Post AdWTMVCPCPQf9RbXFo by HeavenlyPossum@kolektiva.social
(DIR) More posts by HeavenlyPossum@kolektiva.social
(DIR) Post #AdWTLwsMoPCKhRy3Ie by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2023-12-28T15:08:47Z
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@breadandcircuses "After all, the purpose of a company is not to save the world — it is to make a profit"Obviously. This is like complaining that the purpose of a hospital isn't to save the world but to treat the sick and injured, or that the purpose of a car isn't to save the world but to move people around. If it takes 200 pages for people to figure out that companies are supposed to turn a profit...I'm afraid they're going to need a lot more than one book to catch up.
(DIR) Post #AdWTLxqHDf7VhFztgG by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-12-29T08:05:39Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @breadandcircusesThe problem is that make their profits in direct opposition to the interests of the world, and externalise their societal costs: they don't pay the cost for the damage they do. We end up paying that cost. And this is the major problem with how our current system works.
(DIR) Post #AdWTLzGBwnRa5v86iG by peteriskrisjanis@toot.lv
2023-12-29T11:45:06Z
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@mcv @breadandcircuses @AlexanderKingsbury I find this monetary motivation corrupting and false in the end. It does not encourage good decision making, it doesn't make entity more effective at production, it doesn't improve lifes of people working there or even owning it.It is just a primite formula justified by "owning capital encourages engagement with the world" which is sociopath justification of their world view.
(DIR) Post #AdWTM0K7zeBdOPylUG by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2023-12-29T11:47:56Z
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@peteriskrisjanis @mcv @breadandcircuses Do you find any sort of profit-based motive as negative, or only ones where people make money specifically?
(DIR) Post #AdWTM19WuXIrxq1obg by peteriskrisjanis@toot.lv
2023-12-29T11:53:37Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @mcv @breadandcircuses I find it problematic that "profit" hides multitudes of motivations, starting from ensuring basic necessities, and ending of greedy hoarding of capital. My belief is to live good life, and ensure good life for people, profit shouldn't be here. Profit is a way to ensure people who are greed motivated rules. It is self serving, self feeding mechanic who does not improve much of our lives in the end truly.
(DIR) Post #AdWTM24xT1Eypwtg7U by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2023-12-29T11:55:47Z
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@peteriskrisjanis @mcv @breadandcircuses Seems to me like it's improved a lot of lives. The standard of living is highest in places where capitalism is the dominant system. Yes, it does allow us to motivate greedy people. Which is pretty much everyone; very, very few people are content with having just what they truly need.
(DIR) Post #AdWTM31RxY1plMGOI4 by hugh@mastodon.nz
2023-12-30T12:13:04Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @peteriskrisjanis @mcv @breadandcircusesThe standard of living _for_some_ is highest where capitalism is the dominant system. The most capitalistic societies have the most inequality and are worst for the environment. Benign and moderate regulation lifts the poorest and may protect our habitat.
(DIR) Post #AdWTM40QIqnkoSn5KS by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2023-12-30T12:20:58Z
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@hugh @peteriskrisjanis @mcv @breadandcircuses Yes, many people bring up this "inequality" thing. It's just never clicked with me, I guess. I'd rather live in a world where there's a lot of inequality but everyone has at least a decent standard of living than a world where everyone has the same amount and it's barely enough to survive.
(DIR) Post #AdWTM4kVXVfH7OLtA0 by HeavenlyPossum@kolektiva.social
2023-12-30T13:43:39Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @breadandcircuses @peteriskrisjanis @mcv @hugh The problem of inequality is threefold:- inequality produced demonstrable harms to people regardless of the material context;- inequality of ownership can generate unfreedoms for people with less or no ownership; and - inequality of ownership is itself a symptom of deeper systems of unfreedom.We don’t have to assume that our only two options are inequality or impoverished equality; that’s question begging.
