Post AhbGG0gTioAX0aHzP6 by Computer@dice.camp
(DIR) More posts by Computer@dice.camp
(DIR) Post #Ahal0j73fiyvaaxD6m by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-05-05T20:19:28Z
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Oh god people are fighting about abortion and overpopulation and all I really wanted today was to write "sack-blast" in a comic
(DIR) Post #Ahalu144d3S5C1vENk by slothrop@chaos.social
2024-05-05T20:29:26Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Let them talk. You have what you wanted 😂😂😂
(DIR) Post #AhamVlDtyXhV48W7Zg by septomin@hachyderm.io
2024-05-05T20:36:14Z
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@ZachWeinersmith if it makes you feel any better, all I could think about was a sack so large it could stop a trolley, and whether it would be ethical to push that sack onto the tracks
(DIR) Post #AhamjwQN7uxhrM6zY0 by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-05-05T20:38:50Z
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On a vaguely more serious note, an ethicist friend told me that arguing future lives have at least some moral status brings out a lot of anger, and I didn't believe him! Maybe I'm being naive, but the slope between that claim and some sort of Handmaid's Tale hellscape doesn't seem so slippery to me?
(DIR) Post #AhanC8iD2DrS4rtv28 by Oggie@woof.group
2024-05-05T20:43:55Z
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@ZachWeinersmith There's a lot of absolutely huge emotional triggers hidden for a lot of people just slightly below the surface, on a lot of things that I don't understand.The concept of having children without a male contributing (in idle future sci fi talk! We had just been musing on antigravity!) caused a huge blowup, once.Ethical triggers can do...strange things.
(DIR) Post #AhanVaAv9TokkrbMa8 by drgroftehauge@sigmoid.social
2024-05-05T20:47:26Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Shouldn't it depend on what future thing you are discussing? Existence and suffering is two very different things.
(DIR) Post #AhapUFttFNXxUc8A0u by btuftin@social.coop
2024-05-05T21:09:36Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Does it have something to do with the context or lack of context?I can't really recall seeing it used except in arguing against more equitable distribution of resources to protect current lives. "Me using billions on rocketry rather than solving world hunger is important for the future Galaxy spanning humanity with trillions of humans."I guess there's an implicit "future lives have value" in environmentalism, but I haven't seen it used there explicitly. ...
(DIR) Post #AhaqFFCNfqBuvWBYlE by Orb2069@mastodon.online
2024-05-05T21:18:05Z
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@ZachWeinersmith We really need to grind in the idea that unfalsifiable claims are not only bad, but making them brings the claimiant's honesty or intelligence into question.
(DIR) Post #Ahavrm6sG6TZm2nml6 by rfunk@mas.to
2024-05-05T22:21:05Z
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@ZachWeinersmith This gets close to the argument of Longtermism, which is embraced by Silicon Valley billionaires, and seems to lead directly to making existing people's lives worse as a nebulous tradeoff for future people.
(DIR) Post #AhbDh8jlaa6LwO4X0S by Phosphenes@glasgow.social
2024-05-06T01:40:52Z
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@ZachWeinersmith People visualize future people as if they are already real, the same way we imagine lottery winnings with no grasp of their probability. We are bad at that sort of thing. Every atom that moves changes who all the kids will be next generation because of fluid dynamics in sperm. So every sneeze is a holocaust to all the kids who won't be born because of it. Only real people can possibly matter, then.
(DIR) Post #AhbE8AEA9kfgNiAxQu by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-05-06T01:45:45Z
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@Virginicus Personal view is that there are no non-trivial behaviors you would do for a person 10k years in the future that you wouldn't also do to benefit your grandkids. So, something like... the discount rate is zero, but it's not actually that interesting.
(DIR) Post #AhbEwE3sAwmakfEZKy by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-05-06T01:54:48Z
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@Phosphenes Yeah, but where it gets interesting is whether we should see added happy people as neutral or not.
(DIR) Post #AhbGG0gTioAX0aHzP6 by Computer@dice.camp
2024-05-06T02:09:35Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Everything I do, I do to create a utopic future for humanity.It's just all those dang humans that get in the way.
(DIR) Post #AhbGXqeFm1YT5xkpUG by redezem@aus.social
2024-05-06T02:12:47Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Shard 👏 the 👏 nard. Shard 👏 the 👏 nard!That said, people suck. Petition to alter the thought experiment to instead consider 500 people that are currently engaged in a long argument about abortion and overpopulation?
(DIR) Post #AhbKYytYzrXomLi9nE by mu@mastodon.nz
2024-05-06T02:57:48Z
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@ZachWeinersmith @Phosphenes have people in the world ever been happy? If you wanted, you could probably add it up with some sort of (probability that person will exist) * some normalised value / the impact of this particular choice, but I can't see it catching on.
(DIR) Post #AhbQcRrgLP0vDirrIO by spacebarbarian@mstdn.social
2024-05-06T04:05:33Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I think it's an excuse for oligarchs to do things with no demonstrable benefit to people today
(DIR) Post #AhbbRvJnayussZCeS8 by iinavpov@mastodon.online
2024-05-06T06:07:00Z
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@ZachWeinersmithThe problem is that the moral value of future lives (a real thing!) typically only ever gets brought up to trade against the moral value of current lives. Which is basically never acceptable. Except it is, when people willingly sacrifice themselves. Except, what is "willing", and what if the sacrifice fails? I just don't see how you can have a peaceful discussion on those topics. It forces people to accept contradictions. They hate it.
(DIR) Post #AhbnEa0ehzfITbeWTA by coyoty@mstdn.social
2024-05-06T08:18:40Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Every decision you make kills millions of future lives. It also saves millions of future lives. You can't help it. You're a killer hero butterfly.
(DIR) Post #Ahckvuw0gDjR7dPexE by Phosphenes@glasgow.social
2024-05-06T19:27:55Z
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@ZachWeinersmith The only way I know to add happy people is to make them happy after they are born. Is that what you are saying?
(DIR) Post #AhctySuaDyoEfO2FnM by dutch_connection_uk@mastodo.neoliber.al
2024-05-06T21:09:05Z
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@ZachWeinersmith This is why I like virtue ethics. All those complex and heated debates that can fuel academic papers go away. You just come up with some virtues then have people accuse you of being stupid and unsophisticated as you answer the impossible moral quandry.Crush those nuts! (Rule of Funny, Rule of Cool).