Post Ai7wsp3FJs1fMBqVYu by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #Ai63tOchNJn12mjHVY by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T22:47:06Z
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Do you believe that the bourgeoisie should suffer for their crimes against humanity, or do you just want to remove them from their positions of power and focus on creating a new society out of the ashes of capitalism without seeking revenge?
(DIR) Post #Ai63z4GBzswHcuuHIW by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2024-05-20T22:48:01Z
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@Radical_EgoCom wait can people see that I voted
(DIR) Post #Ai646etoAltTHt3YIa by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T22:49:29Z
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@screwtape No, no one can see who you voted for.
(DIR) Post #Ai6492P5kpGKlTp6y8 by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2024-05-20T22:49:51Z
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@Radical_EgoCom phew
(DIR) Post #Ai649SZcSJ8FvewszI by OGjester@stranger.social
2024-05-20T22:49:53Z
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@Radical_EgoCom third option: eat them
(DIR) Post #Ai64CNCUt9BS8MWTZo by nlupo@xno.social
2024-05-20T22:50:29Z
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@Radical_EgoCom revenge is a good start, but not a good motivator in a long run. It exhausts you over time and does not provide anything constructive, so you should not rely on it too much.
(DIR) Post #Ai64EgbxgtWMukXKca by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T22:50:56Z
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@OGjester I think eating them would definitely count as a nutritional form of revenge.
(DIR) Post #Ai64zxRKwLZSiZ6jU8 by gooba42@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T22:59:29Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Should, yes.My job to enforce it, no.It is unfair that so many can do so much harm and never reap any of what they've sown. I just don't know that we can and the cycles of violence and oppression by starting a new one.
(DIR) Post #Ai65akkh4lNw58htq4 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T23:06:08Z
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@gooba42 I agree that it would be unfair for them to not suffer at all, but when it comes to a situation like this the focus shouldn't be a matter of fair or unfair, but beneficial or harmful to society. In the long run, punishing the bourgeoisie would be harmful to society because it would involve creating another system of punishment-based justice and would perpetuate the existing cycle of violence, hindering the post-capitalist society from flourishing.
(DIR) Post #Ai66wNSYSQiCAN67vM by gooba42@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T23:21:15Z
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@Radical_EgoCom We trusted that Capitalism would cure all and when it didn't work, we never went back to fix it. The invisible hand always favors the richer party, there is no fairness in it whatsoever.Retribution isn't necessarily productive but throwing away fairness as a guiding principle altogether isn't necessarily sustainable either.
(DIR) Post #Ai6Wef0x33CACuOoAC by ramin_hal9001@emacs.ch
2024-05-21T04:09:21Z
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> "Do you believe that the bourgeoisie should suffer for their crimes against humanity, or do you just want to remove them from their positions of power"@Radical_EgoCom it is not either or, its both. There should be laws and justice, and if justice is to be served some of the worst offenders today should be put on trial. Others aren't so bad, just accomplices to the powerful, show mercy to them.
(DIR) Post #Ai6XFVFoIeC4eOuvQG by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T04:16:01Z
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@ramin_hal9001 I don't see punishment for crime to be justifiable in any context because it perpetuates cycles of harm and fails to address the root causes of criminal behavior. Instead, restorative justice solutions should be pursued to rehabilitate individuals. I see this as more practical than punishment because it leads to long-term social harmony and reducing recidivism by addressing the underlying issues that contribute to crime.
(DIR) Post #Ai6XUUjMWmpPN4t8xk by ramin_hal9001@emacs.ch
2024-05-21T04:18:42Z
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@Radical_EgoCom I am talking more about the people who start wars and commit genocide. There should be no statute of limitations, they should be tried and convicted, even posthumously if necessary.
(DIR) Post #Ai6XnLG1yMxtUd9j2e by asbestos@toot.community
2024-05-21T04:22:08Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @ramin_hal9001Certainly true, and definitely the punishment does not reflect the harm to society. Bu tthere are some people who are just assholes
(DIR) Post #Ai6fQuMc591TLV3488 by jeremy_list@hachyderm.io
2024-05-21T05:47:43Z
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@Radical_EgoCom my anti-suffering stance does extend to enemies but often removing people from positions of power takes priority over whether not they'll survive the removal process let alone whether or not they'll enjoy it.