(DIR) Post #AdWTM5WieGEHWuuOJ6 by hugh@mastodon.nz
2023-12-30T17:16:42Z
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@HeavenlyPossum @AlexanderKingsbury @breadandcircuses @peteriskrisjanis @mcvThanks. Well answered. And saving human life on earth may well mean reducing our population greatly. If we don't do it ourselves in the kindest way by reducing our birth rate, nature will do it to us, catastrophically and cruelly, killing the poor especially.
(DIR) Post #AdWTM6EK296ji9JDGq by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2023-12-30T17:20:32Z
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@hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @peteriskrisjanis @mcv I'm not sure. People have said that we would face mass starvation or other catastrophes many times, at much lower populations than we're at now. Thanks to things like agricultural technologies, we can feed way, WAY more people than we used to. We are stressing the environment, there's no question about that, but I don't see any critical reason why we would have to have a smaller population in order to fix that.
(DIR) Post #AdWTM6s1eWrnhHsv9k by hugh@mastodon.nz
2023-12-30T17:26:53Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @peteriskrisjanis @mcvYou don't? Well, I suggest you look closer, because it seems pretty obvious to me.
(DIR) Post #AdWTM7X9BdlBkp7lFg by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2023-12-30T17:27:31Z
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@hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @peteriskrisjanis @mcv It has seemed obvious to many people in the past, too.
(DIR) Post #AdWTM8EkZWddw3WaDQ by hugh@mastodon.nz
2023-12-31T19:41:34Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @peteriskrisjanis @mcv#whataboutism So Fv<king What? I'm talking about now.
(DIR) Post #AdWTM8ua406C1n5zPs by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2023-12-31T19:43:57Z
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@hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @peteriskrisjanis @mcv It's a worthwhile lesson from history. People claimed there was going to be mass starvation once we had a billion people. We now have more than 8 times that many, with many of them eating far too much rather than too little. Historically, we have found ways to adapt and overcome.
(DIR) Post #AdWTM9s8UZjn0UxYFE by hugh@mastodon.nz
2024-01-01T10:36:51Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @peteriskrisjanis @mcvNot many of them are eating too much, compared to the vast number who are eating too little or even starving. Yes, much of the problem is allocation, but we're not doing it. Yesterday's solutions may not work today, and eventually cannot work. The earth's resources are finite and we've wasted then. Your Pollyannaism shoots itself in the foot.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMAgpS6HrXig2G8 by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T10:40:56Z
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@hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @peteriskrisjanis @mcv "Not many of them are eating too much, compared to the vast number who are eating too little or even starving."1.9 billion adults are overweight, to 462 million that are underweight. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/malnutrition/Over 4 TIMES as many adults are eating too much as too little. Call it pollyannism all you want; these are facts, and it's never bad to learn from history.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMBQYi4rnpY4YXQ by peteriskrisjanis@toot.lv
2024-01-01T13:18:03Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv few things to be skeptical about here - first of all, evidence of the past is not evidence of future, we know why we could increase agricultural surplus, and we also know why this will be huge challenge in future due of costs inflicted on our environment. Keeping everyone fed even with stable populous will require incredible scientific feats.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMCEtgv8ILfcl04 by peteriskrisjanis@toot.lv
2024-01-01T13:19:10Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv second, resource allocation essentially is what at core of my opinion why this economical system is dead end for humanity and society, it leaves too many without help, and unless system dramatically changes overall tone, I am better off without it.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMCwr3UIKY0BrW4 by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T13:24:07Z
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@peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv Evidence of the past isn't proof of what will happen in the future, but it's still VERY instructive. People have been saying the sky is falling for centuries, but humanity is very good at finding solutions to problems. As to resource allocation; that's the entire question economics seeks to answer. How do we best allocate scarce resources? A system that results in abundance is going to have more capacity to help the poor.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMDfAOjjwlQvFaK by peteriskrisjanis@toot.lv
2024-01-01T13:29:32Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv no, it is not. Fact happening in the past is not enough, you need solid evidence. Right now evidence says this is it, this is the end of the party. Party we didn't really need, which benefited people who were greedy.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMERNVUIxAxTkjQ by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T13:30:44Z
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@peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv "no, it is not." to which part?
