Post AhIX8DiS1iIKycb5Pc by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #AhHWqs0uuh7nRgbU2q by coffeepine@beige.party
2024-04-25T14:28:45Z
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It's so tragically obvious that #Zionism is nothing but #fascism of another ilk. Underlying is the same greed for money, land and power that signifies #Capitalism.In the end, when all is said and done this is what it is. Fascism donning its favourite costume of #Nationalism and religious zealotry.Pointing that out is NOT antisemitism. Get it into your bloody heads.
(DIR) Post #AhHWqszBIdKYSanbyi by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-25T17:54:04Z
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@coffeepine Not sure I agree that it's not antisemitism but it sure is the dumbest thing I've heard in forever. Apparently you fail to understand both zionism and fascism.
(DIR) Post #AhHWqtwjjCy9RIfAo4 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-25T23:37:58Z
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@tqwhite @coffeepine Are you suggesting that anti-zionism (opposition to the political ideology of Zionism, which advocates for the establishment and support of a Jewish state in the land of Israel) is the same as antisemitism (prejudice, discrimination, or hostility directed against Jewish people based on their ethnicity or religion), and if so, how did you come to that conclusion?
(DIR) Post #AhHWqurSKKL6HDCTDM by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T00:07:02Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @coffeepine Jewish people were kicked out of Judea and abused in the diaspora. I believe that Jews have a right to have a place to live and exert their culture. It is my view that opposing the very idea that Jews should have a home is to say that they are not deserving of the privilege most other cultures can simply assume. I think that the claim that Jews should accept the role of subordinates in other peoples countries is antisemitic.
(DIR) Post #AhHWqvLwUyj3nlSojY by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T00:28:47Z
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@tqwhite @coffeepine I'm not suggesting that Jews shouldn't have a home, I'm only specifically against the state of Israel and am opposed to its actions against Palestinians. Someone being against the existence or actions of the Israeli government doesn't automatically make them antisemitic, and labeling anyone who shows opposition to the Israeli government as antisemitic undermines actual instances of antisemitism.
(DIR) Post #AhHyHg9ToyWFEncIWO by Bron1954@veganism.social
2024-04-26T01:06:44Z
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@tqwhite @Radical_EgoCom @coffeepine Firstly, Judaism is a religion not an ethnic group. No other country on Earth exists for a religious group, those who tried have been called cults. And the Palestinians are Semites, the Zionists are antisemitic.
(DIR) Post #AhHyHh38U32S1PekGu by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T18:44:41Z
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@Bron1954 @Radical_EgoCom @coffeepine OK, then. For me, it is obvious that the Jewish people is an ethnic group. I live in a world where anti-semitism is hostility toward Jewish people.You live in a topsy turvy where the Jews are not an ethnic group and anti-semitism is hatred of Palestinians. I have to say, I did not expect you to wander so far through into bizarro world.I stand by my explanation and, on rereading now, think it is right.
(DIR) Post #AhHyHhlRpIU4EqO8LA by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T18:48:40Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine I will just reiterate here that criticism of Israel or its policies should be carefully distinguished from antisemitism, which is hostility or prejudice against Jewish people.
(DIR) Post #AhIMvy8ImkkHUJoIq0 by Bron1954@veganism.social
2024-04-26T22:59:08Z
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@tqwhite @Radical_EgoCom @coffeepine Judaism is a religion not an ethnic group. Judaism was a late addition to the Semites which originally only included peoples from ethnic Arabic speaking people. Zionism is a political movement which is supported by people from all backgrounds. The creation of Israel based on a religion led to an apartheid State. The creation of Israel based on religion was always going to create problems for these reasons.
(DIR) Post #AhIMvymMNomvUYYIHA by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T23:15:25Z
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@Bron1954 @Radical_EgoCom @coffeepine When it was founded, it was explicitly inclusive of the Arab sort of people that lived there. The schism was a consequence of Arab hostility to which Israel responded. You are incorrect. It became a separatist state after Arabs attacked in forty eight. It’s not because it was a Jewish state unless you consider Jew hatred to be Israel’s fault.
(DIR) Post #AhIMvzCaoHlunupFAG by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T23:24:52Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine The schism started when Zionists tried to establish a government in a land where there was already an established government. It seems like the hostility came from Palestinians not wanting a government to be imposed on them, which is understandable.
