjHyf9I0AAi by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:28:13Z
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@timbray .... car-focused infrastructure (thereby squeezing anyone who isn't in a car into tiny strips of city roadways, where they argue over who's in who's way) ...... the friction is real, or at least perceived as real by folks in that squabble
(DIR) Post #Ai7gP0POvjVIcvy8zg by fifilamoura@eldritch.cafe
2024-05-21T17:27:22Z
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@clive Are you interested in Canadian takes?
(DIR) Post #Ai7ghQXMWYQcsKTcx6 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:29:36Z
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@fifilamoura Sure!BEING CANADIAN MYSELF CERTAINLY but also just it's illustrative
(DIR) Post #Ai7gnDbLX1vWUe6NVI by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:31:29Z
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@agvbergin Yep, the lousy third-party battery quality is a huge civic riskNYC has a significant problem with this, particularly amongst lower-income delivery drivers who load up on the least-expensive, highest-yield batteries -- which also tend to be those most at risk of exploding ...... and these drivers often live in cramped apartments where one exploded battery takes down an entire building crowded with low-income residents
(DIR) Post #Ai7gt8S9aNdeGPcicy by Lyle@cville.online
2024-05-21T17:31:05Z
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@clive Ha yes, that addresses my equity concern.
(DIR) Post #Ai7gzIohxyeq8z77om by Lyle@cville.online
2024-05-21T17:30:34Z
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@clive Sent! The theme was "equity"
(DIR) Post #Ai7gzJXNHuO2NW0nRI by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:31:40Z
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@Lyle Cool! Thank you!
(DIR) Post #Ai7h6xi4KGaEzwf1uq by cbowns@xoxo.zone
2024-05-21T17:32:27Z
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@clive highly recommend reading up on e-bikes in Oregon (recently banned for kids under 16 after a fatality here in Bend). https://www.opb.org/article/2024/02/28/oregon-house-passes-ebike-law-after-bend-teens-death/I’ll kick you an email with some notes if you want to dive in. Bend is, I think, a bit of a quirky city size and density and population distribution (summer tourists! Mountain bikes! Lots of kids!) that has a lot of friction points
(DIR) Post #Ai7hOqJyXFG9IMuwpU by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:31:56Z
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@blabberlicious @dougiec3 That's definitely the case here in NYC too
(DIR) Post #Ai7hVF2JYe1TgYhwv2 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:39:27Z
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@Lyle 🤘
(DIR) Post #Ai7hc15LpG0aRbMIxk by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T17:39:57Z
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@cbowns aha, I'll check that out -- thank you! I hadn't heard about what happened in Bend
(DIR) Post #Ai7hi3MIHpmlESA7IO by blabberlicious@toot.community
2024-05-21T17:39:57Z
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@clive when the pedestrians can walk across the middle of the junctions diagonally to the other side.
(DIR) Post #Ai7hssMrUTw6KWaXq4 by fifilamoura@eldritch.cafe
2024-05-21T17:47:53Z
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@clive I realized you were looking for negative takes, which I don't have a lot of (even though I prefer riding a regular bike). The main issue here in Montreal seems to be the same one that has more to do with who is riding than what the vehicle is.....it's mainly young dudes being assholes on bikeshare bikes (because apparently some people still aren't teaching their boys to give a shit about anyone but themselves, I assume these are the same males who never learn to wash their bum, their sheets or the dishes).
(DIR) Post #Ai7jPf5LzkwSe6b2yu by dxzdb@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T18:06:19Z
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@clive I don't see any issue with the speed. I routinely saw people on non-ebikes going just as fast next to pedestrians before. I'm not convinced the weight matters either.One detail that people might not be ready for is that bike batteries are not meant to be left in cold temperatures - and at least some batteries are not easy to remove.Options:1) Buy a bike with easily removable (& lockable) battery.2a) Degrade your battery in the cold.2b) Find a way to store your bike inside.
(DIR) Post #Ai7jotMo2ACgB8n4K0 by cainmark@mstdn.social
2024-05-21T18:10:21Z
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@clive Just a small note. Even though #CrashNotAccident often applies to larger motor vehicles, some larger faster ebike incidents should also use it. Generally better to use crash in any case, unless it's absolutely provable that it was truly an accident.
(DIR) Post #Ai7k3HqlnoBOANfaro by cainmark@mstdn.social
2024-05-21T18:13:56Z
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@clive Have only had issues with class 3 ebikes on multi-use paths going way too fast for conditions--like other people also using them.
(DIR) Post #Ai7kkgReEe24tjc1oW by dougiec3@libretooth.gr
2024-05-21T18:21:21Z
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@clive No. Just been startled a few times to look up at the sound and see them suddenly there.
(DIR) Post #Ai7ksU7VwTVmzRumcy by KirstenAnne@mas.to
2024-05-21T18:22:27Z
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@spots1000 @clive On multimodal paths:I have seen a dog/bike collision (which I’m embarrassed to say I contributed to but it wasn’t my dog, everyone was ok but the biker flew off his road bike and was furious—also didn’t slow down at all given potential commotion)I saw the scary outcome of a bike/bike head on collision that required EMT. So many close calls, but it’s surprising I haven’t seen more. Both of these influence how I bike on these paths.