(DIR) Post #AdWTMF7Yye35HnDRU8 by hugh@mastodon.nz
2024-01-01T16:28:20Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @peteriskrisjanis @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcvTo this part: "A system that results in abundance is going to have more capacity to help the poor.""Capacity" is not enough when the system is that the rich do _not_ help the poor (let alone abolish poverty) but take and keep most of that abundance for themselves, and exhaust the earth's resources (and crash the earths climate) in the process of generating it.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMFyjmwaDwi5uMq by hugh@mastodon.nz
2024-01-01T16:42:48Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @peteriskrisjanis @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcvYou saw how the rich think at COPout28, hosted by one of them. They are not about to redistribute ("their") wealth or quickly stop burning fossil fuels, when Charles III flies there in one private jet and Rishi Sunak in another. If they weren't all hypocrites, the whole thing would have been a video conference.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMGoUgVz2XEJF2W by peteriskrisjanis@toot.lv
2024-01-01T16:51:18Z
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@hugh @AlexanderKingsbury @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv There are several very flawed logic - capitalism doesn't end up with abundance, it ends up with taking resources away from somewhere and making abundance localized. It is resource magnet, not effective development of society. There are other more effective ways to develop things.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMHlh8PL3Uq0WJc by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T17:46:23Z
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@peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv And those other, more effective ways, whether they exist or not, are more than welcome to do their thing. Of course capitalism creates abundance; look at, say, the US versus Venezuela. We literally have people who can afford plenty of food and yet choose to eat exclusively out of dumpsters. We make so much high-quality food that the waste is a problem.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMIaO5vt823j0KW by Winter@aus.social
2024-01-02T09:50:25Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv if you told me this was a parody account I'd believe you. This is so intensely naive and myopic. It speaks so much to how the US is the most propagandised populace in the world.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMJhrvbSzVYEUd6 by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T09:53:38Z
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@Winter @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv Hey, dismiss whoever you like for any reason you want. Personally, I don't feel the need to regard someone as a troll or a parody just because I disagree with them.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMKO3OlD7cNyBNo by Winter@aus.social
2024-01-02T11:03:11Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv I am not disagreeing with you, I'm saying you haven't even fathomed what you're talking about. Americans are not overweight because there's an excess of "high quality food". While there may be a waste of high quality food, one of the major reasons people are overweight is because they can't access that food. Your pointing to Venezuela is so telling that you've just taken on the propaganda and actually have no understanding of the subject you're discussing. I have no doubt in my mind you know nothing about whatever you think the issues might be in Venezuela. You clearly know even less about the people suffering poverty in the US.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMKzHAMz7TpNuOu by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T11:30:54Z
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@Winter @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv I'm not only talking about obese Americans, and obese people are obese because they have eaten and usually are still eating too many calories; whether that's from "high quality food" or not doesn't change that basic fact, and the fact that other factors exist doesn't change that basic fact. You can draw whatever conclusions you like from my examples, and assume whatever you like about my level of knowledge.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMLsDs4wAEF5n2u by Winter@aus.social
2024-01-02T11:54:37Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv do you think that's how learning works? You just change the topic being discussed until you find one simple enough that you can say whatever is already in your head, and if no one challenges you, then you've won?