(DIR) Post #AhIOuBDvhGdpYl7CbY by Bron1954@veganism.social
2024-04-26T23:34:19Z
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@tqwhite @Radical_EgoCom @coffeepine I regard Judaism as a religion with deep cultural history. It is no different to Islam, Christianity, Buddhism etc in that respect. Do you call yourself Italian if you are a Catholic? Israel was created as a result of WW2. In fact Zionists has collaborated with the Nazis to establish a Jewish State. Largely because the Nazis hated the Jews and they hated the Arabs for fighting alongside the ANZACS in the Middle East. It's a complex history. The point is that Israel is now guilty of inflicting genocide based on the Zionist movement, half of whom are Christian nutters who believe in the Rapture.
(DIR) Post #AhIOuC2Gg6uK4sfP4C by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T23:45:05Z
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@Bron1954 @Radical_EgoCom @coffeepine You are a racist idiot.
(DIR) Post #AhIOuCeuMRoe0ikGIK by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T23:46:58Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine What about the above comment is racist?
(DIR) Post #AhIPnjpajF8EotDuSG by Bron1954@veganism.social
2024-04-26T23:50:46Z
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@tqwhite @Radical_EgoCom @coffeepine No, I side with the Jews who are protesting against Israel's genocide of Palestinian people. You should acquaint yourself with the excellent journalist Antony Lowenstein. He is a Jew who lived for several years in Israel and saw what was happening. http://antonyloewenstein.com/
(DIR) Post #AhIQ0RHT0g3F3FJmfQ by Bron1954@veganism.social
2024-04-26T23:53:20Z
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@tqwhite @Radical_EgoCom @coffeepine On the contrary I fully support the courageous Jews speaking out against Israel's genocide of Palestinian people. You should read some of Antony Lowenstein's work. He is a Jew who lived in Israel for several years and saw first hand what was happening. http://antonyloewenstein.com/
(DIR) Post #AhIQ0RpUy9H0knExiC by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T23:57:12Z
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@Bron1954 @Radical_EgoCom @coffeepine Dude. You said the Zionists collaborated with Hitler. You are in a very deep hole of contempt. Find a way to take that back and I will stop thinking you a complete idiot.
(DIR) Post #AhIQ0SBTeQr1qxWVyC by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T23:59:18Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine There were instances of collaboration between some Zionist leaders and Nazi officials during the Holocaust, primarily motivated by efforts to save Jewish lives and facilitate the emigration of Jews from Nazi-controlled territories to Palestine. One notable example is the Haavara Agreement, a pact between Nazi Germany and the Zionist Federation of Germany in 1933, which facilitated the emigration of German Jews to Palestine while circumventing...
(DIR) Post #AhIQ15pCGgncnRPHnM by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-26T23:59:24Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine ...Nazi restrictions on the transfer of assets. However, it's important to note that these collaborations were controversial and divisive within the Jewish community, and they occurred in the context of desperate attempts to rescue Jews from persecution and genocide.
(DIR) Post #AhIRy1ftRQXOxsijHE by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-27T00:21:17Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @Bron1954 @coffeepine I have no doubt that there were the Jewish equivalent of the Vichy. You implied something completely different.
(DIR) Post #AhISfK9obDG4jvMWY4 by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-27T00:29:05Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @Bron1954 @coffeepine The region was under British control. There was never a Palestinian state. Before they coalesced against Israel there was no cohesive Palestinian ethnicity. They were a variety of tribal identities.
(DIR) Post #AhIUV1AEYozAqUltLc by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-27T00:49:39Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @Bron1954 @coffeepine I agree with that. Also, when people equate zionism with Israeli politics they are wrong.
(DIR) Post #AhIVB86d8oVuXQANjE by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-27T00:57:15Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine I didn't imply anything. I only told you the history of the situation.
(DIR) Post #AhIVN3vuTvdL4SqGky by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-27T00:59:25Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine There were established governments and communities in the region before the establishment of the modern state of Israel by Zionist leaders in 1948. The area known as Palestine was under Ottoman rule for centuries until the end of World War I, when it came under British control as a League of Nations mandate. During this time, various communities, including Palestinian Arabs, Jews, and others, inhabited the region. The establishment of the state of Israel in...
(DIR) Post #AhIVNdihQWSO3uwEAC by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-27T00:59:31Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine ...1948 led to significant changes in governance, demographics, and territorial control in the region, sparking conflict between Israelis and Palestinians that continues to this day.
(DIR) Post #AhIVcqQCU6yPncXGka by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-27T01:02:16Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @Bron1954 @coffeepine A government was legally created by the international community. The indigenous Palestinians did not like it and, with the Jew hating local Arab community, attempted to destroy the country. It did not work. I am no fan of Netanyahu but I do not agree with the characterization of genocide.
(DIR) Post #AhIVdiyndgjf0Z8fB2 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-27T01:02:26Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine You are correct. Equating Zionism with Israeli politics can be overly simplistic and misleading.
