Post AhM3RDCadBB3Z5Kr2W by benjamineskola@hachyderm.io
(DIR) More posts by benjamineskola@hachyderm.io
(DIR) Post #AhI3GCGFy5Sk0xtniS by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T19:44:26Z
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@neptune22222 @breadandcircuses You say "Socialism is the regulation of capitalism, not the abolition of capitalism", which is precisely why I support communism instead of just socialism, because even being regulated capitalism, with its private ownership of the means of production, free markets, and its concentration of resources in a few hands, creates wealth inequality, poverty, and wagedom.
(DIR) Post #AhI4rtPWbOWCVclyng by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T20:02:27Z
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@neptune22222 @breadandcircuses No aspect of my vision of communism is utopian. My vision is to gradually establish a decentralized and non-hierarchical system of collective ownership and management of the means of production and an equal sharing of resources amongst everyone. It is reasonable to call such a feat difficult to achieve, but it's well within the possibility of human capabilities and is therefore not utopian.
(DIR) Post #AhI6TTvvsGvMS1Q2To by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T20:20:26Z
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@neptune22222 @breadandcircuses I don't propose getting rid of capitalism as the first step; I propose it as one of the goals to be attained. Saying things like "get rid of capitalism" or "capitalism is bad" aren't proposed as first steps but as recognitions of the primary problem and the necessity to eliminate it. Of course, a step-by-step plan is necessary, but advocating for the abolition of capitalism isn't utopian.
(DIR) Post #AhI6cpTz7lC7tInuRU by mac@sciences.social
2024-04-26T20:22:04Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @neptune22222 @breadandcircuses in my opinion a world with out capitalism is as you say a step, albeit a later step in moving towards a utopian society, if that's possible.With machine automation and efficiency producing food and other required items for a planet worth of people should be easy to achieve if not in the hands of the greedy.
(DIR) Post #AhI7nMQFbrFKtydvSi by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T20:35:12Z
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@neptune22222 @breadandcircuses I have ideas on how to get society closer to a place where the abolition of capitalism is possible, like forming worker cooperatives and unionizing currently non-union workplaces. I have no step-by-step guide on how to abolish capitalism right now, but I recognize that a step-by-step guide is necessary and that capitalism's abolition won't be possible without one, so I don't see how my position is utopian.
(DIR) Post #AhI8rA8xIvfzvpviwy by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T20:47:07Z
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@neptune22222 @breadandcircuses Capitalism causes isolation among the workers through the division of labor, which is one of the main obstacles in creating a working-class movement strong enough to abolish capitalism. By establishing workers cooperatives and unions workers can become more united and will be able to connect more through their shared interests and goals, making an environment where it'll be much easier to unite all workers into a strong enough force to abolish capitalism.
(DIR) Post #AhICWS1m139R8MwyDQ by Rob100@sakurajima.moe
2024-04-26T21:28:12Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @neptune22222 @breadandcircuses@climatejustice.social Can you post more often about getting society closer to where the abolition of capitalism is possible?
(DIR) Post #AhIDkvZN4o2slU8FIe by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T21:41:59Z
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@Rob100 @neptune22222 That's essentially what I am doing with my many posts and reposts by others about unions and working-class solidarity. Those two things are what will bring society closer to the abolition of capitalism.
(DIR) Post #AhIEKnut0WiXSFIpbU by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T21:48:28Z
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@neptune22222 @Rob100 Did you not read my previous post to you? Unions and working-class solidarity destroy the isolation that capitalism's division of labor creates making it easier for workers to unite into a strong enough force to abolish capitalism. I never claimed that unions or solidarity alone would abolish capitalism.
(DIR) Post #AhIELww4xYrHiVPHou by Rob100@sakurajima.moe
2024-04-26T21:48:41Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @neptune22222 Yes, so essentially, that would be sharing posts which is also helpful to add context, and visual cues to the subject. I like the reposts btw. but really I meant like, can you make your own posts about the subject from scratch and write your own specific takes about getting society closer to the abolition of capitalism, more often.
(DIR) Post #AhIFDD9jNrllN3BoX2 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T21:58:19Z
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@neptune22222 @Rob100 Abolishing capitalism and money won't cause starvation if capitalism is replaced with a collectivist economy of shared ownership and the system of money is replaced with a gift economy where resources, like food, are shared and given to those who need it regardless of their position in society. The notion of capitalist or money abolition inevitably leading to starvation is a myth.
