Post Ai6KfjJlKp0YOSwQTY by SkipHuffman@astrodon.social
(DIR) More posts by SkipHuffman@astrodon.social
(DIR) Post #Ai4x8tNsOZLvxCHKL2 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T09:56:38Z
1 likes, 3 repeats
The bald eagle could have easily gone extinct. But we did all sorts of "woke" things protecting it legally, ran conservation and study programs, banned DDT (that good for other reasons too) and in 2007 they were removed from the endangered species list. Likewise pine forests could be dead from acid rain.The ozone could have a huge hole.We CAN take care of nature when we want to. And the successes have been worth it. I feel like we forget this, you know?
(DIR) Post #Ai4xgYca66ArPAD2VU by va2lam@mastodon.nz
2024-05-20T10:02:15Z
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@futurebird yeah totally. We can do it. Do we have the will?
(DIR) Post #Ai4xquR5qURxxRlvjU by CartyBoston@mastodon.roundpond.net
2024-05-20T10:04:16Z
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@futurebird If Rachel Carson was around she'd be on the Fediverse - not Twitter - and she'd follow you.
(DIR) Post #Ai4y449x0Nafsa1lIm by mensrea@freeradical.zone
2024-05-20T10:04:47Z
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@futurebird perversely, our success with dealing with CFCs and the ozone layer problems is why the fossil fuel industry is so well positioned to stop any changes. they saw what happened with CFCs and spent billions to gain the political influence to make sure that kind of thing would never happen again without their control
(DIR) Post #Ai4y8LsR4ddHzHsWvo by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T10:05:44Z
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@DaveMWilburn Well then we need to brag more about our successes.
(DIR) Post #Ai4yAyfzn1X8tuJOfg by knowuh@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T10:05:48Z
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@futurebird I tell young people about these course corrections frequently. They need examples where policies and regulations were effective. I tell em how in my childhood the air often stunk of petrochemicals. We need to cultivate hope.
(DIR) Post #Ai4yJ7pLeQ4pb9ZUrQ by amerika@annihilation.social
2024-05-20T10:09:46.193128Z
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@futurebird #halfearth is achievable
(DIR) Post #Ai4ye52jCJcf2op1Yu by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2024-05-20T10:13:26.085679Z
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@DaveMWilburn >the ozone layer repair as proof that they somehow don't need to change because it magically fixed itself.It didn't - ozone depleting refrigerants were banned, which gave it a chance to recover.It's still many decades away from recovery and still very thin in areas, but things may turn around again due to how certain CFC's are being produced again in China.
(DIR) Post #Ai4ys7pjcTlJkkRRjc by ehproque@paquita.masto.host
2024-05-20T10:16:01Z
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@futurebird the scale of the change required is massively different though, and the sector who has the most to lose is powerful enough to successfully fight back, as we have been seeing
(DIR) Post #Ai4yuEW5k6t53lG6nw by beecycling@romancelandia.club
2024-05-20T10:16:13Z
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@futurebird Whenever people say we can't tackle climate change because it needs to be done by all countries and you can't get everyone to sign up to take actions cooperatively, I wonder if they forgot about that whole ozone hole thing and the Montreal Protocol. I mean, we did that in the 80s! With people like Reagan and Thatcher in charge of countries! Hell, they even pushed for action and following the science.It can be done - if our politicians weren't so bought off or blinded by ideology.
(DIR) Post #Ai56WZZWbhGh2r5rQu by epicdemiologist@wandering.shop
2024-05-20T11:41:43Z
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@futurebird Another: In the 70s I volunteered with the Caretta Research Project (still going! https://www.carettaresearchproject.org/research), tagging sea turtles as they came up the beach to nest. They were in serious trouble, largely because they kept getting drowned in shrimp nets. We passed a law to require turtle excluder devices, and the population rebounded.
(DIR) Post #Ai56chEP2iA6XO8MGe by koteisaev@mastodon.online
2024-05-20T11:42:51Z
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@futurebird I feel often overwhelmed with all these problems, troubles, and catastrophes happening non-stop, so posts like this are so need refresher.
