Post AdYxRvuufySMP7qe92 by LevZadov@kolektiva.social
(DIR) More posts by LevZadov@kolektiva.social
(DIR) Post #AdYxRoRaSbq5E94cxk by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-01-04T16:18:55Z
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When politicians describe the advisory in a war as "the forces of evil" I have a hard time taking them seriously. It just makes it seem like all they understand is that the country or group is doing things they don't like and have have no idea why they are making those choices, however destructive, or horrifying they might be. But politicians regularly revert to this nursery school language, so the way I see it must not be typical.
(DIR) Post #AdYxRpLb6Mds1rHMGW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-01-04T16:55:28Z
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Sometimes I think the "forces of evil" language is used to help keep US audiences who don't pay much attention to international politics clear as to what side they are supposed to "root" for. But... the only "rooting" that should go on during any war is rooting for the war to end and for peace. How the heck is that controversial.
(DIR) Post #AdYxRqEBpOJKlAoxMG by msbellows@c.im
2024-01-04T17:10:13Z
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@futurebird I sort of disagree. Russia right now is the bad guy, and Ukraine is the good guy. I don't just want the war to end; I want it to end with Russia losing badly and Ukraine's borders being restored and its kidnapped citizens returned.
(DIR) Post #AdYxRr5MdgqTQ5hQEy by LevZadov@kolektiva.social
2024-01-04T21:20:43Z
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@msbellows @futurebird As an anarchist, I don't take sides in wars between nation states. No war but the Class War. Neither Ukraine nor Russia have the right to even exist, let alone kill each other's citizens. States do not exist by right, but by force of arms. This is true of *all* states, your own included. I can't help but notice, though, that as far as the Russians are concerned, the "Ukrainian" land they hold now *is* Russia. It was annexed 1783, sixty two years before the US annexed Texas.
(DIR) Post #AdYxRruPZtg7yPaBo8 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-01-04T21:32:12Z
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@LevZadov @msbellows This is nonsense. Reflect on what an invasion would be like, not of your "nation" but of where you live. If you aren't trolling please read more. If you are trolling get better taste.
(DIR) Post #AdYxRsfYkbOOKddqIS by LevZadov@kolektiva.social
2024-01-04T23:14:09Z
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@futurebird @msbellows If being against war makes one a troll, what does that that make warmongers? Have we not yet had our fill of proxy wars between competing empires? If not, what's that make us?This is not a moral issue. It's a pragmatic one. Ukraine will run out of cannon fodder long before Russia does. Ergo, Ukraine's loss of this war is inevitable, so every death it spawns is a futile, useless, avoidable atrocity. I don't care who started it. I don't care who's fault it is. It's a war, so I'm against it. I'm against *all* wars. I didn't even fight in Vietnam, despite being formally invited. Do you think I should have? Why? What would I have gained besides PTSD and blood on my hands? Only the Industrial Complex gains from war. Like Country Joe said those many years ago, there's plenty good money to be made supplying the tools of the trade. If we the people let it, America will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. Even more blood will be on American hands, as if there wasn't enough already. Spoiler: There's more than enough already. We're a bloodthirsty people. If it wasn't for genocide there wouldn't even *be* an America. It's far past time that we cleaned up our act.War doesn't decide who's right, only who's left. All wars are civil wars. War is evil. Stop this war now. Stop *all* wars now. There is no excuse for the flower of either side's youth being fed into this ghastly meat grinder. It's WWI redux. Neither side can win but Ukraine can lose. A look at the map, and not the propaganda we're fed on TV, shows clearly that Ukraine is already losing. In any stalemate, the side with the most reserves wins. In this case, that's Russia. Right or wrong, love it or hate it, Russia holds the winning hand. Russians are not our enemy. They're more like us than we are. It is Putin who is our enemy. He's their enemy, too, but only Russians themselves can bring him down. The West can't do it. To try, even by proxy, is a waste of blood and treasure, and only strengthens his hand. He's an evil man. Strengthening him is immoral."Rule 1, on page 1 of the book of war, is: 'Do not march on Moscow'. Various people have tried it, Napoleon and Hitler, and it is no good." -- Bernard Montgomery
(DIR) Post #AdYxRtTtjResqlC2l6 by accretionist@techhub.social
2024-01-05T07:14:17Z
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@LevZadov @futurebird @msbellows "I don't care about who started it. I don't care whose fault it is."So then stop talking about it if you don't care.Ah but you do care: you're writing a multiparagraph reply that absolves Russia of blame, when it is to blame.You're intellectually and morally bankrupt with this weak handwaving and posturing.The worst part is your belief you're coming from some lofty position. When your rationale is repugnantly amoral.