(DIR) Post #Ai7lu45hmyKenNO05w by meganL@mas.to
2024-05-21T18:32:35Z
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@clive I am very much pro-e-bike and use them myself (cycled "acoustically" for years before I got osteoarthritis in the knees).My concern is that car-centrists have looked at California's e-bike definitions and created what is essentially an electric Vespa without the regulations & training a Vespa driver would be subject to.This stokes ire against cyclists & increases crackdowns on all e-cycle riders instead of drivers.https://mas.to/@meganL/112306655028645630
(DIR) Post #Ai7luWdheAAFKvVXyS by timbray@cosocial.ca
2024-05-21T18:12:05Z
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@clive Fair enough. I look forward to reading it.FWIW I occasionally see outbursts on social and mainstream media about the awfulness of reckless scofflaw cyclists, a threat to anyone on any sidewalk. On the occasions I've interacted with these people, 100% have been regular drivers who never cycle. Correlation != causation, but…Anyhow, there are probably some relevant points here: https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/What/The%20World/Micromobility/
(DIR) Post #Ai7mGZiwrJbjH3TXRA by peterg75@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T18:38:19Z
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@clive Depending on where you are, they can be a boon or a nuisance. In general, I'm fully on board with eBikes in cities, but here in the US, most cities have to improve their bicycle infrastructure for them to be widely accepted. At the moment, there are a lot of places where bikes share the sidewalks with pedestrians and that is not going to win them any favors.
(DIR) Post #Ai7mPtwP3to8aADRei by PalmAndNeedle@norden.social
2024-05-21T18:40:03Z
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@clive @luis_in_brief We need about ten to thirty Annes Hildago in Germany first. Get in line :blobcatgooglytrash:
(DIR) Post #Ai7mZm3fE1Ft1uJswK by RustyBertrand@social.vivaldi.net
2024-05-21T18:41:46Z
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@clive They should be made free for semi disabled people. So expensive.I'd still be mobile if I had an ebike.
(DIR) Post #Ai7mrUt1o6kozAnPRQ by ai6yr@m.ai6yr.org
2024-05-21T18:44:55Z
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@clive Will pass on comments privately, after having been mercilessly beaten here for commenting on the negatives of e-bikes, LOL. (just blocked all of those folks, but... still)
(DIR) Post #Ai7n2WEF9oYEKkyUpk by John@socks.masto.host
2024-05-21T18:45:28Z
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@clive @timbray we are far enough into it now that it is, sadly, not just pessimism. It is a widely reported increase in emergency room visits.I consider myself an "all modes" person, and I do notice bad behavior by all modes, but perhaps because I am a frequent pedestrian and old bicyclist, I'm most shocked by people in those vulnerable modes who put themselves at risk. It is sadly often young teens, without driver (or bicycle safety?) education.Everybody follows the rules, everybody safe.
(DIR) Post #Ai7n732b6XCVG0gfC4 by johne@denvr.social
2024-05-21T18:45:50Z
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@clive just sent you an email.
(DIR) Post #Ai7nNpu5CZvxR3i3wu by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T18:50:53Z
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@RustyBertrand Strongly agreethe story I'm writing for Mother Jones is about how some cities are subsidizing ebikes so lower-income folks can buy themIt's a promising direction
(DIR) Post #Ai7nVPhaVDCkUPTij2 by RustyBertrand@social.vivaldi.net
2024-05-21T18:47:35Z
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@clive I'd be free.
(DIR) Post #Ai7nVQSjfuv0qdXNDM by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T18:51:02Z
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@RustyBertrand 100%
(DIR) Post #Ai7nkBQDsTaMXoOmpc by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T18:54:54Z
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@RustyBertrand In Denver, income qualified folks can get $1,200 to the purchase of a bikeI'd argue they should offer that sort of subsidy to people who have mobility issues, even if they're not lower-income themselves
(DIR) Post #Ai7o2oEoIdjm8swTtg by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T18:57:34Z
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@h2onolan That's a cool way of thinking about the structural pressures/incentives here
(DIR) Post #Ai7o8Dwg9AsZJx2kHg by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T18:58:22Z
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@johne Checking!
(DIR) Post #Ai7oEa7Gd5SNot1lUO by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-21T18:58:35Z
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@ai6yr Do email me, yes!
(DIR) Post #Ai7pcfvSmTlEk4YiBs by ai6yr@m.ai6yr.org
2024-05-21T19:15:21Z
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@clive Sent!
(DIR) Post #Ai7qinz3pmSvQQjEEi by burritojustice@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T19:27:48Z
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@clive @luis_in_brief I also want wider protected lanes so I can ride beside my kids. one nice thing about two-way cycle tracks is the opposite lane can be used for passing
(DIR) Post #Ai7rTtOVXIEtoe5Geu by eldubuu@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T19:36:47Z
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@clive @RustyBertrand Are you concerned that low-income people are likely more vulnerable to having such an expensive asset stolen from them? Also, e-bikes can be a fire hazard if not charged properly, or connected to substandard electrical outlets.Seems like the taxpayer might have grounds to wonder if conventional bicycles might be a more cost effective use of subsidies….