(DIR) Post #Ai57MpuT6nAkm3oKu0 by morri@norden.social
2024-05-20T11:51:09Z
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@futurebird damals gabs kein kntetnet zum verbreiten von du willst das nicht theorien
(DIR) Post #Ai59xUdtLJZ3RBfFUu by raphael_fl@wandering.shop
2024-05-20T12:20:13Z
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@futurebird One thing that's really infuriating is that there are some anti-environmentalists who treat every example of environmental measures working as "proof" that the environment is doing fine and doesn't need our help.
(DIR) Post #Ai5BPbyzkF8uGXVUYq by tadbithuman@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T12:36:23Z
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@futurebird there is an industry that tries to make us forget and despair because their masters would make a little less money if things have to be done right.
(DIR) Post #Ai5COqKszkAcRgwZhQ by conflicts@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T12:47:30Z
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@futurebird Too bad we won't take equivalent action to save #Humanity. We are facing #Extinction and are not intelligent enough to see the writing on the wall....
(DIR) Post #Ai5CXj2rTG9ARLkSbQ by msokolov@fosstodon.org
2024-05-20T12:49:06Z
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@futurebird Boston harbor, reforestation of new England, return of wild turkeys, coyotes, some wolves. Honey bees not as bad off as we thought. How are the bats doing lately?
(DIR) Post #Ai5CbuuLJ9ouODlKQC by dan613@ottawa.place
2024-05-20T12:49:15Z
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@futurebird It's amazing the number of people of Twitter who claimed acid rain wasn't a problem. I can't rule out the possibility that they were just trolling, though.
(DIR) Post #Ai5D6Yw92sCzE1Db16 by sewblue@sfba.social
2024-05-20T12:55:28Z
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@futurebird It is a power thing. Oil is simply too profitable. Too easy to make crazy amounts of money straight from the earth, and with money comes power.Phasing out CFCs was relatively easy. Alternatives had already been developed. You did not have nation states entirely dependent on the production of CFCs. Going up against raw money and power is tougher than switching out a product line. It will change the world order.
(DIR) Post #Ai5D8SR2BpR7dhZPuK by skepticsbookoflists@c.im
2024-05-20T12:55:52Z
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@futurebird There seemed a brief time between the 1950s and 1980s we could get people to do things like put aside self interest in favor of public health and the environment. Now it's all a Chinese plot to take away your guns.
(DIR) Post #Ai5EfBz8THLe8Bh4wC by PetraPanda@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T13:12:43Z
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@futurebird The ozone layer still has a huge gaping hole located over the south pacific. In part, some reports suggest, owing to the continued use of perchloroethylene.Vanity will kill us all eventually.
(DIR) Post #Ai5EsLNQrc2f1YKUSW by GreenFire@mstdn.social
2024-05-20T13:15:10Z
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@futurebird I got a tattoo of a turkey to remind me that we can protect and help the species recover that we've almost made extinct.#WeCanDoThis
(DIR) Post #Ai5FUjrWHCGNy4i7ma by rothko@beige.party
2024-05-20T13:22:09Z
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@futurebird consider: the bald eagle is a symbol of the US, its mascot, imaged on money, official seals and all sorts of government stuff. to let it go extinct would have been a national embarrassment -- therefore the phenomenal effort to find the cause of its demise (DDT) and eradicate it, despite any concerns about lost profits to whatever corporation was manufacturing it.would a similar effort be made today?
(DIR) Post #Ai5HfBRslUrSKWpM9I by caoilte@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T13:46:32Z
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@futurebird The system is setup so we can win temporarily, win temporarily, win temporarily and then lose forever. As long as our civilization is on this path, more and more of those forever losses will pile up until there are no more profits to be made and no more shareholder value to be extracted.
(DIR) Post #Ai5Iuu7H4ek5A7FRZY by glitzersachen@hachyderm.io
2024-05-20T14:00:08Z
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@futurebird I feel that the current situation (with more than one extinction level break-down looming) is more difficult. But I agree, giving up now is not what we should do.WRT the climate it's not totally a cliff. Every tenth of a degree helps. WRT to other pending apocalypses I don't have enough insight (what about the insects? I have no answer).
