Post Ahx6G8ffIn5jiPRxGy by byobattleship@mastodon.gamedev.place
(DIR) More posts by byobattleship@mastodon.gamedev.place
(DIR) Post #Ahwxd9ImDvLMkEdp5M by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-05-16T13:24:21Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
Weird question:Why do you think so few artists attempt to create a magnum opus? It really seems most people who are good at something want to just keep making it in various forms, but don't try to make a single lasting great work, even when they're in a position to try.As an example of what I mean, take Virgil who became well known for pastoral writing, but always had an eye on writing a national epic. A few people still read Georgics and Eclogues, but the Aeneid is the Opus.
(DIR) Post #AhwxmpwD4bObaHhmqm by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-05-16T13:26:16Z
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Tolkien's another obvious example - lots of little stories and books and things, but his eye was on a grand English epic. Art Spiegelman - did lots of weird alt comic, but then also made his massive glorious Maus.Maybe it's always been unusual but I'm somewhat disappointed that you don't see more of this sort of thing. Like, people who make solid sitcoms for years but never even try to make a lasting glorious comedy.
(DIR) Post #Ahwxurq3tENfnQeuPI by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-05-16T13:27:42Z
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Without saying any names, there are lots of living artists who I adore, and I always want them to stop and take out a few years to focus on create something really hard and strange and at least potentially monumental.
(DIR) Post #AhwyBAOMg1wbyITZ68 by klausman@mas.to
2024-05-16T13:30:38Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I think part of it may be the fear of "and then what?" Especially in music, many bands have released an absolutely epic album and then struggled forever to follow-up.
(DIR) Post #AhwyEShv2Mnbe1C3to by Glupinickname@dice.camp
2024-05-16T13:31:14Z
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@ZachWeinersmith To me, this seems like a question of risk and job security. How many artists can truly allow themselves to invest several years off from regular jobs to work on something bigger? And how many of them can be sure their magnum opus won't land with a thud, failing to resonate with the audiences?
(DIR) Post #AhwyPnk1ArBk46aAGu by johnhattan@dobbs.town
2024-05-16T13:33:18Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I would assume that a magnum opus just isn't in their wheelhouse. I never would have expected Van Vogh to make a La Grande Jatte or a Sistine Chapel ceiling.
(DIR) Post #AhwyQKEyLIxkrNJKxk by frankie@tuiter.rocks
2024-05-16T13:33:21Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Perhaps it,s too time consuming and they want to pay the bills these years. đâ
(DIR) Post #AhwyQdjRsDd9JOiRbU by justdaveisfine@mastodon.social
2024-05-16T13:33:22Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Isn't it the opposite? I feel like every artist I know has a magnum opus they want to make or are attempting - But they don't have the time or resources to have it hit their quality standard, or they've been in the biz long enough that they know they can't start it yet.
(DIR) Post #AhwyrTIMmkgelGqJPc by IndustrialPlaid@mastodon.social
2024-05-16T13:38:18Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Maybe many of them are working on them, but we only get to experience the ones that have those monumental breakthroughs.
(DIR) Post #Ahwzwxx8KRM9FK5wq8 by arensb@mastodon.social
2024-05-16T13:50:22Z
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@ZachWeinersmith If you won't name names, I will: Cassie Taggart.https://cassieart.com/
(DIR) Post #Ahx0h1zhdQOf6LGKMC by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-05-16T13:58:46Z
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@richardrathe Yes, a great example!
(DIR) Post #Ahx0tDhPwQyKsYWOoa by johncoxon@wandering.shop
2024-05-16T14:00:59Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Whereâs yours?
(DIR) Post #Ahx0weCxq4AnxmuaQ4 by luis_in_brief@social.coop
2024-05-16T14:01:37Z
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@ZachWeinersmith skimming this in my feed: âoh, this isnât the answer theyâre looking for, but I should tell this person that there is an SMBC about thisâ (looks closer)oh(And I see looking at my Patreon emails that it is todayâs comic, so I canât even link to it yet for the benighted few who arenât yet Patreon subscribers)
(DIR) Post #Ahx1Zemhd5Uh2qEGpM by solar_chase@mastodon.green
2024-05-16T14:08:40Z
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@ZachWeinersmith oh, to be a wealthy patron, offering one's favourite artists the ultimate advance.(I suspect mostly it would work out badly? I mean, I'm not an artist but I wonder if This Is Your Magnum Opus would be intolerable pressure to work under).