(DIR) Post #AhIFG6vmz5ZOvw3Dn6 by starran@socel.net
2024-04-26T21:58:49Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @neptune22222 @Rob100 If only it were that easy!
(DIR) Post #AhIFL8568So5wrnXyi by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T21:59:47Z
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@starran @neptune22222 @Rob100 It's not going to be easy. It will probably be the hardest thing Humanity will ever try to do, but it is possible.
(DIR) Post #AhIFgC7OJydyYAuos4 by Rob100@sakurajima.moe
2024-04-26T22:03:32Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @neptune22222 exactly.
(DIR) Post #AhIGb79BTZwpdfta76 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T22:13:52Z
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@neptune22222 @starran @Rob100 I have already explained why what I've proposed isn't utopian. What do you find so unrealistic about it?
(DIR) Post #AhIHSXymRf9WCnVYMC by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T22:23:30Z
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@neptune22222 @starran @Rob100 You not having seen a historical precedent for a moneyless gift economy with no private ownership of the means of production isn't proof that it's impossible. Can you list any reasons why such a system couldn't work?
(DIR) Post #AhIHSvVswkIdC8AoeO by Rob100@sakurajima.moe
2024-04-26T22:23:37Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @neptune22222 @starran Actually, a utopia is an imagined place or state of things in which everything is perfect. It's not just about being unrealistic in the sense of like, whether you could see it happening or not. But also that it's real or fake.One thing for sure, their proposal isn't imaginary, it's real, it's been tried before. Also.. now I could be wrong but they don't seem to be claiming everything will be perfect from that proposal.
(DIR) Post #AhIIYt4z0afJKzzplg by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T22:35:47Z
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@neptune22222 @starran @Rob100 I don't see what the number of people on Earth has to do with anything, I don't like money because of how it divides people into classes of wealthy and unwealthy, and you still haven't answered my question. Can you list any reasons why the system I proposed couldn't work?
(DIR) Post #AhIJEpUOkLryMjsqLw by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T22:43:27Z
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@neptune22222 @starran @Rob100 Regardless of what you think, I have proposed a system multiple times now, that is a decentralized and non-hierarchical system of collective ownership and management of the means of production and resources. What is impossible about that?
(DIR) Post #AhIK2sgP9ADokYMkN6 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T22:52:30Z
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@neptune22222 @starran @Rob100 I didn't propose a specific system with all of the details and intricacies figured out, I proposed a possible alternative to the existing system. What exactly is it about a decentralized and non-hierarchical system of collective ownership of the means of production that you think makes it less possible than the current private ownership of the means of production within a hierarchical and centralized system?
(DIR) Post #AhIL9yvmPnzy6oVW6a by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T23:04:58Z
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@neptune22222 @starran @Rob100 I've been more than clear with what I've been talking about and it's not my fault that you're having difficulty understanding what the words I've used mean. You're on the internet. If you don't know what "decentralized", "non-hierarchical", or "ownership" means then you can look them up. Once you've done that then you can answer my question that I've asked twice already.
(DIR) Post #AhIxCYXR9JINWTAonQ by francis@greenplenty.social
2024-04-27T06:11:14Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @neptune22222 @starran @Rob100 Dear old Karl said very little about this imaginary regulated capitalism earlier in this thread. Workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains. From each according to his ability, to each according to their needs. Philosophers have only interpreted the world, the point, however is to change it. 1/
(DIR) Post #AhM1BRbR7brngcJKcq by francis@greenplenty.social
2024-04-28T17:04:25Z
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@neptune22222 @Radical_EgoCom @starran @Rob100 Promoting?Warning.Straw man. Back in the 80’s my government put people in wheelchairs who were fighting for their jobs. In the US you have gun battles and the murder of union activists in the early to mid 20th century, the civil rights struggle. More recently the mysterious deaths of the leaders of Ferguson. Now we have the suppression of the campus protests.
(DIR) Post #AhM1BS6dFcovFMuFFY by francis@greenplenty.social
2024-04-28T17:15:54Z
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@neptune22222 @Radical_EgoCom @starran @Rob100 Without a well organised mass movement to take them on you’re going to get nowhere. That’s hard work, not wishing.Our owners will not let us legislate them away. They smashed the post war social democratic consensus to smithereens. It’s done. They’ve been free to do whatever they like for the last 50 years. You think you can put that blood soaked murder machine back in its box?