(DIR) Post #Ai5IyVqhF2Zv3ZDMpc by BillySmith@social.coop
2024-05-20T14:00:18Z
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@futurebird Almost all of the current problems are fixable with our current level of technology.And this includes the ones with solutions that are just out of our current reach, with some focused research.We need to choose knowledge. :D
(DIR) Post #Ai5Kz2LScaH9kYywaW by trainman@sfba.social
2024-05-20T14:23:39Z
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@futurebird We are still snipping around the edges. Fundamental changes are needed but the time for that is running out - fast.
(DIR) Post #Ai5LfFp2u5uti9x1X6 by cavyherd@wandering.shop
2024-05-20T14:31:22Z
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@futurebird I suspect it would not be a stretch to speculate that some not inconsiderable effort goes into memory-holing these facts....
(DIR) Post #Ai5NmY43g6ZSDvZx32 by itchi5@illo.social
2024-05-20T14:55:00Z
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@futurebird Now ask people if they think it's really worth it to use AI, (killing professionals) buy cheap stuff online (suporting polution & forced labour) or keep using FB, Insta, Google, Netflix etc which financially supports investors who keep making this world a mess.
(DIR) Post #Ai5NzaxIF0qwxDdTJw by Clarity@c.im
2024-05-20T14:57:25Z
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@futurebird My *congressman sued the US for a timber corridor preserved by the Obama administration. He aalao thinks wolves should be delisted and that the ESA ia burdensome the EPA redundant and an enemy of the Chambers of Commrce
(DIR) Post #Ai5O2toWa8e8JO6rc8 by Smalltofeds@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T14:57:52Z
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@futurebird Excellent observations. đź‘Ť My favorite friend and I thank you.On the Vermillion River in Minnesota he always visits my special place and watches me fish, moving a little further out on his perch when I catch a big one.
(DIR) Post #Ai5RwJQdLfG9Xm38SG by RealGene@hachyderm.io
2024-05-20T15:41:27Z
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@futurebird And now, this:https://www.npr.org/2023/12/14/1219424322/montana-men-bald-eagle-killing-case
(DIR) Post #Ai5TS8uC6oGU7xcNdI by schuga@mastodon.green
2024-05-20T15:58:37Z
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@futurebird I agree, and intuitively I know that it's 'worth it'. Do you have concrete arguments for someone who challenges 'why' it's worth the effort? How do you explain the fight for biodiversity and long-term survival to someone who doesn't want to engage either out of lazyness or because they struggle enough for their short term survival already...
(DIR) Post #Ai5XuKyBFOEbT9BMFk by driftingThoughts@mastodon.online
2024-05-20T16:48:31Z
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@futurebird Good to read something positive around climate change. Gives all of us hope.
(DIR) Post #Ai5Y1JHxtYkOHblG4G by ClassyT@sfba.social
2024-05-20T16:49:46Z
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@futurebird HMM…BECAUSE WE THE PEOPLE SAT SILENT IN 2016 AND DID NOT ASK FOR THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION TO BE INVALIDATED. WE JUST SUCKED IT UP AND DID NOT QUESTION RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE, NOR DID WE CHALLENGE THE VOTES. OUR SILENCE AND THE MEDIAS COMPLICITY IN REPORTING POSITIVE THINGS ABOUT THE RAPIST AND NEGATIVE THINGS ABOUT THE SECRETARY OF STATE BROUGHT US TO THIS POINT.
(DIR) Post #Ai5YDQ3kY0bikzt0fw by WomanCorn@schelling.pt
2024-05-20T16:52:09Z
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@futurebird environmentalism and conservation aren't "woke"
(DIR) Post #Ai5ZHQxDGOMqdzJ5Em by EvilSandmich@poa.st
2024-05-20T17:04:06.415837Z
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@futurebird >banned DDT (that was good for other reasons too)Yes, all the Africans that died due to malaria, but more work is needed though 🍻
(DIR) Post #Ai5ZOM4pnKMtXrAjB2 by mister914@masto.ai
2024-05-20T17:04:43Z
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@futurebird I never thought of any of these policies as woke.
(DIR) Post #Ai5ZVBwfrVm49KcCK8 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T17:05:43Z
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@mister914 What could be more woke than saving a bird?