(DIR) Post #Ai6nWqtwfQe1yhz6ci by jhulten@fosstodon.org
2024-05-21T07:18:26Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Their removal from power will feel like punishment, even if it is just returning to equality.
(DIR) Post #Ai734yzmZvAQEwRoi8 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T10:12:41Z
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@ramin_hal9001 I'm referring to all crimes, even heinous ones like genocide. In self-defense I think it's justified to use violence against them, but once all power has been taken away from them the next step should be an intense process of restorative justice and also surveillance to watch these individuals. If all the resources and time that are currently used to punish people today were used for this purpose, it would be more than possible and far more efficient at actually stopping crime.
(DIR) Post #Ai7KJCiO45xY45g6cq by Jamezytee@musicians.today
2024-05-20T22:57:41Z
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@Radical_EgoCom lol, I'm afraid to answer this.. 😅
(DIR) Post #Ai7ODAz5zBFamEsHT6 by scottmatter@aus.social
2024-05-21T14:09:26Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Revenge really only leads to resentment. Look at Gaza.
(DIR) Post #Ai7SEKyAkLRXqrFfkW by ordosmarkzero@ravenation.club
2024-05-21T14:54:11Z
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@Radical_EgoCom somewhere in the middle?I don't think it's right to condemn an entire class of people so it would depend on the individuals' culpability?I also don't really agree with a criminal justice system that focuses on inflicting suffering, but I don't see a way of removing people from a position of power that doesn't result in suffering if they resist said removal.
(DIR) Post #Ai7SicCxDdY20FbTsm by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T14:59:46Z
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@ordosmarkzero I'm not speaking of the "suffering" the bourgeoisie will experience from having their societal and economic privileges taken away and being treated as equals, which isn't actually suffering; its literally reactance. I'm speaking of punishment inflicted onto these people after their power has been taken away.
(DIR) Post #Ai7U9TlqnPoTbnIdcG by ordosmarkzero@ravenation.club
2024-05-21T15:14:10Z
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@Radical_EgoCom No I get that and agree that it wouldn't be suffering for them to be treated equally, but I do think some would violently resist having privileges taken away which is where I meant the suffering would occur.but after that?not really sure. like I said I think it depends on what each individual's culpability was and also how they behaved after.I don't think suffering should be the goal of a justice system but I'm not sure it's possible to have one without some amount of it.
(DIR) Post #Ai7UkPZzLH0DK9MV3g by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T15:21:24Z
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@ordosmarkzero I'm specifically talking about punishment, the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense, not suffering, a subjective term that will no doubt exist in some nebulous form for as long as there are people who disagree with the way a certain system functions, which the bourgeoisie most definitely will disagree as their society forcefully abolishes capitalism.
(DIR) Post #Ai7VJfCrEXNnvRLtUu by ordosmarkzero@ravenation.club
2024-05-21T15:27:51Z
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@Radical_EgoCom right I'm with you, so I think in some cases some kind of punishment would be necessary but I'm unsure of what would it be? but not something inhumane.what would your position be?
(DIR) Post #Ai7Vt0Xrt72kF526vw by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T15:34:20Z
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@ordosmarkzero Punishment, I don't think, would be necessary or preferable. Not necessary because restorative justice is far superior of a method of eliminating crime and dealing with harmful people, and not preferable because having any justice system that applies punishment as a deterent would only perpetuate the very behavior it would be trying to eliminate.
(DIR) Post #Ai7WaPRtAmCnvnvpia by ordosmarkzero@ravenation.club
2024-05-21T15:41:43Z
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@Radical_EgoCom I can definitely see that being a better approach, I would also agree punishment as a deterrent is ineffective and doesn't do much/anything to eliminate crime.I need to do more reading on restorative justice.
(DIR) Post #Ai7aNFBKQyFw8mACLA by simonthevampyre@mstdn.games
2024-05-21T16:25:01Z
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@Radical_EgoCom I imagine they'd consider being removed from their positions of power – with no possibility of ever regaining them – punishment enough on its own.