(DIR) Post #Ai7sRKkZTGRzkBkQ9g by billyjoebowers@mastodon.online
2024-05-21T19:47:31Z
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@clive I think ebikes are overall good, and the good outweighs the bad. The main problems I have with ebikes are;1. People who don't have a lot of bike riding skills are riding at speeds way faster than they can handle. 2. A lot of ebikes seem like crap that's going to end up in a landfill. Proprietary systems add to this.
(DIR) Post #Ai7vKip3s6XYErO3H6 by Adoxography@ieji.de
2024-05-21T20:19:49Z
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@clive You guys in N America probably don't have to deal with these beasts yet: https://www.fietsenwinkel.nl/fietsen/-/elektrische_fietsen/elektrische_bakfietsen?utm_id=482080645&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NL%7CSearch%7CGeneriek&utm_term=electric%20bakfiets&utm_content=E-bike%20BakfietsenNewton's Second Law my friend. I've seen these things in NL clip corners doing 28Km with young, distracted parents piloting them. You get hit by one of these, it may as well be a car.I own and live my ebike, am not anti-ebikist or anything. People just don't understand physics at this scale since we cannot run this fast.
(DIR) Post #Ai7y26VjsHVg4EA9z6 by JessicaTaylor@chaosfem.tw
2024-05-21T20:50:07Z
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@cliveIf you don't mention, compare, and contrast every single "concern" you have to an automobile doing the same trip but worse then you will have failed.That's my opinion. I don't really care about a 40 pound bike going 20mph when the rider is protected as well as I am, when there are 3 orders of magnitude more 4000 pound vehicles driving 45mph protected by a steel cage a.
(DIR) Post #Ai82GdYiCQOeQzjrvs by wh0sthatd0g@mstdn.party
2024-05-21T21:37:37Z
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@clive Observationally, I'm very happy to see how much independence ebikes seem to be providing to teens around my neighborhood. I do sometimes worry though, when I see kids zooming around after dark, they're not very visible but moving very fast, I worry about collisions with cars (who aren't always very cautious when driving around the neighborhood, and are often quiet now that EVs are getting more common here). Seems like a perfect combo for bad accidents. And, few bikers here wear helmets.
(DIR) Post #Ai85NWAmMI55PtW7SC by CathyTuttle@social.ridetrans.it
2024-05-21T22:12:29Z
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@clive If you are writing about ebikes I'm sure you know that #ebikes outsell non-ebikes in The Netherlands. In 2022, 486,000 of 855,000 new bikes sold were electric: hundreds of thousands of cargo delivery bikes, family bikes, and everyday get-around-the-city bikes.If ebikes make sense to people using flat, safe #Netherlands roads, surely they make even more sense to use on the hilly, car-clogged streets in the rest of the world.
(DIR) Post #Ai86dv3PibVjAiSNLk by skyfaller@jawns.club
2024-05-21T22:26:39Z
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@clive I do not have a car and use e-bikes as my primary mode of transportation. I think they're great, and in terms of safety, I'd rather be hit by any e-bike than any car.That said, e-bikes can legally go places that cars cannot legally go, so there are situations where I could be hit by an e-bike where cars are an unlikely danger. I worry about any bicycle going over 20mph on the same infrastructure as pedestrians, non-electric road bikes included, and e-bikes are heavier than road bikes.
(DIR) Post #Ai8HVFkkUQuwG3nRh2 by Transportist@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T00:28:19Z
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@clive cc @asymco
(DIR) Post #Ai8J2jI3n9WtNPu7sW by Tribear@mastodon.coffee
2024-05-22T00:45:08Z
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@clive Ebikes are not a new thing, I've been riding one for 12 years now. I built my own. What is new is regulation hasn't caught up with them yet. Where I live in Vancouver Canada, you are limited to speed of 32kph (20mph) max, and there are a lot of bikes here that are not street legal. I think that a proper ebike should be able to be pedaled at least 5km (3 miles) by an average person without motor assist. If you can't do that, it's not an ebike!
(DIR) Post #Ai8JpA1vg1xMD0S99k by lkanies@hachyderm.io
2024-05-22T00:53:51Z
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@clive glad you’re writing about this.But please, when you write about those concerns, clarify whether people are actually injured regularly, and clarify how many people have those concerns vs have those same concerns about, say, cars, which kill 40k Americans a year. So many articles about bikes just write about bikes, which becomes a platform for people’s irrational fears, with no space for pointing out how safe bikes are for the people around them vs the alternatives
(DIR) Post #Ai8K0Ssbw01Zr6U6SG by lkanies@hachyderm.io
2024-05-22T00:56:25Z
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@clive a bit like all the articles of my youth that talked about pot and alcohol, without bothering to mention that alcohol kills tens of thousands of Americans a year and pot kills roughly zero. Like, people’s fears should get kinda swamped by that reality
(DIR) Post #Ai8NrZyCbUFj3W7Otc by highvizghilliesuit@newsie.social
2024-05-22T01:39:36Z
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@cliveGonna shoot you an email about a real thing, but my main complaint is my fat ass can only do about 33mph on this. Slightly faster would be ideal to avoid assholes in cars who think I shouldn't be going 33 mph on a bicycle with a lawnmower battery attached to it. https://newsie.social/@highvizghilliesuit/112324428855344990
(DIR) Post #Ai8OOjFz62WPPlF7Q0 by carrots@toot.community
2024-05-22T01:45:35Z
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@clive licensing maybe necessary and limits on maximum speed. The best thing about e-bikes is the ease of climbing hills, everything else is redundant imo.
