Post AhJwoakJMCXMcjO2m8 by christian@aldr.social
(DIR) More posts by christian@aldr.social
(DIR) Post #AhJuRDE8Qykn713paa by christian@aldr.social
2024-04-27T12:46:28Z
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I've been discovering far too many nice looking board games and solo TTRPG's over on Kickstarter 👀💸 but then I reach the part where they disclose they're using AI for the art (and sometimes writing) so I go right ahead and close that tab. It's getting more difficult and of course folks can easily lie - but I'm going to try my best to only support human artists. #AI #Art #BoardGames #TTRPG
(DIR) Post #AhJuRDyDfdcJPwcdQ8 by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2024-04-27T17:14:47Z
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@christian This is performative at best, self-destructive at worst.Or else it's contingent on making the argument that writers who are literally producing something you're interested in and which you want are not artists. I guess if you're going to shit on writers, you might as well be public about it.Would you pay a visual artist for a piece of their work, despite knowing that they have not sent money to or acknowledged the pieces of art that they've looked at in museums, on deviantART, or searched for photo references on the Internet to create?If so, why won't you give money to a textual artist who writes things you want to see and experience – and who will probably provide you more long-term pleasure and direct reward than any singular piece of art you might pay for – who is giving out exactly the same amount of money for illustration? Or quite possibly more depending on the techniques and methods and tools that they use.This isn't just a bad idea if you care about getting more things that you want and like in the TTRPG space – it's active hypocrisy, which is about all I expect.#TTRPG #AI #GenerativeArt
(DIR) Post #AhJwoakJMCXMcjO2m8 by christian@aldr.social
2024-04-27T17:41:38Z
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@lextenebris Bit much... I'm new to the TTRPG space, I haven't even played one yet.I'm just saying I'd rather spend my money on folks / teams that use human artists (there's plenty of them out there) or no art at all, that's fine too 🤷‍♂️ Writing is also art, I am not trying to diminish writing at all? "I guess if you're going to shit on writers, you might as well be public about it"Only if they solely relied on AI generative tools to create their work and spun up a kickstarter.
(DIR) Post #AhJxAAy3seYJ2q6uy8 by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2024-04-27T17:45:25Z
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@christian If they did so and produced something that looked interesting to you, wouldn't that actually be hurting yourself to avoid picking up? I'm not saying it's likely, I'm just saying that even in the degenerate case you'd be screwing yourself over.I don't think this is a bit much at all in terms of response. If anything, it's way more restrained than I'd like to be. That is some serious blatant hypocrisy if you see things you like and don't want to put money on them because you don't like the tools that went into making things that you like for reasons which are not really connected to reality.We are talking about TTRPGs and boardgames here, which are the product of writers and game designers (who have to write rules), and the art assets are illustrative and useful – but not the thing that you're actually paying for, because otherwise you would be just out buying art.When it comes to those products, you can have the things that look interesting to you and which may be an excellent play experience – or you can have nothing.I'm trying to explain to you why you're screwing yourself out of enjoyable experiences due to irrational prejudice. You can do with that whatever you like.
(DIR) Post #AhJzY11Aj1Jj2o3pNQ by christian@aldr.social
2024-04-27T18:12:14Z
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@lextenebris "wouldn't that actually be hurting yourself to avoid picking up?"No. Because I'd rather something human made. "That is some serious blatant hypocrisy if you see things you like and don't want to put money on them" I stop liking the thing when I find out AI tooling was mostly involved. I try to avoid putting money on things I don't like."but not the thing that you're actually paying for" For me it is, I cherish the art in my games, and I'd like that art to be human made.
(DIR) Post #AhKSvuQzke2uFLsvUO by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2024-04-27T23:41:30Z
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@christian But the game design, the writing, the effort to put it out, the ability to craft something interesting – that's not art, right? Certainly not human made, not a fellow human being who is producing something you have interest in… No, you would rather punish them for not throwing far more money than you are likely to be throwing at them ever.The fact that is utterly imperceptible to you, that you do not see that as a problem, that you don't understand that you are destroying the art someone is actually selling for the imagined art you envision might be sold… That's extraordinary.It's one of those situations where I'm sure you get what you deserve, and part of what you get are fewer games and entertainments that you enjoy.Have fun with that.
(DIR) Post #AhKhPqsCxF8rFQml7I by christian@aldr.social
2024-04-28T02:23:47Z
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@lextenebris I absolutely value the writing and game design… I see that as art too. Did I say otherwise? I’d even back an artless TTRPG if it sounded good.I just happen to also value visual art, and if it’s going to be there, my preference is for it to be human made. A kickstarter is to raise funds, perhaps plan for and hire an artist. There’s plenty of them around. What’s extraordinary to me is that you would rather the use of AI than support a fellow artist in this space.
(DIR) Post #AhKi1ftMEQQ4C4MHya by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2024-04-28T02:30:38Z
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@christian You've clearly never actually put together a book for publication in this space, including doing the layout and hiring the artists. If you had you would understand some very important things, including artists are stupidly expensive.I mean that exactly as I say it: they are stupidly expensive. Because so many people are visually oriented if you want to sell a game, you're going to need to need some art, and artists have had so little competition for so long you're looking at several hundred dollars out the door, just to begin with, to begin doing layout and good luck having only that for final production.That means that you are out the money from the beginning for every piece of art, every bit of illustration, all the time spent in layout, and the hours that you put in doing the writing and probably play testing in the space. You start deeply in the hole by up to $1000, minimum, very minimum, just to get off the blocks.
(DIR) Post #AhKi2FFukYG7sABIUi by lextenebris@social.vivaldi.net
2024-04-28T02:30:45Z
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@christian If you're like the vast majority of TTRPGs, you are going to sell at the outside 50 copies at an outrageously low cost. $20 if you're lucky. Maybe. $5 or $10 if you're in the indie space and you're already deep in the hole on the whole thing, but you have a dream that someone will one day by your work. At a loss.Now – remove $400 of that hole and replace it with $20 or less to a generative AI site.Now you can afford to actually make the project that the alternative is not having no art, the alternative is not being published.