(DIR) Post #Ai7cR4Zo0PjQJdZ9G4 by nurglerider@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T16:47:56Z
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@Radical_EgoCom I wouldn't call it revenge, I'd call it justice.
(DIR) Post #Ai7eYZzvmQ01hdUdOq by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T17:11:39Z
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@nurglerider Revenge undermines the social harmony and collective well-being that revolution entails by perpetuating the cycle of violence and power imbalances that originated in capitalism. Revenge focuses on individual retaliation, which doesn't resolve systemic issues at all.
(DIR) Post #Ai7tQ03P29EbDiU4AK by nurglerider@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T19:59:08Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Which is why I said justice. Justice =/= Revenge.You can call it revenge if you want, but you would be wrong.No amount of "be nice to the former capitalists who made life hell for everyone and ruined the planet" is going to cut it.
(DIR) Post #Ai7uJ0L1g7Ug1qxI3s by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T20:09:02Z
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@nurglerider No, I wouldn't be wrong to label a form of justice that involves making transgressors suffer revenge; that would be a very clear display of revenge.I disagree with the use of any kind of punitive measures against former capitalists after the revolution. Replicating the same kind of harm and suffering and, in turn, perpetuating it just because they deserve it doesn't seem worth it.
(DIR) Post #Ai7ucj5NX2f8JU2Yy0 by nurglerider@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T20:12:39Z
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@Radical_EgoCom The only person claiming replication of the same kind of harm and suffering is you. I'm asking for actual Justice, NOT revenge but you continue to force your bias on me.This is the very problem I was trying to point out with your incredibly biased "poll". You assume a position and force that position on everyone else because of your bias. Forcing everyone to choose from "forgive them" and "ReVEnGe".
(DIR) Post #Ai7vcHycQGFYBrEYrY by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T20:23:46Z
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@nurglerider Mercy isn't the same thing as forgiveness. Mercy is more about the actions of withholding deserved punishment or harm, often in a legal or authoritative context, while forgiveness is about resolving emotional grievances and restoring relationships. Mercy and justice can coexist. Mercy doesn't abolish justice. It ensures that the enforcement of justice maintains a humane nature, so it doesn't just become making a person suffer for suffering sake.
(DIR) Post #Ai7vqYjIvqqqCdsKMS by nurglerider@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T20:26:21Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Which would be fair enough. But the implication of the word is that they would face zero consequences for their actions. I firmly believe in real justice and I think rehabilitation rather than punitive punishment is the correct answer.But at some level they MUST face consequences for what they have done to humanity and the planet. To do otherwise would be unjust.
(DIR) Post #Ai7wsp3FJs1fMBqVYu by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-21T20:37:59Z
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@nurglerider Of course, they should face consequences. Once capitalism is abolished, former capitalists should not be allowed to hold any kind of political or influential power, be required to participate in re-education programs and community service, and all sorts of restrictions should be in place to prevent them or anybody from accumulating wealth and gaining economic power.
(DIR) Post #Ai7xFAO2fwbTtlEAlM by derfwhapper@toot.io
2024-05-21T20:41:57Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @nurglerider but also, create systems which make hoarding or false-scarcity ineffective. so someone can't own every home/all the water/internet/etcUBI is a big thing there but UBI is useless if inflationary bullshit drags it down, but if you had some kind of cleverly structured housing market maybe you could make it so you never NEED that much money to always afford an adequate dwellingsorryrambling
(DIR) Post #Ai8ccIPN79GPYczsqO by TanyaGKasim@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T04:25:35Z
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@Radical_EgoCom How can we remove the bourgeoise from positions of power with mercy if they keep coming back every four years? Remember after Obama was elected in 2008 and before he was sworn in as President in 2009? Someone mut have told him not to have Bush's people investigated and tried for crimes against humanity. That hasn't changed.
(DIR) Post #Ai8fRiIKpPxoWJLpqK by coldfish@sfba.social
2024-05-22T04:57:17Z
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@Radical_EgoCom I think the problem isn't the bourgeoisie. They're just playing the game the ruling class has set down for us to play. It's like how the owner of a medieval inn would support the king and dukes because, for them, that's who makes their life better. But the reality is that the ruling classes enjoy the poor blaming the merchant classes while they sit back and watch..