(DIR) Post #Ai8QTRHJZFA70lErOS by admin@mastodon.slightlycyberpunk.com
2024-05-22T02:08:51Z
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@clive @luis_in_brief yeah infrastructure is definitely an issue around here. It's getting more and more common while I'm walking around town to have some e-bike come whipping past me on a narrow sidewalk before I even hear them coming...which feels quite dangerous, if I stepped around a pole or hydrant or pile of trash at the wrong moment I suspect that would not go well for either of us...And I can understand why they don't want to be on the roadway...but the sidewalks are already insufficient too around here (assuming there is a sidewalk at all) so it's just a shit situation all around. They should probably slow down a bit though if they're gonna be on sidewalks...
(DIR) Post #Ai8QqRwlFRcTkFb5yS by scokop@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T02:13:03Z
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@clive I think bikes going too fast close to pedestrians is an issue. I don’t know that limiting the power of an E bike motor is the right way to solve that problem though. This YouTuber makes a pretty good point about that. https://youtu.be/7xQlpDo5bHg?si=NjS2BlZ8CgbKtstW
(DIR) Post #Ai8kczE8iL83zVaFFo by LabSpokane@mas.to
2024-05-22T05:54:44Z
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@clive The only “problem” with e-bikes is the same problem with all bikes: a lack of infrastructure. The rest of the “problems” are problems of perception that seem to exist solely in the minds of retro-grouches on the interwebs. E-bikes are a total game changer. They truly are a three-season car replacement. An e-bike just turned my 26 mile teeth-gritting car commute into a pleasure cruise. And it really only takes and extra 25 minutes on each end.
(DIR) Post #Ai8qg3f7HRpOL938lc by strayhorse@c.im
2024-05-22T07:02:29Z
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@clive I bought my first ebike back in 2020 off craigslist from a woman who received it as a retirement gift. Ironically she had worked in the oil industry in Alberta and moved here to Vancouver Island. It was a fat tire ebike with a throttle and pedal assist (iGo Fat Freddy). The ebike only had 13kms on it (a common thing it seems, elderly folks selling ebikes with really low usage!). She said it just wasn’t her thing. I rode it for a few years, basically using it for getting groceries and errands instead of driving our little Honda Fit. I think ebikes are certainly way better than electric cars, which seem to use too many resources to build. I found the fat tire ebike too heavy, large and way too much tire on pavement friction. It was like riding a tank. However, I don’t regret buying it, as it got me (and our family) into ebiking. I sold that beast last year and found a Cube Ella for sale from a retired woman in Victoria. It only had 7kms on it and she had bought it for $4500. I bought it for $3k and love it. Pedal assist only, which is great. I see the benefits of a throttle, but I don’t need that on an ebike. And the tires on my Ella are only 1.5” x 28” compared to 4.5” x 20” on the fat tire bike. We live rurally so getting groceries is a 10km round trip. Lots of highway and rural backroad cruising. Very hilly too, so an ebike is great. Our daughter tried my old fat tire ebike and got the ebike bug. So she found a retired woman who had hip surgery and was selling her almost new Velec A2 for half what she paid for it with only 120kms on the bike. Our daughter rides it all the time, getting groceries, visiting friends, library runs etc. Then my partner bought her first ebike a few weeks ago. It’s a Cube Sport Supreme Hybrid One 400. The bike shop was clearing out all last year’s models, so they knocked $1000 off the price and she got it new for $3k. So now our family rides all the time, as much as we can. Rural riding is pretty good compared with city riding, so ebikes seem a great fit for our usage. I can see how city riding would be pretty stressful. I’ve ridden motorbikes and bicycles all my life, and driven vehicles commercially, so defensive riding is a must for me. I wear extreme bright hi-visibility clothing all the time, along with a good helmet. Staying safe out there. And I wrote a song about my Cube Ella a few months ago… https://youtu.be/71Hj37uQ8JM?si=3nghxFozbbw-InJR
(DIR) Post #Ai8s1JDcjj0Scht4a0 by strayhorse@c.im
2024-05-22T07:17:33Z
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@clive The BC government had an ebike subsidy program last year. Apparently they got completely swamped. I’m somewhere on their massive wait list. No announcement of a new program this year. https://bcebikerebates.ca/
(DIR) Post #Ai9DWUFLsojQq9P5RQ by sufficiency@mstdn.social
2024-05-22T11:18:28Z
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@clive I’ve got a heavier e-bike (75lbs) because I’m a bigger person and couldn’t ride the smaller ones. I have many years of experience bike commuting in large cities (mostly Toronto) before I gave up biking in my mid-30s due to knee pain. Now in my late 40s I’m back in the saddle. I slow way down on bike paths when passing people, but have had a couple scares when people walk onto the path from behind a bush and aren’t expecting someone going so fast.