(DIR) Post #Ai5ZYGckvIKXWrlUIK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T17:06:17Z
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@WomanCorn No they very much are.
(DIR) Post #Ai5ZfUYJXIyGkp8GZM by junecasagrande@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T17:07:42Z
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@futurebird I'm old enough to remember when those damn woke folks had a problem with cigarette machines in places frequented by kids and teenagers.
(DIR) Post #Ai5aY1os4A97ZFsjHE by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T17:18:05Z
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@rothko I don’t think it would— you would not see both parties united to get it done— it’d be labeled a liberal issue and dismissed I think.
(DIR) Post #Ai5bkUPJhe2tf0R0wi by cshentrup@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T17:31:23Z
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@futurebird That's not woke. That's sensible.
(DIR) Post #Ai5bzOmIulSSXsIQ3k by stevewfolds@mastodon.world
2024-05-20T17:34:13Z
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@futurebird Glad to see Eagles off the endangered list. I’m still concerned about the fish eating birds affected by heavy metals in the Great Lakes. Wisconsin’s DNR has strict guidelines for human consumption of fish.https://widnr.widen.net/s/s6mkcq6tmr/pub_fh_824_choosewisely
(DIR) Post #Ai5eatiH3smf6yQ5Qm by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T18:02:54Z
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@cshentrup Maybe using “woke” a term with a long history to mean “senseless” is a huge mistake.That’s kind of my whole point here.
(DIR) Post #Ai5f09bL7vj7cxDf2O by grumpasaurus@fosstodon.org
2024-05-20T18:08:00Z
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@futurebird if I were a conspiracy theorist, it's almost as if there's some cabal of people who saw all the work you mentioned and went NEVER AGAIN, and proceeded to embark on campaigns that we were never and aren't under any environmental threat and that all this work was for The Man to enact control of the populace
(DIR) Post #Ai5fIYl2KoRgrRX13w by cshentrup@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T18:10:59Z
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@futurebird maybe, but i don't think you're going to change that. just like i can't change how dawkins's original conception of "meme" became co-opted to mean "cute cat gifs". i don't know of any other word that captures that sense of "absurdist virtue signaling" to even use in its place.
(DIR) Post #Ai5mdVot9UdHVfGsgC by Nfoonf@chaos.social
2024-05-20T19:33:31Z
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@futurebird @levampyre this war before the culture wars. if society would have been in the eighties, Sunscreen would be banned and children would have to drink leaded fuel before school.
(DIR) Post #Ai5oQlWHfWQCLVcQMa by Uair@autistics.life
2024-05-20T19:53:39Z
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@futurebird Somewhat off-topic, but worth sharing. America has a new national bird. From a documentary only available outside the US:https://invidious.drgns.space/watch?v=uuh09YDgIFE
(DIR) Post #Ai5q4c4eJ5ZwaWG1Wy by PamelaBarroway@mstdn.social
2024-05-20T20:12:04Z
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@futurebird So much this! Does anyone these days recall Rachel Carson and her seminal work, “Silent Spring”? It literally jump-started the environmental movement and brought attention to DDT and birds. #ClimateChange #Renewables
(DIR) Post #Ai5rYRqL0dPFV1LzkW by petealexharris@mastodon.scot
2024-05-20T20:22:51Z
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@cshentrup @futurebird Humorous template images with text became a more relevant contribution to discourse than anything Richard Dawkins had to say, and we needed a word for them.You don't really need a new word to express anti-intellectual scorn at careful thought, there have been plenty already. Even the phrase "virtue signalling" has a little life in it yet, I see.
(DIR) Post #Ai5rYSrnCiAEfp2fei by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T20:28:36Z
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@petealexharris @cshentrup That’s not what woke means and it’s not how I or anyone I’ve ever known used it.
(DIR) Post #Ai5rxqw8qgt0Z7BMxc by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T20:33:18Z
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@CEvaN I’m admonishing someone for using it that way; it’s bad enough that people mine Black culture with impunity but to have a perfectly beautiful concept like “woke” trashed make me livid and more solid in my resolve to use it correctly. Wokeness is exactly what we are lacking and the ugly irony of the abuse of such a powerful concept isn’t lost on me.