(DIR) Post #Ai8oqXkQ4uDIdVOzui by yoshir@lor.sh
2024-05-22T06:42:37Z
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@Radical_EgoComPunishment should have a purpose. I doubt that revenge will either teach them a valuable lesson or prevent further harm (since they already thrown over)
(DIR) Post #Ai97pEJIl66dBwnyq0 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T10:15:16Z
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@TanyaGKasim That's a strawman of my argument. I don't want to "remove the bourgeoisie with mercy," as if such a thing were possible. By "show them mercy," I mean the bourgeoisie shouldn't be murdered or tortured after they've been stripped of their power. I do think they should have their political autonomy restricted and go through some form of re-education, along with many other things, to prevent them from gaining power again.
(DIR) Post #Ai98CZMsdHkbA4bloG by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T10:19:29Z
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@coldfish The bourgeoisie is the ruling class. This class owns and controls the means of production, such as factories, land, and capital. They derive their power and wealth from the exploitation of the working class, or proletariat, who sell their labor to the bourgeoisie. This economic power translates into political and social influence, allowing the bourgeoisie to shape laws, policies, and cultural norms in ways that maintain and reinforce their dominance over society.
(DIR) Post #Ai98neT4dNjLh2Bg92 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T10:26:06Z
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@katievm You're sort of ignoring the context of the scenario presented. I'm not talking about the process of removing the bourgeoisie from their positions of power, which will likely be violent, I'm talking about after they have been completely removed of all of their positions of power. Once that has happened, the question is would you subject them to suffering (such as murder, torture, imprisonment, etc), or would you refrain from getting revenge and instead focus on building the new society?
(DIR) Post #Ai9JwXeURZfaejy8Qa by liquid_clear@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T12:31:04Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @coldfish the working class can't afford their own cops
(DIR) Post #Ai9KTdNm9vYvz7vlGS by fcktheworld587@social.linux.pizza
2024-05-22T12:37:02Z
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@Radical_EgoCom I don't necessarily think we need "revenge" against the bourgeoisie, but I don't think we can expect at all to make meaningful moves towards a better world while their lungs still draw breath
(DIR) Post #Ai9LQ2PPGnOyOlXh1k by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T12:47:36Z
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@fcktheworld587 It's not necessary to kill all of the bourgeoisie. Some of them may die during the actual overthrow of capitalism, but once everything is set and done, there's no need to continue the violence by executing them.
(DIR) Post #Ai9MLJyccoVrOIKSQ4 by fcktheworld587@social.linux.pizza
2024-05-22T12:57:57Z
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@kkarhan @Radical_EgoCom I agree, and I think that it is for the reason of defense. Once removed from power, they will spend all of their time and resources trying to regain it, and intentionally sow instability - which is why I don't suspect reasonable efforts can be made at change while they survive. Crimina/politcal organizations which tend to survive in the long term don't just kill those who are against them, they wipe out their entire bloodline - and thus have no enemies
(DIR) Post #Ai9MS6Hbw7G6woRYKO by fcktheworld587@social.linux.pizza
2024-05-22T12:59:10Z
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@kkarhan @Radical_EgoCom I would not go so far as to suggest that the bourgeois bloodlines must be wiped out - as I think it's wrong to punish people not directly responsible
(DIR) Post #Ai9Mg3z7HJ1jsES0jQ by fcktheworld587@social.linux.pizza
2024-05-22T13:01:41Z
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@kkarhan @Radical_EgoCom however, however, if you simply remove the bourgeois from power, they will do everything they can, for as long as they live, to try to regain power - which will cause increased political instability, and will lead to a greater number of deaths through collateral damage resulting from the continued action of the bourgeois
(DIR) Post #Ai9MjI67GNSkVrGQPQ by MargaXeyat@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T13:02:17Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @fcktheworld587 No, they should stay alive, especially the super-rich ones. Then we can teach them how to work for low wages 😉
(DIR) Post #Ai9MjuBPf8HKdI2BwO by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T13:02:23Z
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@fcktheworld587 @kkarhan There are other ways to prevent capitalists from gaining back their power in a post-capitalist society, such as heavily regulating their autonomy and influence in the new society by not allowing them to take any positions of power, preventing the establishing of any pro-capitalist groups/movements, etc.