(DIR) Post #AhM3P1G647ApwZvjcm by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T18:04:51Z
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@neptune22222 @francis @starran @Rob100 If communism, or even socialism, is to be achieved our existing "democracies" (quotations added because they're not democracies, more like oligarchies) must be abandoned.
(DIR) Post #AhM3RAt1EyKmNoACG0 by benjamineskola@hachyderm.io
2024-04-28T17:54:16Z
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@neptune22222 @francis @Radical_EgoCom @starran @Rob100 It seems contradictory to support socialism and yet claim to want to preserve ‘existing democracies’, when existing democracies have shown themselves to be willing to use extreme force to prevent the success of socialism.
(DIR) Post #AhM3RDCadBB3Z5Kr2W by benjamineskola@hachyderm.io
2024-04-28T17:59:42Z
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@neptune22222 @francis @Radical_EgoCom @starran @Rob100 Like, it’s not that socialists *want* a bloody fight. As far as I know most socialists would be happy if socialism could be established without any violence. Unfortunately in the real world attempting to do so leads to being targeted by a CIA-backed coup, no matter how democratic and gradual your process is.
(DIR) Post #AhMOlYIfzp69pRirOi by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T22:04:15Z
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@neptune22222 @francis @starran @Rob100 I didn't say anything about a bloody fight as a solution to violence.
(DIR) Post #AhMWrAbnnDTNinrGyG by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T23:34:55Z
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@neptune22222 @francis @starran @Rob100 How come when I suggested that we abandon our current political/economic system you interpreted that as "childish" and me "wanting to start a bloody fight as a solution to violence"?
(DIR) Post #AhMdqRsylrjmh9UnlQ by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-29T00:53:10Z
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@neptune22222 @francis @starran @Rob100 What exactly is "childish", "lazy", and "cynical" about believing that the current system needs to be abolished?
(DIR) Post #AhMfSuoPluFVMoGbx2 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-29T01:11:21Z
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@neptune22222 @francis @starran @Rob100 People should have a pessimistic view of the current system because it's shown itself to be ineffective, people have done work for decades to change the current system and they've failed to, so people have ample reason to seek alternatives, and...
(DIR) Post #AhMfTjOHioeQEXQxns by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-29T01:11:30Z
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@neptune22222 @francis @starran @Rob100 ...I fail to see how using unions and workers cooperatives that just so happen to rely on the current capitalist system to build up the working class into a strong enough force to overthrow capitalism is childish; I see it as tactical and strategic.
(DIR) Post #AhMhYdgMZZonsxMFY8 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-29T01:34:48Z
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@neptune22222 @francis @starran @Rob100 A union is an organized association of workers in a particular industry or occupation who come together to collectively represent and advocate for their interests, rights, and working conditions, and a workers' cooperative is a business that is owned and operated by its employees. There's nothing about these two things that makes them impossible to exist outside of a capitalist system, and for anything,...
(DIR) Post #AhMhZMVbuOxIudfnXM by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-29T01:34:56Z
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@neptune22222 @francis @starran @Rob100 ...these two forms of organization would thrive within a communist system since such a system would prioritize worker solidarity and shared ownership of businesses.
(DIR) Post #AhMiqq8d6IhjgQp1tY by rob200@hear-me.social
2024-04-29T01:45:08Z
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@neptune22222 @Radical_EgoCom @francis @starran @Rob100 if by the existing system they mean capitalsim, you can still have unions without capitalism, if workers feel their rights are being suppressed.Worker cooperatives it seems to be a decades lasting debate on whether they are capitalism or not. Although, it might depend on circumstances.
(DIR) Post #AhN6VVFTyBz1iMNzk0 by francis@greenplenty.social
2024-04-29T06:14:20Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @neptune22222 @starran @Rob100 and you’ve got housing cooperatives, food, credit unions. Syndicalism in general. Creating democratic dual power structures as a transitional move to protect and help each other. Learning how to do mutual aid. It’s a completely different way of thinking from acting like a temporarily embarrassed billionaire we’ve had rammed into our heads for years on end.