(DIR) Post #Ahx1rkP5TbHDgVoFn6 by gutsquasher@mastodon.social
2024-05-16T14:11:52Z
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@ZachWeinersmith it's really really hard. Like, you have to both want to, have the ability, and have the means. Not to mention the mental games we play.No one's gonna read an opus half finished.
(DIR) Post #Ahx1tHCyzj2diTsQc4 by Crell@phpc.social
2024-05-16T14:12:13Z
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@ZachWeinersmith High-risk/high-reward. Your odds of producing an opus are about 1/100000. Your odds of producing lots of decent work that puts food on the table is 1/10.
(DIR) Post #Ahx2R8Rm4l3wOBwNaC by drcrypt@mastodon.social
2024-05-16T14:18:22Z
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@ZachWeinersmith It feels like you are talking about two different things. Technically, one does not usually set out to create your magnum opus: history just judges it to be so. To use one of your examples, Spiegelman never intended Maus to be his magnum opus, but it has become that because it his most personal, influential, and widely known work. It's not even very long by comic standards, and it's worth remembering he published much of it serially.
(DIR) Post #Ahx4k7Eqzb9g3H4jiK by amerika@annihilation.social
2024-05-16T14:44:12.456650Z
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@ZachWeinersmith because no one will buy it
(DIR) Post #Ahx4sKXvOnqhdouebg by Zergling_man@sacred.harpy.faith
2024-05-16T14:45:36.008305Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Maybe just because they like doing it.>massocnigger>firstnamelastnamenigger>weinersmithđ¤How big is your nose, exactly?
(DIR) Post #Ahx6G8ffIn5jiPRxGy by byobattleship@mastodon.gamedev.place
2024-05-16T15:01:05Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Two thoughts:1. I had to force a hyperfocus for 3.5 years to get my videogame out the door. That had major negative physical and mental effects on my life (depression, headaches, lack of day-to-day variety, etc). Not to say it wasn't worth it, but it was HARD.2. Just because you make a magnum opus doesn't mean it'll be received well. Recognition or whatever else you want is more likely to come from making lots of small, digestible works, instead of one big one.
(DIR) Post #Ahx8CnZzSmdDLBKYYC by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2024-05-16T15:22:53Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Because it's hard, it takes years, and most of us can barely pay the mortgage with regular art so we just don't have the bandwidth to make a big swing.
(DIR) Post #Ahx8Rq7uH9XVaGMnoG by dougs@masto.nd2.uk
2024-05-16T14:04:40Z
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@johncoxon @ZachWeinersmith I commend to your serious attention "Bea Wolf" and "A City on Mars", both on this year's Hugo shortlist.
(DIR) Post #Ahx8RrkaEq4UcVTCjY by johncoxon@wandering.shop
2024-05-16T14:07:33Z
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@dougs @ZachWeinersmith Neither of those are a Magnum Opus that will be remembered on the level of Virgil, Tolkien or Spiegelmann, as much as I enjoyed both (sorry Zach).EDIT: Thinking about it more, I also think you can't write more than one Magnum Opus, so if you have two works in a year, itâs rather more likely that they fall into the âusual outputâ category than the âspent significant time on my lifeâs workâ category.
(DIR) Post #Ahx8Rta1R4oOIKXnY8 by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-05-16T15:25:40Z
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@johncoxon @dougs Bea Wolf, with Bea 2 will be an attempt at a kind of complete kids' epic. Bea 1 can't really do it because it's the jaunty easy first part of the story! Not that it's Virgil, but it's about as good of writing as I'm capable of. I do have a few more bigger ideas in the cue, but all of this has only been possible to attempt in the last 5 years or so, and it's slow work!