(DIR) Post #Ai9N4aFIz38MsbiOzg by fcktheworld587@social.linux.pizza
2024-05-22T13:06:07Z
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@kkarhan @Radical_EgoCom I love the idea of doing it without killing them, as I personally hate death and killing. I've seen more of them than I would liked to have, in my lifetime. That said, I can't imagine it taking place without some, and if we can save millions of lives through the deaths of a few thousand billionaires, I think it's a no-brainer
(DIR) Post #Ai9NEzsyVh77IQEgsK by fcktheworld587@social.linux.pizza
2024-05-22T13:08:01Z
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@kkarhan @Radical_EgoCom regardless, don't let me anywhere near the levers of power. I'll make bad decisions
(DIR) Post #Ai9NxyCXcTLV6SpgRc by fcktheworld587@social.linux.pizza
2024-05-22T13:16:07Z
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@kkarhan @Radical_EgoCom idealistically, I love that idea; pragmatically, I don't think it would work
(DIR) Post #Ai9OKWIZWkpxE0PEw4 by fcktheworld587@social.linux.pizza
2024-05-22T13:20:12Z
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@kkarhan @Radical_EgoCom I agree with you, and what I'm suggesting has nothing to do with optics. It's just based on history of what tends to happen in matters of power, unfortunately. People behave somewhat predictably, unfortunately
(DIR) Post #Ai9ONRkUtninz1rb5k by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T13:20:45Z
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@fcktheworld587 @kkarhan Historically, killing political enemies has proven to be inefficient and counterproductive. While it may temporarily eliminate individual opponents, it also leads to increased resentment, retaliation, and the perpetuation of cycles of violence. Also, such actions undermine efforts to build trust and stability within societies. Everything shows that sustainable resolutions require dialogue, negotiation, and systemic change, not violence or elimination of adversaries.
(DIR) Post #Ai9OTXS8bZdXPYBGxE by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T13:21:51Z
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@fcktheworld587 @kkarhan History literally suggests the opposite of what you're proposing: https://mastodon.social/@Radical_EgoCom/112484944800225351
(DIR) Post #Ai9OUfE3Bvxdo880iO by fcktheworld587@social.linux.pizza
2024-05-22T13:22:03Z
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@kkarhan @Radical_EgoCom anyways, I agree with you, idealistically, and morally. I hope that that would work, but I don't think that it would, based on things I've seen in my life. I don't want to engage in any arguments. Love and respect. Have a great day
(DIR) Post #Ai9OjmeLs2kTB2dkIa by Erebus_Amauro@ohai.social
2024-05-22T13:24:45Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @fcktheworld587 @kkarhan We are in a system for which sickness is its natural state. Everything seems to be wrong, crook and deficient, unless we see it from the capitalist hoarder perspective.
(DIR) Post #Ai9P7d0RNScSDYLFvU by fcktheworld587@social.linux.pizza
2024-05-22T13:29:05Z
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@kkarhan @Radical_EgoCom re: Germany:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defendants_at_the_International_Military_Tribunal
(DIR) Post #Ai9PZ69X7QmkQuh42C by fcktheworld587@social.linux.pizza
2024-05-22T13:33:57Z
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@kkarhan @Radical_EgoCom regardless of what legal entity carried it out, the effect is that the people with whom a reasonably stable state couldn't be assumed to coexist were made to no longer exist
(DIR) Post #Ai9QeXYal46gpNZc3s by fcktheworld587@social.linux.pizza
2024-05-22T13:46:14Z
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@kkarhan @Radical_EgoCom the process would be to eliminate the ones who hold real power(the bourgeois), and to establish a new system which creates as wide and equitable distribution of power as possible, to hopefully prevent the formation of a similarly powerful, relatively small, in-group who maintains control over the rest of us
(DIR) Post #Ai9RxlKtqrSR1FtmtM by LeoBistmans@mastodon.online
2024-05-22T14:00:35Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @fcktheworld587 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Gentleman_in_Moscow
(DIR) Post #Ai9VNPv6OlHLzRkz6u by coldfish@sfba.social
2024-05-22T14:39:10Z
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@Radical_EgoCom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BourgeoisieTo you, the bourgeoisie is the ruling class, but the term doesn't mean that. If I own a small business, I'm bourgeoisie. you're right that there is a class who owns and controls the means of production, but the word is misused and that mis-use is intentional.We're playing monopoly, you came late and all the properties are owned and you just seem to go around the board. Meanwhile, there are several people eating steaks in the other room who had decided that we would play that game.I'd say there are .01% of Americans who actually run the show here. We play the game they hand us, fight against each other, sometimes flip the board in the air.... and the rulers give us a slightly new game, were we think we're in charge for a while.This means of production stuff.... If I own a million dollars of stock in Ford, I have no say in that company. But if a couple senators are told to by ruling class people that they need to redirect Ford, they can.