(DIR) Post #AhIVv7fd5nWYVZT5bE by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-27T01:05:32Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine Well of course they didn't like a bunch of people coming onto their land and establishing a government without their consent. People generally don't like imperialism when they're the victims of it. And it being legal doesn't equate with it being right. Something can be legal and wrong.
(DIR) Post #AhIWwvWBLUYLLrTP6W by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-27T01:17:06Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @Bron1954 @coffeepine they did not have a government. They had been living under British rule for a long time. It was absolutely not imperialism. Also, where would you have put the Jews?
(DIR) Post #AhIX6eXnJF8PbTrhpo by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-27T01:18:50Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine There were other places that Zionist Jews could have considered as potential destinations besides the Middle East. Throughout the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the Zionist movement explored various options for establishing a Jewish homeland, including locations in Africa, Asia, and the Americas.Some of the proposed alternatives to Palestine included regions in East Africa, such as Uganda, Kenya, and Tanzania. The British government even offered the...
(DIR) Post #AhIX8DiS1iIKycb5Pc by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-27T01:19:09Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine ...Uganda Scheme in 1903 as a temporary solution to the Jewish refugee crisis, although it was ultimately rejected by most Zionist leaders.Additionally, there were efforts to establish Jewish agricultural colonies in places like Argentina, Brazil, and North America. However, the idea of returning to the historical land of Israel held deep religious and cultural significance for many Zionist Jews, leading to the eventual focus on Palestine as the...
(DIR) Post #AhIX8iMY5CC81faX4q by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-27T01:19:14Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine ...primary destination for Jewish resettlement.
(DIR) Post #AhIZGST1GYeYx3R2AK by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-27T01:43:02Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @Bron1954 @coffeepine You are knowledgeable. Thank you. These are things I know about. The dedication to the homeland was decisive. Also valid in my view.
(DIR) Post #AhIZnKvWK0OZ7cRZXE by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-27T01:48:58Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine Deciding to establish a government in a location where there are existing communities against the wishes of those communities all because a religious holy book says so isn't valid in my opinion, no more valid as when the Americans did a similar thing during Manifest Destiny.
(DIR) Post #AhLZl8wyKrIguzcDZo by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T12:32:42Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @Bron1954 @coffeepine I agree. Since that's not what happened, you win.
(DIR) Post #AhLf4lcNIF8G7K9qL2 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T13:32:17Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine That is what happened regarding the Israeli occupation.
(DIR) Post #AhM5V5V9P4hekSzceW by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T18:28:21Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @Bron1954 @coffeepine Except for the part where it is not true, you completely right. Before Israel, there was Britain. Before them, there were nomadic groups and villages, including Jewish ones for decades.
(DIR) Post #AhM6Rn1vis9aXvJgSu by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T18:32:59Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @Bron1954 @coffeepine While you seem like a nice, smart person, your judgement of validity isn't really important. It was ratified by the international community as a legal country. It is a fact, just as is racist old America. Jews have as good a right to the place as the Palestinians (I would argue better) and when they tried to include them, the Palestinians tried to overthrow Israel.I am very angry about many things Israel but arguing about its right to exist is pointless.
(DIR) Post #AhM6RnjB84kSi3YDsO by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T18:38:58Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine You mentioned that it was made a legal country as if it being legal justified any of what happened. Rights are, or at least should, only be assigned to people. No government has a right to exist, and even more so no country has a right to force people to live under that government. Have you ever considered that the Palestinians didn't want to be included in the Israeli government and that they should've had the right to not have that government forced on them?
(DIR) Post #AhM79XnBjnNY1qHie8 by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T18:46:54Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @Bron1954 @coffeepine no. I don’t think any of us get to choose not to live under a government. There are always competing rights. Jews living there had rights, too. The world decided the government is Israel. Palestinians have no more right to change that than Texans get to dissolve the state of Texas.
(DIR) Post #AhM82qSA3h0jpboqR6 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T18:56:48Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine Your argument is basically, "Other people do this horrible thing all the time, so it was fine this time too". I don't care how much of a normal occurrence something is, that doesn't make it right. I bet if the roles were reversed and Palestinians were the ones that forced Jews to live under their government you'd call it antisemitic, but because it's the other way around you think it's antisemitic to be against it.
(DIR) Post #AhM8DQg0Ehrn4VLA5Q by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T18:48:17Z
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@fnardinator @Radical_EgoCom @Bron1954 @coffeepine You keep saying that and it keeps not being what happened. Nobody was killed to establish Israel. It was done with a legal process. Nobody was killed until people tried to overthrow the government.