(DIR) Post #Ahx9lxPJ13RLuUf5Em by rotopenguin@mastodon.social
2024-05-16T15:40:33Z
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@ZachWeinersmith âGroverhausâ is a magnum opus in carpentry form.
(DIR) Post #AhxA4rkQHWiJrNYUro by SKleefeld@mastodon.social
2024-05-16T15:43:59Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I'm not sure if that's a fair question. How many artists DO attempt to create a magnum opus but it's never seen as such? How many have one but never even intended to? A "magnum opus" is often an appellation applied by critics after the fact; Spiegelman was just telling his father's story in serialized comics for years before it was collected and became part of the comics canon.
(DIR) Post #AhxBXDI5sWfCjlNySm by rlemaire@mamot.fr
2024-05-16T16:00:11Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Does one know when he is creating a masterpiece or does it feel like any other work ?
(DIR) Post #AhxCMpFwU4KJFkzRNg by jonhendry@iosdev.space
2024-05-16T16:09:37Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Well there's Dave Sim and Cerebus, but, well, that kind of went off the rails.
(DIR) Post #AhxN2JyeAShNwnKExE by Oggie@woof.group
2024-05-16T18:08:44Z
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@ZachWeinersmith It would be nice. I think it really comes down to food/housing insecurity, as depressing as that is.
(DIR) Post #AhxV43heRdZlgciPuC by pyyp@sfba.social
2024-05-16T19:39:05Z
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@ZachWeinersmith There's an interesting side question about an opus from the cultural perspective vs the artist's perspective. For Tolkien, from the cultural perspective, The Lord of the Rings is probably the opus. But it's pretty clear that Tolkien would consider The Silmarillion his opus. I'm curious if Virgil would consider the Aenid his opus. I have a vague recollection that it is considered propaganda for Augustus. Was he trying to write an opus or just make a buck?
(DIR) Post #AhxcPxi06z1B94Gokq by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-05-16T21:01:32Z
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@pyyp I think Virgil would, but that's an excellent point about Tolkien.
(DIR) Post #AhxeQGjZZkdk3lHOhk by glocq@mathstodon.xyz
2024-05-16T21:23:56Z
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@ZachWeinersmithAssuming you'll be able to maintain the ability (free time, health, etc.) and motivation to work on a single project during years, you also need to maintain a consistent vision while you're experiencing new things, getting exposed to new influences, thinking new thoughts â in a word, changing as an artist and as a person.I think many artists struggle creating "regular" opuses enough to be wary of making such a bet. And among those that do, a good part probably don't get to finish it for the reasons outlined above...
(DIR) Post #Ai0iTZHK4DytjXm412 by JoshuaACNewman@xeno.glyphpress.com
2024-05-18T08:53:28Z
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@ZachWeinersmith How much of the answer is âI canât not produce commercial work for years. I can only barely eat as it is.â
(DIR) Post #Ai7vDc6ATPBnMCzzDE by mattmcirvin@mathstodon.xyz
2024-05-21T20:19:13Z
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@ZachWeinersmith A Magnum Opus is a risky big swing. You have to take the risk of putting years of effort into something that won't pay.There have been artists who saw their well-known works as trivia and swung for a Magnum Opus that they never finished or that sank into obscurity. Gogol wanted to expand his satirical novel "Dead Souls" into a vast trilogy that would outline a path to national spiritual redemption, and he died frustrated that he couldn't make it work.
(DIR) Post #AiBMD3TeTUAkDZoyVE by mattmcirvin@mathstodon.xyz
2024-05-23T12:05:51Z
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@ZachWeinersmith My impression was that Tolkien really fell into writing his epic almost by accident. What he really loved, the thing he thought of as the magnum opus, was the worldbuilding notes and in-world mythologies, the deep nerd stuff that got mined for the Silarmarillion. Most of that was never going to see the light of day on its own, though. The Hobbit was a kid's story set in that world and was very successful, and then when he tried to write a sequel it got away from him.