(DIR) Post #Ai5sXJrZIGpqPixGd6 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T20:39:42Z
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This is some extereme newspeak BS. Destroy the words that explain the concepts that might dismantle oppression— it’s an old tactic.
(DIR) Post #Ai5sx0YrgBPI51SK8m by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T20:44:21Z
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@CEvaN Consider the impact of making young people worry that if they are “too political” or demand equal treatment they might be called “woke” and ooo nooo that is not a good thing— it’s cartoonish and scolding— it’s “shrill” it’s goofy black peoples stuff— or crazy trans stuff it’s “too much” not like saving bald eagles! (for now! don’t think those birds are safe!)
(DIR) Post #Ai5tTeuTCTJYU989om by faassen@fosstodon.org
2024-05-20T20:50:12Z
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@futurebird@CEvaN A lot of this is a recycling of anti "politically correct" rhetoric. I wonder what the terms were that were bashed before that, or whether political correctness bashing was a rhetorical innovation.
(DIR) Post #Ai5teVvovBHNpDwErI by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T20:52:08Z
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@Theriac @CEvaN It absolutely made a difference— and it was ever in danger? it’s telling imo
(DIR) Post #Ai5utWeYcXgyMRaNO4 by cshentrup@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T21:06:07Z
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@futurebird @petealexharris it is in fact what it means, empirically. chatGPT is just aggregating thousands of real world uses of the term and deriving that answer accordingly. trying to dismiss objective reality is certainly a take.
(DIR) Post #Ai5wi7BXAbSq60hGr2 by econads@mendeddrum.org
2024-05-20T21:26:24Z
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@futurebird I think each one needs a focused campaign with clear, fairly small objectives (what does success look like, how do we win?) and a profitable alternative to the current solution that can be switched out relatively easily. Then it needs to be well publicised and stay well publicised until it's done.Often what we have today is too big and unfocused e.g. "net zero", too many requirements as it were, which makes them vunerable to PR sabotage and the low attention span of our time.
(DIR) Post #Ai5xUPGhEwZm528fZY by PalmAndNeedle@norden.social
2024-05-20T21:34:53Z
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@futurebird @petealexharris mistaking PISS generated dross for usage is truly next level idiocy :blobcatfacepalm:
(DIR) Post #Ai5xprNluKUxM7g6Fc by PalmAndNeedle@norden.social
2024-05-20T21:39:05Z
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@futurebird @CEvaN :blobhaj_heartrainbow:
(DIR) Post #Ai62yDjXBrselPfBUe by ramsey@phpc.social
2024-05-20T22:35:36Z
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@MrInappropriate @futurebird @CEvaN When “intellectualism” is considered derogatory by the same folks, they’ll also figure out how to turn “enlightened” into a negative thing, too.
(DIR) Post #Ai62yEYa84iJJjXx3o by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T22:36:34Z
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@ramsey @MrInappropriate @CEvaN "anti-woke"Please go back to sleep and be easy to control.
(DIR) Post #Ai64mW4VNpM04X1EkS by tuban_muzuru@ohai.social
2024-05-20T22:56:52Z
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@futurebird @cshentrup When I first heard "woke", was on the west side of Chicago, with a bunch of Black Identity brothers. They said - "woke" was a moment of enlightenment, rather like the Buddhist concept of immediate enlightnment, the Japanese call it é “ć‚ź == tongo. When a Black child, or any other victim of racism, first learns of it, these men said, it's academic, as it is for White people. But when that Black child becomes the victim of racism, it comes into focus. They hate me!
(DIR) Post #Ai67p52Gev9Sx6t1sW by CStamp@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T23:30:51Z
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@futurebird Today, the anti-woke folk would be spreading more DDT around. :(
(DIR) Post #Ai68Maa6OTKiLVgsTY by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T23:37:03Z
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I really wish the people complaining about the use of "woke" to describe environmental law would pay a little more attention to who is using (misusing) that word now... and consider that "tree hugger" used to be something of a nasty mocking term for anyone who dared to suggest that maybe driving animals into extinction was... bad and wrong...