(DIR) Post #Ai9WNeIv1CgaYWZTrE by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T14:50:07Z
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@coldfish 1/2 Owning a small business doesn't automatically make someone part of the bourgeoisie. In traditional Marxist theory, the bourgeoisie is defined as the capitalist class that owns and controls the means of production, such as factories, land, and resources. This class extracts surplus value from the labor of the working class to accumulate wealth and maintain their position of power in society.
(DIR) Post #Ai9WOBta7ucYjmyj5M by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T14:50:20Z
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@coldfish 2/2 Ownership of a small business does not necessarily equate to being part of the ruling capitalist class. In a libertarian communist society, where there is no private ownership of the means of production, individuals who own small businesses may not be considered bourgeoisie in the traditional sense if they do not exploit labor or contribute to systems of oppression and inequality.
(DIR) Post #Ai9epWHXEocvPtj03U by TanyaGKasim@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T16:25:04Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Good point. We don't want a repeat of Oliver Cromwell or anything after that.
(DIR) Post #Ai9gXatVYALUPy4BDk by coldfish@sfba.social
2024-05-22T16:44:13Z
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@Radical_EgoCom so if I own stock, then I'm ruling class? How much? 10k? 10M? 50M?, 100M?Where do you draw the line? Does it change with inflation?This accumulation of wealth and means of production and capitalist class.... that doesn't work anymore. Who the F owns Ford or GM? The stock holders. Nope. They profit from it, but 99% have no say, The power players are on the Boards. And they're generally on multiple boards. They've ALREADY won the game. Now they make the rules and we fight like children about who got the biggest slice of the pie that our parents decided to bring back from the store.... the store they own.
(DIR) Post #Ai9hduT3n09AocGs6K by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T16:56:37Z
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@coldfish I'm not a Marxist, but I'm going by Marxist analysis because it's been proven to be correct at explaining these things. Marxist analysis defines the ruling class not just by ownership of stock, but by control over the means of production. Owning a small amount of stock does not equate to ruling class status, as it does not confer significant control or influence over production processes or decision-making. The ruling class consists of...
(DIR) Post #Ai9hgtfXDR37CsWwjI by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T16:57:08Z
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@coldfish 2/4 those who have substantial control over the means of production and can shape economic and political policies.The accumulation of wealth and means of production is not outdated. It is central to capitalism and continues to be relevant. The concentration of wealth and production means in the hands of a few capitalists is a defining feature of the capitalist system, leading to exploitation and class struggle.
(DIR) Post #Ai9hjkQm1FPbQLz9nM by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T16:57:40Z
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@coldfish 3/4 While it's true that most small stockholders have little say in corporate governance, Marxist theory acknowledges that significant power rests with major shareholders and the boards of directors, who represent the interests of the capitalist class. The boards are often composed of individuals from the ruling class, reflecting the interconnectedness of capitalist interests.
(DIR) Post #Ai9hkp6C9HlGBvsAWO by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T16:57:52Z
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@coldfish 4/4 In summary, owning a small amount of stock does not make one part of the ruling class. The key issue is control over the means of production and the broader dynamics of power and exploitation inherent in the capitalist system.