(DIR) Post #Ai9dqL7o6Y6x9L0AnA by JKrotkov@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T16:13:23Z
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@clive this site has a lot of links to articles and studies about wildlife/outdoor recreation interaction. Its a little outdated, but it could get you started!https://conservationnw.org/our-work/wildlands/recreation/
(DIR) Post #Ai9u2sjUZlXI7kdBnk by cbowns@xoxo.zone
2024-05-22T19:14:55Z
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@clive the subreddit (r/Bend) is also very active; if you were looking for feedback from parents on the new laws, I’m sure you’d get lots of comments
(DIR) Post #AiA6dS8zasObpDlOxU by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:36:00Z
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@spots1000 @RustyBertrand Oh crap! What were the barriers in your case?That's bad
(DIR) Post #AiA6u6qc1iU4hM6oE4 by tim@phire.place
2024-05-21T19:11:19Z
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@clive the idea I come back to is that roads, lights, stop signs, sidewalks, crosswalks, etc., are all a system. We’re asking everyone to follow the rules for everyone’s benefit. And sometimes those rules can bend for pedestrians and cyclists at low weights and speeds, but it’s still dangerous! A car swerving out of its way to avoid you going the wrong way on the road is dangerous, even if you’re not the danger. And the more weight and speed you have, the more dangerous you become.
(DIR) Post #AiA6u8AV7FzGnKQCrg by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:38:13Z
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@tim yep yepAnd all these systems were assembled and tweaked and refined for decades with the chief goal of automobile throughput ...(... to the point where many models of intersections and traffic didn't even include pedestrians lol ...)... so rejiggering them for things other than automobiles is hard; it goes against the grain of what the systems were created to do
(DIR) Post #AiA6zABL3c2gUHDHUG by burritojustice@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T19:26:04Z
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@luis_in_brief @clive I seriously think older generations view all cyclists like messengers or roadies from the 80s, swerving about, and in their disdain they are unwilling / unable to acknowledge that e-bikes have fundamentally changed ridership demographics and patterns. *way* more women ride now — I suspect cargo bike ridership is split 50/50 between moms and dads
(DIR) Post #AiA6zBaBqhW0pdqdrU by luis_in_brief@social.coop
2024-05-21T21:09:08Z
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@burritojustice @clive that was sort of my assumption too, but boy… some of the socal e-motorcycle teenagers would have made great messengers in the 80s, except with lower odds of the package getting to its destination.
(DIR) Post #AiA6zCu4wF1CvcA2V6 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:38:48Z
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@luis_in_brief @burritojustice 😂
(DIR) Post #AiA75KBYmFCHFaFqro by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:39:13Z
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@burritojustice @luis_in_brief yep yep -- I believe I've seen stats on ebikes having a higher ridership by women than traditional bikes
(DIR) Post #AiA7DWG3m8dp0eGcPQ by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:40:14Z
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@burritojustice @luis_in_brief true!
(DIR) Post #AiA7LZ4HDCiG2bakoy by RustyBertrand@social.vivaldi.net
2024-05-21T19:33:52Z
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@spots1000 @clive At this point I'd need a recumbent bike, it would be so nice to go out and do photography again.I can still walk about half a block. But they've removed benches, so yeah, going nowhere.Price, $2k +50% taxAbout the same for an Ebike in Iceland.This country is nuts. Do not put tarrifs on Chinese goods. You'll end up like us.
(DIR) Post #AiA7LZvo0BWyicdVFw by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:41:45Z
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@RustyBertrand @spots1000 recumbent bikes are pricey yeahThey are pretty radI've met a lot of cyclists on long intercity jaunts who have mobility issues that absolutely rule out a traditional bikebut they can ride an incumbent very very far
(DIR) Post #AiA7TCnft34jINTBke by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:43:27Z
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@billyjoebowers Yep to both of thesethe proprietary hardware and connections on some are just awful, as many VanMoof owners discovered
(DIR) Post #AiA7gSKLTA25DS4N9s by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:45:48Z
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@avuko @John @timbray 😅
(DIR) Post #AiA7jvFUOathmeS1wG by GPJohnston@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T18:41:39Z
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@JKrotkov @clive Some of the ebikes I've seen on my regular walks are pretty fast, and users often don't slow down on pedestrian paths. Was on a pedestrian causeway last summer and saw two ladies each with a dog on leash scream at an ebiker who barely missed them, "slow down!" Saw a guy on an electric bike this morning on the same causeway going full tilt, if it wasn't 30 mph it was close. There were few pedestrians at the time though. Conflicts I'm sure will increase as ebike use does.
(DIR) Post #AiA7jwPo3ikDOwHmeu by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:44:24Z
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@GPJohnston @JKrotkov yowsa, yeah, trail bombing like that is bad bad news
(DIR) Post #AiA7oxjkZYUKwr0bQG by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:46:34Z
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@Adoxography those are huge!Yeah, we don't have many yet here in the US
(DIR) Post #AiA7vlg7nuKjZoYfMO by paninid@mastodon.world
2024-05-22T21:44:22Z
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@clive @tim Chuck Marohn of #StrongTowns introduced to me the idea of “#ForgivingDesign” in the sense that our modern built environment is designed as a system to forgive errors of users operating cars (e.g. freeway exit embankments to backup cameras to anti-lock brakes).This same concept could - and should - be applied to e-bikes.