(DIR) Post #AdYxRuCZ3NO55I5iNc by LevZadov@kolektiva.social
2024-01-05T16:34:10Z
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@accretionist @futurebird @msbellows (1.) An ad hominem is not a rebuttal. It's a way of showing that the speaker is out of ammo. It is also a way to change the subject. War is the subject, not me. Please try to stay on topic. Thanks in advance.(2.) I don't care about who started it. I don't care whose fault it is. I care that it ends ASAP, before any more cannon fodder die unnecessary deaths. That's what I'm talking about. You're talking about prolonging the slaughter. Why? How is that of any benefit to you, or your family, or any one else that you care about, especially the poor, long suffering, Ukrainian people? Not a rhetorical question. Be specific.(3.) I did not absolve Russia of blame. That's factually incorrect, in addition to being a blatant ad hominem. Russia (the state, not the people) is as guilty as NATO. The two are fighting a proxy war in Ukrainians' front yards. How would you like it if two of the worlds biggest hegemons fought a bloody proxy war in your front yard? Koreans have a saying, when whales fight, a shrimp's back is broken. If any people on earth know that, it's Koreans. "We burned down every town in North Korea... we killed off twenty percent of the population" -- US General Curtis LeMayThere's a saying in French, "Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose." It means something along the lines of déjà vu."History does not repeat itself, but it rhymes." -- Mark Twain (attributed)Nowadays Ukraine, Palestine, Sudan, Myanmar, Syria, Jammu and Kashmir join the list of brokeback shrimp. These bloodbaths won't stop until we, the people of Earth, force them to stop, by any means necessary.(3.) The ultimate blame lies with nationalism. It's a form of mental disorder at complete odds with reality. In reality, countries come and go. Only the Earth abides. For details, see:Countries That No Longer Existhttps://www.thoughtco.com/missing-countries-1435425"When we have undermined the patriotic lie, we shall have cleared the path for the great structure where all shall be united into a universal brotherhood, a truly free society." -- Emma Goldman(4.) Edwin Starr said it better than I can. Half a century later he's still right, it's still true, and it's more relevant than ever. "War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing."For the rest of the lyrics, see:https://www.songfacts.com/lyrics/edwin-starr/warBetter still, listen to the original:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQHUAJTZqF0&t=9s
(DIR) Post #AdYxRv6DiRuHru8A88 by accretionist@techhub.social
2024-01-05T16:42:23Z
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@LevZadov @futurebird @msbellows "I don't care about who started it. I don't care whose fault it is. "i got this far and i stopped readingon these self-stated terms, you are telling me you do not wish to comment seriously on this topicbecause who started it, and whose fault it is, is not only relevant, it's the deciding factorif you ignore it, you can bloviate for years (which is also very telling, because you "don't care"... uhuh, yup)so i all i see is that you lack coherency or you are being purposefully deceitful. due to your lack of awareness of the most important factor, or your cheap manipulation by ignoring it
(DIR) Post #AdYxRvuufySMP7qe92 by LevZadov@kolektiva.social
2024-01-05T17:10:28Z
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@accretionist @futurebird @msbellows (1.) "I got this far and i stopped reading"? So the doesn't even know what I said. So he has a lot of gall criticize it?(2.) Who started it, and whose fault it is, is *not* the deciding factor. The deciding factor is how much cannon fodder has to die before it ends. (3.) An ad hominem is not a rebuttal. It's proof that the speaker is out of ammo.(4.) "you lack coherency or you are being purposefully deceitful," etc.I'm here for civil discourse. When people instead insult me, I block them. @accretionist is blocked for rudeness.
(DIR) Post #AdYxRwwMs3DLZvXK3E by gnarley_boot@norwoodzero.net
2024-01-06T08:00:59.031285Z
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@LevZadov @accretionist @futurebird @msbellows The absolute reddit nigger, right here everyone!