(DIR) Post #Ai9nR35v0HIVWzhIxs by danimo@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T18:01:29Z
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@Radical_EgoCom revenge is a toxic and irrational sociological concept. Too much has already been sacrificed to it.
(DIR) Post #Ai9pL7saV3e0XglX60 by tadbithuman@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T18:22:52Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Mercy in lieu of no more than half a million dollars per person residual net asset value.
(DIR) Post #Ai9pi9aCKhQWUB90gi by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T18:26:59Z
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@tadbithuman That's not good enough. Nothing short of the complete abolition of private property and the redistribution of wealth would be sufficient.
(DIR) Post #Ai9rNx837v4LydTPM0 by tadbithuman@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T18:45:48Z
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@Radical_EgoCom well, the cost of mercy for me is what I defined.
(DIR) Post #Ai9sO0q1R53zR2dLUW by ashwin@union.place
2024-05-22T18:56:59Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Let's say we reset the commerce systems of the world, so that wealth flows in a fair & egalitarian manner. The abundance of the Earth fairly shared.What is sustainable from there?Retaining a notion of "class"? Dividing people & punishing one class, sows vendetta for the future. Kids orphaned in wars seek revenge which won't bring peace.The ultimate goal of class warfare is not the victory of one class over another, but to end the notion of class itself.We all shine on!
(DIR) Post #AiA2e5LRRkNRaUdHYO by SordidAmok@mastodon.social
2024-05-22T20:51:57Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Neither and both because "to remove them from their positions of power and focus on creating a new society out of the ashes of capitalism" would be revenge in itself.
(DIR) Post #AiAf58t2BO7OeJfr7I by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-23T04:02:38Z
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@DopeGhoti Well, it's a binary question, whether you want the bourgeoisie to suffer or not. There is no possible third option.
(DIR) Post #AiB3v9yNmqXHybVq2S by KidOrnery@mstdn.party
2024-05-23T08:40:56Z
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@Radical_EgoComNot just mercy - truth and reconciliation@Radical_EgoCom
(DIR) Post #AiBip9Q91VeSeAkdwe by Gednet@mstdn.social
2024-05-23T16:19:15Z
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@Radical_EgoCom So long as stocks and tomatoes are involved, I'll go with mercy. Tiny bit of public shaming brightens everyone's day, with the added bonus of free tomato puree for the sauce, by the end.#EveryonesAWinner
(DIR) Post #AiC1ReZzQFW3SmriRk by Rhubarb703@mastodon.social
2024-05-23T19:47:56Z
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@Radical_EgoCom I wouldn't call for execution but at the least society should shame the bourgeoisie, that is the ones that are actually involved in human/animal/nature exploitation.
(DIR) Post #AiC4Ys9zcz1lTMq7AO by coldfish@sfba.social
2024-05-23T20:22:51Z
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@Radical_EgoCom@mastodonI really think Marxist Theory is about as relevant as Malthusianism. Our society and economic structure is not the same at all. The powers that Marx fought have moved and I honestly believe that people are actively following their will by blaming the moderately wealthy "class", where they're no distinct "amount" of wealth to determine whether or not they're the oppressor.It's like when some rich dude owns 5 apartment buildings. Is it his fault that he makes more money by keeping the rents high, or is it the policy that doesn't enforce rent control? Or is it the tax structure that allows him to deduct all empty units completely off his profit, so his actual revenue is taxed at a lower rate? Or is it the city that allows him to avoid civil suits? And so on.I there are people who nudge all these things in a direction to keep that one dude on top, and it isn't just a bunch of landlords (although they help), it's the very very wealthy who simply want to keep that structure in place.
(DIR) Post #AiD8EUs16TfmQIvmF6 by smilingheretic@mas.to
2024-05-24T08:38:41Z
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@Radical_EgoCom We become no better than our tormentors if we seek revenge on them. Don't we want to create a better society?
(DIR) Post #AiDSGLq5eMDI4nBvKC by smilingheretic@mas.to
2024-05-24T12:22:16Z
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@ThatMan @Radical_EgoCom Forgiveness does not necessarily mean letting people off. People must be held accountable for their mistakes/greed.