(DIR) Post #Ai68V8hXQ8CKU3FIeG by tob@hachyderm.io
2024-05-20T23:37:13Z
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@CStamp @futurebird Spreading it around? They'd be drinking ddt.
(DIR) Post #Ai68V9vkqlAEIQuARk by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T23:38:33Z
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@tob @CStamp DDT cures COVID but THEY don't want you to know that!(this is not true)
(DIR) Post #Ai68YOAYMpq1KFMoHQ by ghast@liberdon.com
2024-05-20T23:39:19Z
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@futurebird You don't get to redefine words.
(DIR) Post #Ai68ePHX8y3GVuV9Rg by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T23:40:11Z
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And when I say animals. I mean ALL animals.
(DIR) Post #Ai68hGhBWWjykirdVA by CStamp@mastodon.social
2024-05-20T23:40:16Z
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@futurebird @tob Ugh, not true, but too possibly a "truth."
(DIR) Post #Ai68kBt9qsrgiGrFnE by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-20T23:41:25Z
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@ghast I'm not the one who redefined it. LOL. It's old as churches.
(DIR) Post #Ai69s3qRk4h82KuG00 by ghast@liberdon.com
2024-05-20T23:54:04Z
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@futurebird Second half of the third century? Try again.
(DIR) Post #Ai6DDu9ojypEDz4gDY by LovesTha@floss.social
2024-05-21T00:31:31Z
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@futurebird Yes we've changed single industries world wide.We haven't yet done it for all industries at the same time.I'm not saying we can't, just that this is an issue at a scale humans haven't dealt with since the last ice age (and we didn't have industries back then)
(DIR) Post #Ai6KfjJlKp0YOSwQTY by SkipHuffman@astrodon.social
2024-05-21T01:54:58Z
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@futurebird Everything good is woke.
(DIR) Post #Ai7DU3KAcVD6RlZp32 by Extra_Special_Carbon@mastodon.world
2024-05-21T12:08:31Z
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@futurebird No way! Ticks can go to hell.
(DIR) Post #Ai7FsmX6O3VlW7Xqts by mister914@masto.ai
2024-05-21T12:36:02Z
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@futurebird The endangered species act was passed 92-0 in the senate, 390-12 in the house and signed by Nixon. The ban of DDT was by the EPA under Nixon and EPA administrator Ruckelshaus, a Republican. The Montreal Protocol banned CFCs in 1989. It was widely supported as it has been ratified by every country in the UN.It is inspiring to see that people do come together when motivated.
(DIR) Post #Ai7IFGZFbDaywmOo9A by WomanCorn@schelling.pt
2024-05-21T13:02:37Z
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@futurebird they have their whole own history with separate social and legislative successes and failures.Environmentalism has a long history of globalism: everyone is at risk from a dying planet.Woke additions to that, like <seas rise, minorities hardest hit> are a new thing, and certainly post-dated banning DDT and saving the bald eagle
(DIR) Post #Ai7J2sEiKusDxqRqC0 by dogzilla@masto.deluma.biz
2024-05-21T13:11:25Z
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@futurebird @_L1vY_ @CEvaN I think we can - and should - reclaim the word woke
(DIR) Post #Ai7JQzoBpoYOOnXmXw by fmhilton@mastodon.sdf.org
2024-05-21T13:15:45Z
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@futurebird I's not that we forgot it, it's that the corporations want us to forget it so they can make more money.
(DIR) Post #Ai9DAQpXu6qFsFofvk by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-05-22T11:13:15Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@zendao42 They can pry these spotted owls out of my cold dead hands!
(DIR) Post #Ai9vtKQiwWqH2QQOie by joby@hachyderm.io
2024-05-22T19:35:52Z
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@futurebird @CEvaN Christ, I took a look at the person you originally replied to, and I see why my mods have hidden them from me. What a turd.
(DIR) Post #AjSgGYSLFvviJoqOCO by vzocca@hachyderm.io
2024-06-30T18:32:37Z
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@futurebird DDT was bad for other things, the refrigerant destroying the ozone layer was still mostly used by developing countries. If it does not impact the strongest economies (especially the US) we can do it, only then, otherwise forget it.