(DIR) Post #AiA88YNmY5qc6Z4iMi by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:48:01Z
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@JessicaTaylor Yep yep, the dangers to bikes and pedestrians from cars is still much higher
(DIR) Post #AiA8E2z6CPigSl9Jjc by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:47:16Z
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@intrepidhero Yeah, I've been reading about the issues of larger, heavier bikes on trails ... education does seem to be key
(DIR) Post #AiA8X1n4rWSMGJZpuC by wh0sthatd0g@mstdn.party
2024-05-21T21:46:15Z
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@clive Personally, I've thought about getting an ebike to replace short car trips, but bike infrastructure in my city is so poor, it's very fragmented, so very few of the places I want to travel to have safe end-to-end routes. In some scenarios I would feel a bit safer on an ebike than a traditional bike, simply bc of size + speed, but in many places I would feel unsafe regardless. Also many places don't have bike racks, so I'd be afraid of it being stolen, or just not knowing where to put it.
(DIR) Post #AiA8X2MAl2Ws19zrbk by wh0sthatd0g@mstdn.party
2024-05-21T21:48:54Z
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@clive Fwiw, I think the infrastructure issues will be solved over time. There's a ton of ebike adoption locally and the city seems to be gradually adding safer bike lanes. It's just not at a stage right now where it's actually useful for me yet.
(DIR) Post #AiA8X2kzGmNXG7bgHo by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:53:18Z
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@wh0sthatd0g I think so tooI've seen a lot of movement in my hometowns of Brooklyn and NYC ...... and I've cycled through scores of towns and cities all across the US, and been pleasantly surprised with some frequency about how much exists, in towns of extremely diverse sizes and locations
(DIR) Post #AiA8X3IfFZJiwZMZmK by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:53:48Z
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@wh0sthatd0g Like, not *enough*! But far more than I'd expect, with a trajectory upwards
(DIR) Post #AiA8a8TEU0G9qemDGi by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:50:27Z
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@wh0sthatd0g Not wearing a helmet in an urban environment cycling is pretty nutsMy teenage sons are both very experienced urban cyclists, but both have -- at one point -- taken a header over the handlebars (unforced accidents, caused by their own piloting, as they explained to me), and in both cases the edge of their helmets kept their head from hitting the pavementWould have been *much* worse without helmets
(DIR) Post #AiA8bOnpFJ4un70lCC by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:51:54Z
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@wh0sthatd0g Yep, I've heard exactly people who would like to get an ebike tell me they face exactly those two problems too!very few US towns are set up to make regular cycling for commuting and errands safe and reliable
(DIR) Post #AiA8uvFepGImvpL4ZE by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:54:54Z
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@CathyTuttle I knew that generally about parts of europe but don't think I knew it about the Netherlands specifically yet -- good to know!and omg yes re: hilly citiesSeattle here in the US, and parts of San Franciso, are really really hard to navigate by regular bike
(DIR) Post #AiA913jwBAJQzmQcWO by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:55:38Z
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@rvaweather 100%, I hear this a lot from people!They'd enjoy riding, but right now it requires being a daredevil, and embracing too much physical risk
(DIR) Post #AiA92yHhQvQsef8FWq by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T21:56:04Z
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@skyfaller Yep -- same here on both counts!
(DIR) Post #AiA970e0bLp78FUb0i by wh0sthatd0g@mstdn.party
2024-05-22T21:59:07Z
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@clive Yep, unfortunately it's very common in SoCal for people to bike around casually and not wear any helmets
(DIR) Post #AiA9Ee2qVdjtMFkbtQ by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T22:00:27Z
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@t54r4n1 I'm definitely not writing that type of piece 😅 at least I don't think!I'm a big fan of all forms of mobility that get people to rely less on big dangerous heavy polluting cars and trucks
(DIR) Post #AiA9PiXk7o3yUjTyIC by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T22:02:32Z
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@Tribear nope, not new at all -- first patents are back in 1895! And the current boom ushered in by lighter-weight lithium-ion barriers goes back to the late 00sThat's an intriguing way of defining the bike-ness of an ebike!
(DIR) Post #AiA9WAdaaGPdMhIHwG by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T22:03:07Z
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@lkanies Roger thatThis isn't a piece that's a jeremiad against ebikes, or which ignores the danger of cars
(DIR) Post #AiA9cruya5uFKncX9k by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T22:03:33Z
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@lkanies yep, 100%
(DIR) Post #AiA9qEMaRPyWiCuH9E by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T22:04:53Z
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@carrots offering help on hills is really a big deal, agreedIt's why ebikes are the thing that appear to be getting a ton of folks riding who otherwise might never do so
(DIR) Post #AiA9zGGwiGCnEsZg6S by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T22:06:21Z
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@the5thColumnist @dougiec3 I have a loaner ebike, and I think I can detect myself going a little bit faster on average too when I ride itSo much so that I need to check myself to make sure I'm not being dangerous to myself or others here in the city
(DIR) Post #AiAAMpNWM6Z6mLt3gm by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T22:08:00Z
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@admin @luis_in_brief yikes, bikes of any sort (piloting by adults, at least) shouldn't be ridden on sidewalks at all! Way too dangerous to pedestrian
(DIR) Post #AiAASyMzq1WsP3ZWGe by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T22:08:30Z
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@scokop I'll check that out, thank you!