(DIR) Post #AhM8DRWp4K7LiK3LPs by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T18:58:48Z
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@tqwhite @fnardinator @Bron1954 @coffeepine "Nobody was killed to establish America. It was done through legal processes. Nobody was killed until the Native Americans tried to overthrow the government." That's how you sound to everyone else.
(DIR) Post #AhM8OremGTA5w1Dh6u by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T19:00:51Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @Bron1954 @coffeepine except for the part where it wasn’t a horrible thing. There was no ‘Palestine nation’ that was pushed aside. There was no reason for the people that lived there to be mad about. The constitution of Israel made everyone equal citizens. Nobody was abused until they tried to overthrow. And that decision was, in fact, Jew hatred.
(DIR) Post #AhM8ZJ7B1zJZzSU0hc by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T19:02:45Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @fnardinator @Bron1954 @coffeepine But that’s silly. There were many Native American governments. Many of them tried to live in peace with the Europeans who weren’t having it. There was an actual government policy to extinguish them. It was completely different.
(DIR) Post #AhM8qrvopuIItaXogq by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T19:05:56Z
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@tqwhite @Bron1954 @coffeepine You keep mentioning that there was no Palestinian Nation as if that justifies what happened, which it doesn't. Even if there was no Palestinian Nation there were still people there who, for whatever reason, didn't want to live under an Israeli government and should have had the right to not have it forced on them.
(DIR) Post #AhM8xq3YCtAL6fU5ia by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T19:07:11Z
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@tqwhite @fnardinator @Bron1954 @coffeepine Why does it matter so much to you whether there was a government or not? Is your line of thinking that if there is no government then that gives any other group of people the right to do whatever they want?
(DIR) Post #AhM9505LJmPsEnjn9c by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T19:06:43Z
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@fnardinator @Radical_EgoCom @Bron1954 @coffeepine Why do you have to go all ad hominem? We’re having a perfectly nice argument and you have to get nasty. Stop it.
(DIR) Post #AhM9516RXAtHOVGBVY by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T19:08:29Z
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@tqwhite @fnardinator @Bron1954 @coffeepine This is in no way a nice conversation, solely due to your justifying of imperialism
(DIR) Post #AhM99QmjzRw8Ck9Jq4 by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T19:09:17Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @Bron1954 @coffeepine I 100% dispute the right to have no government. All places have to have a government. Nobody gets to choose not to. We are all forced to live under a government. Many of us do not prefer the one we get. Sucks to be a human on earth.
(DIR) Post #AhM9KFaXxXsYfEbYUS by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T19:11:14Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @fnardinator @Bron1954 @coffeepine If I had the same view as you, it wouldn’t be very interesting wouldn’t it? Also, stop saying nasty stuff. I’m not justifying imperialism. As matter@of definition, imperialism is the assertion of government by a larger power over a smaller one. Israel is not that.
(DIR) Post #AhM9g8deTnfVTpUhEG by louisrcouture@jasette.facil.services
2024-04-28T19:12:54Z
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@tqwhite @Radical_EgoCom @coffeepine this sounds a lot like white supremacist bs that white race need a home of their own, but applied to judaism
(DIR) Post #AhM9gSC1mDSI7wiuwq by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T19:15:14Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @fnardinator @Bron1954 @coffeepine My line of thinking is that humans band together in societies. Those societies grow and seek additional resources. That leads inevitably to government. One might like to imagine some situation where there was a space for nomads to live independently but if it happened, it would be unstable and exist only until a more powerful societies my asserted authority over it. It’s not what I like. It’s what I consider inevitable and necessary.
(DIR) Post #AhMAULb8ZSLa9VG90C by tqwhite@mastodon.social
2024-04-28T19:19:20Z
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@louisrcouture @Radical_EgoCom @coffeepine Id say it resembles that in some ways. The difference is that when it israel is a pluralistic society. The Palestinians didn’t want to participate. They tried to overthrow the government and now are not citizens of Israel. They did, in fact, exercise their right not to live with the Jews. But, they never stopped trying to destroy Israel and Israel was not willing to be destroyed. Some similarities but a LOT of differences.
(DIR) Post #AhMAUMDQH6yK4FAig4 by louisrcouture@jasette.facil.services
2024-04-28T19:22:47Z
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@tqwhite @Radical_EgoCom @coffeepine palestinians get their homes destroyed and forcefully taken. This is the same thing that happened to native Americans and in some ways french acadians under British Colonial rule. Palestinians do not have the right to move freely in israel. They are considered second class people. It's also similar to apartheid in South Africa.