(DIR) Post #AiDTO6x2zCcMAoi384 by tadbithuman@mastodon.social
2024-05-24T12:27:34Z
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@smilingheretic @ThatMan @Radical_EgoCom There is too much punishment for the poor and none for the rich. So, yeah, punishment is required, proportional punishment. If someone stealing a loaf of bread +/- $3 (crazy price gouging), gets a day in prison, someone stealing $3 million should get a million days.
(DIR) Post #AiDTO8Ga63pyFgrADQ by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-24T12:35:44Z
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@tadbithuman @smilingheretic @ThatMan Certain types of punishment, particularly harsh and punitive measures, can lead to higher rates of recidivism and may exacerbate criminal behavior. However, specific, measured forms of punishment can deter crime, particularly when combined with rehabilitation and support programs.A balanced approach, incorporating elements of deterrence, rehabilitation, and restorative justice, is more effective in reducing crime than purely punitive measures.
(DIR) Post #AiDTUpPoaCoDoVMtiy by tadbithuman@mastodon.social
2024-05-24T12:36:57Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @smilingheretic @ThatMan Yes, for the poor. No for the rich, the rich evade all punishment unless richer yet are their victims.
(DIR) Post #AiDTiN3snYNXvjZFA0 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-24T12:39:23Z
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@tadbithuman @smilingheretic @ThatMan I'm talking about the kind of justice system that should exist after capitalism is abolished.
(DIR) Post #AiDTs2FH30PEGWVIZs by tadbithuman@mastodon.social
2024-05-24T12:41:09Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @smilingheretic @ThatMan Super concentrations of wealth wouldn't exist then so this is about before that world is a reality.
(DIR) Post #AiDosrO10LUPuipL5E by mrpieceofwork@mastodon.social
2024-05-24T16:36:35Z
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@Radical_EgoCom mercy, but there are quite a few who SHOULD die... that's just unconscious knowledge (if I may borrow a phrase from Perry Ferrel)
(DIR) Post #AiEpZWPL4ZUKSZkU5I by Tiempo@todon.eu
2024-05-25T04:19:00Z
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@Radical_EgoCom I say, a shovel, a mule, something to plant and send them down the road with a "go on, you creators of value!". If they come back, let them in to work as everybody else, if they go by their way, they will learn one thing or two and be as free as they can work for. If they don't want to go, we show them where they can start digging and planting for everyone, as everybody else. I don't know if this is mercy or revenge, actually
(DIR) Post #AiEpqvo7tFRG9ue11U by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-25T04:22:11Z
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@Tiempo I think this would lean more towards mercy, but regardless of its label, this is a very productive way of dealing with the bourgeoisie.
(DIR) Post #AiF00J8tV2e8g9T5Mm by enmodo@mastodon.social
2024-05-25T06:15:55Z
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@Radical_EgoComFalse dichotomy. I always choose the same justice that anyone else would suffer. @Radical_EgoCom
(DIR) Post #AiFKjegeF7dzc19nMW by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-25T10:08:12Z
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@enmodo It's not a false dichotomy. It's a binary question. Would you get revenge, or would you not get revenge, which would be mercy?
(DIR) Post #AiFr957YIQnVMtuQtM by Erebus_Amauro@ohai.social
2024-05-25T16:11:18Z
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@Radical_EgoCom It is not such a simple question, and the answer depends largely in how the new system is stablished and a lot of circumstances that are hard to evaluate beforehand. And although revenge is useless most of the times from a logical and moral point of view, a violent removal of the elites can be seen as a revenge even if motivated for just practical reasons.
(DIR) Post #AiKb05CG1A2fWNb3xY by YuriBH@ciberlandia.pt
2024-05-27T23:04:00Z
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@Radical_EgoCom well, we're bound to lose.
(DIR) Post #AiKbh3Zlv3kmwl5ST2 by Quutamo@mastodon.social
2024-05-27T23:11:47Z
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I am at this Point, where I want to see every important figure in this society with a stick in his arse on the main square, but not only the capitalist class and I think to have good reasons for that, we are governt by pedophile criminals in my country (Austria). I don't believe in god but for the ruling class I wish for the existence of hell.Feel free to delete this if it's too heavy.