(DIR) Post #AiAAaSHj0t0tD4frTE by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T22:10:57Z
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@Butterbee Yeah, this is exactly the right point -- without good infrastructure, things are dangerous all around
(DIR) Post #AiAAgd83blqsa0634i by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T22:11:38Z
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@LabSpokane Yep, I'm really impressed by how capable they are and how much they open up mobility for the people who ride 'emIt's infrastructure all the way down
(DIR) Post #AiAAlhCVtdzQekb2cC by scokop@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T02:07:51Z
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@the5thColumnist @clive @dougiec3 this is similar to my experience. My top speed on a normal bike versus an electric bike would be about the same. My average speed on an electric bike would be faster on average because it’s easier to keep it at speed.I don’t see weight of e-bikes versus normal bikes as a big issue. The extra weight of an ebike would be smaller than the variation of weight in riders. One rider could be 150 pounds heavier than another.
(DIR) Post #AiAAliNBXS7WI8b4t6 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T22:06:45Z
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@scokop @the5thColumnist @dougiec3 Interesting point about the weight differences of riders
(DIR) Post #AiAAtbXMpzovPK7c9I by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T22:22:15Z
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@strayhorse Very cool story!!So great that you've found it useful for all the shopping and errands!
(DIR) Post #AiAAzXZCVpwipZoH68 by strayhorse@c.im
2024-05-22T07:20:55Z
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@clive Another blurb about the BC ebike subsidy program. https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2023MOTI0071-000804
(DIR) Post #AiAAzYxLLYqt8k74Mq by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T22:22:35Z
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@strayhorse Thank you!
(DIR) Post #AiAB9vpRA7aSyQMKoa by migurski@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T22:24:39Z
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@clive @tim “Level Of Service” is such a wild liehttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_service_(transportation)
(DIR) Post #AiABtWet4nu0EMAKMC by strayhorse@c.im
2024-05-22T22:34:58Z
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@clive Definitely getting closer to replacing the car with an ebike. It’s really cutting down on our use of fossil fuels in a big way, even living in a rural country setting.
(DIR) Post #AiAFQNT0ZTrX8rxwBs by sufficiency@mstdn.social
2024-05-22T11:21:27Z
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@clive the most scary thing though has been drivers who seem to feel threatened by my speed and will stop at nothing to put me in my place. Have been aggressively closely passed while doing 20mph in a 20mph zone, and passed on the left while I’m signaling and turning left from the left hand side of the lane.
(DIR) Post #AiAFQOgs1QXqw9SWR6 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T23:14:29Z
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@sufficiency Yep -- drivers who seem too willing to endanger cyclists are terrifying and incredibly dangerous
(DIR) Post #AiAFX2MZQv6tiV87zk by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T23:15:38Z
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@paninid @tim Aha, that's such an interesting coinage -- not heard of it before! Thank you
(DIR) Post #AiAFeDnvIGOvECLkuW by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T23:15:47Z
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@wh0sthatd0g gaaaah
(DIR) Post #AiAFqe71J5CIIPCsa0 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T23:14:51Z
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@JKrotkov Thank you!
(DIR) Post #AiAG0ONudVb0PhktlY by Tribear@mastodon.coffee
2024-05-22T22:06:56Z
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@clive I am of course speaking to these huge ebikes with fat tires that are bigger than some motorbikes, and the scooters that have joke pedals attached to them so they can qualify as ebikes. <rant off>
(DIR) Post #AiAG0PVkRrSRuIQfcO by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T23:15:59Z
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@Tribear trulythose things really don't resemble "bicycles"
(DIR) Post #AiAG6IZb9kPk7w2OnI by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-22T23:17:45Z
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@strayhorse Right onAlso, you folks out in rural areas have *much* cleaner air for riding than we do here in Brooklynhack, cough
(DIR) Post #AiAGCGDOpuVMYEUtYu by paninid@mastodon.world
2024-05-22T23:18:23Z
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@clive @tim If you Google “forgiving design”, the first 2-3 pages were about golf clubs and tennis rackets (i.e. to forgive the error of the user), but the origin is in traffic engineering.
(DIR) Post #AiAOdh9FbhBtXD9KCW by admin@mastodon.slightlycyberpunk.com
2024-05-23T00:57:40Z
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@clive @luis_in_brief Yeahh, but only a road like this there is really no good place for bikes...or pedestrians...or humans in generally really.And actually it looks way better in the picture than it usually does in person...can't really see the trash and potholes and other obstacles lol, but yeah especially on the sidewalk on the right side with those massive bushes...and parts of that aren't even paved unless you count the mosaic of broken beer bottles lol
(DIR) Post #AiAScwSla61cYlArJo by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-23T01:42:26Z
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@paninid @tim cool cool
(DIR) Post #AiASqBaceT8JEsAE2y by admin@mastodon.slightlycyberpunk.com
2024-05-23T01:24:11Z
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@clive @luis_in_brief ironically there is a lovely bike path which ends right behind that vacant lot...pretty sure it runs at least twenty miles...but it's sandwiched between the river and the railroad tracks. Any cross streets just bridge right over all of it. Evely five miles or so there's a parking lot but those are the only places to get on or off the path. Completely useless as transportation. I think most people drive there to bike to nowhere and then drive back home...
(DIR) Post #AiASqCleGxXytMKXs8 by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-23T01:44:19Z
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@admin @luis_in_brief Damn, that's frustrating design
(DIR) Post #AiASuY6srbMuF7Knom by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-23T01:44:57Z
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@sixthhokage95 Cool! What's it like navigating the roads out there?
(DIR) Post #AiAgRKWVhLjZ45HZj6 by hanktank61@NerdJoy.social
2024-05-23T04:17:13Z
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@clive As seen from a Dutch point of view: E-bike is fine, but in a bike-country like The Netherlands there are problems with it in the busier cities.Young kids on tuned fast fat-bikes mixing with older people also e-biking, thinking they still have control at age 80 like the younger ones.My sis-in-law e-bikes in Hamilton,-Ontario to her work.± 20 minutes. On the pavements, few bike-paths.But I do read about other US/Can. cities working hard to improve infrastructure.
(DIR) Post #AiAhQKjjWHVdOIYXPU by infrathin@lor.sh
2024-05-23T04:27:23Z
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@clive ebikes are motor bikes and should be regulated like motor bikes. An electric motor is still a motor, and 30mph can kill a pedestrian. I have walked freely in the streets of New York City for over three decades. Only in the past few years have I ever felt unsafe/experienced close calls, and its always because of ebikes. Utterly silent. Operator not skilled enough for the speeds they can muster, and liable to go the wrong way on one way streets, ride on sidewalks, and run red lights.
(DIR) Post #AiCaUtfpFvvdXcsRma by saprentice@mastodon.social
2024-05-24T02:20:01Z
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@clive @AnneTheWriter1 When used appropriately and responsibly, it’s great, but since humans have the tendency to push everything to its limit, in the wrong hands it can be a dangerous weapon. Unfortunately, most of the e-bikes I see are ridden by teenage boys who seem to enjoy terrorizing people. I also see e-mountainbikes ridden by people who have no concern for people around them, other bikers and walkers. Mostly selfish people. I like the idea, and hope my experience isn’t the norm.
(DIR) Post #AiCjP2jLZMOXTqo8VE by clive@saturation.social
2024-05-24T03:58:34Z
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@saprentice @AnneTheWriter1 I've read a bit about hikers and acoustic-bikers dealing with inexperienced e-mountain-bikersit sounds complex for sure!
(DIR) Post #AiCkVgAPxRINTzCKwK by saprentice@mastodon.social
2024-05-24T04:12:14Z
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@clive @AnneTheWriter1 These aren’t “inexperienced” e-Mountainbikers. Sadly, just selfish people who want to go fast.
(DIR) Post #AiPmM2KnPWbQIj3rJQ by chrisaraymond@me.dm
2024-05-30T11:03:41Z
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@clive I'm a retired senior, and realize at some point I might have to give up driving (already minimal, 7 YO car with <20k miles). The only option for being able to go car free is being able to afford to live in an urban or urbanized suburb w good transit & high walkability score. IOW: expensive. That's where I live now & reluctant to leave even w living expenses going up & income not. Ebikes aren't a terribly safe solution for people in their 70s and 80s.
(DIR) Post #AiPmTTzUz04y6SeNG4 by chrisaraymond@me.dm
2024-05-30T11:05:30Z
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@clive My concerns are safety in the "road warrior" culture of urbanized areas, weight, expense, and safety for me as I don't see out of my left eye, so can't see oncoming vehicles or other bikes behind me.
(DIR) Post #AiU085E7hvDum8upjE by rowmyboat@glammr.us
2024-06-01T11:56:29Z
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@clive I generally think e-bikes are good. My concern, especially in dense places like NYC, where I used to live, is that the connection between speed & skill/experience is broken. Which makes e-bike riders able to go fast (thereby causing worse crashes) without the skill riding an analog bike long enough to get fast generally confers (thereby preventing crashes). The answer is speed limiters built into bikes, I guess, probably around 15mph.
(DIR) Post #AiWKvjPLUUUyz32Ic4 by MarkT322@mas.to
2024-06-01T20:19:57Z
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@LabSpokane @clive 4 seasons! They really eliminate the summer sweat issues (unfortunately they don't help with kids having summer camp in remote locations 😔)
(DIR) Post #AiWKvkkeUl8V9Q0pSi by clive@saturation.social
2024-06-02T14:59:21Z
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@LabSpokane @MarkT322 True indeed about arriving where you’re going without being in a flop sweat
(DIR) Post #AiWKzboTfZCoaUdl6e by clive@saturation.social
2024-06-02T15:00:01Z
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@atthenius @rowmyboat Precisely The roads need to evolve to accommodate the new mixture of vehicles that people are embracing