(DIR) Post #AdWTMMigj0u8qxdgp6 by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2024-01-03T02:07:03Z
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@Winter @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv No, I'm also not the sort to declare victory in a conversation. I never said "I've won", or anything of the sort. And I have been challenged on this; sadly, some people seem to deny that obesity involves eating too many calories.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMNXjfDjnPHWSOG by Winter@aus.social
2024-01-03T20:29:04Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv ridiculous statement. You know that's not true, and you know that's not the point you were challenged on.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMOR2LbyQAnOcaW by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2024-01-04T01:18:51Z
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@Winter @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv I do know that that's true, and I was challenged on it. But you can believe whatever you like.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMP7ZnS08IjIatU by Winter@aus.social
2024-01-04T02:01:28Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv my dude, have eyes, I can look through the thread. No one is trying to convince you that people are overweight for reasons unrelated to caloric intake. You're conflating calories with nutrition. Someone having an excessive caloric intake does not mean they can't simultaneously be malnourished, as many people are in the USA.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMPqF7NjKXGCGW0 by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2024-01-04T08:56:51Z
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@Winter @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv "Someone having an excessive caloric intake does not mean they can simultaneously be malnourished, as many people are in the USA."Actually, it does mean that. Someone can do both such things at the same time. You can eat too many calories and still have a diet deficient in other nutrients.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMQew4uHP4TukWu by Winter@aus.social
2024-01-04T09:05:55Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv yeah, that was my point. I had a typo.If you know that, then why are you arguing against inequality in the US by pointing to obesity rates?
(DIR) Post #AdWTMRWSrt67kUxUxs by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2024-01-04T09:09:33Z
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@Winter @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv "If you know that, then why are you arguing against inequality in the US by pointing to obesity rates?"I'm doing absolutely nothing of the sort. I used the incidence of worldwide obesity as compared with malnourishment as proof of my claim, contested by another user here, that more people on earth are eating too much than too little.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMS82cB9hd2XVXE by Winter@aus.social
2024-01-04T09:47:01Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv do you even know what your point is? You're arguing that capitalism is good because it makes so much food that we can have a lot of overweight people while simultaneously having them be undernourished and others be starving.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMT0HMWXaLFup4i by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2024-01-04T09:52:22Z
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@Winter @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv I'm arguing, among other things, that capitalism clearly creates abundance; so much so that we have problems stemming from that abundance, such as the aforementioned obesity. And that a system which creates abundance clearly and obviously has more capacity to provide for the poor than one that does not.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMTiwgSGmZmoUhE by Winter@aus.social
2024-01-04T11:40:12Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv that a system has abundant capacity does not in any way imply it has any possible mechanism or realistic capability to provide for everyone.It's been centuries. If capitalism were going to be able to provide for everyone... when are we going to see it mature to that state? How come it's always, always, always prevented from providing for everyone by people who produce and consume more than they could ever need in multiple lifetimes? Given that this has been a core feature of capitalism from day one, what makes you think it's ever going to change?
(DIR) Post #AdWTMUQY4L9El1DJey by AlexanderKingsbury@mastodon.social
2024-01-05T01:36:43Z
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@Winter @peteriskrisjanis @hugh @HeavenlyPossum @breadandcircuses @mcv It's been centuries...but during nearly all that time, we've had cronyism. There are many, MANY mechanisms by which the government harms the poor, mechanisms that a free market would see swept aside. It's largely not those who produce and consume a great deal who stand in the way of helping the poor, except insofar as they do it through regulatory capture and other means enabled by the government.
(DIR) Post #AdWTMVCPCPQf9RbXFo by HeavenlyPossum@kolektiva.social
2024-01-05T03:13:23Z
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@peteriskrisjanis @breadandcircuses @Winter @AlexanderKingsbury @hugh @mcv We definitely have capitalism (3 days ago):“Of course capitalism creates abundance; look at, say, the US versus Venezuela. We literally have people who can afford plenty of food and yet choose to eat exclusively out of dumpsters. We make so much high-quality food that the waste is a problem.”We don’t have capitalism, we have cronyism (1 hour ago):“It’s been centuries…but during nearly all that time, we’ve had cronyism…mechanisms that a free market would see swept aside.”This is Schrödinger’s capitalism, simultaneously the system we have which is responsible for all our wealth but also the system we’ve never had because of all the bad people who won’t let us have capitalism but do create all our problems.
(DIR) Post #AdWUdlkL1uNvLhH1NY by riggbeck@mastodon.social
2023-12-28T19:42:55Z
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@AlexanderKingsbury @breadandcircuses Hospitals don't routinely pretend to be anything other than hospitals. Companies, however, pretend to be your friend, always having your best interests at heart, while selling you things you absolutely must have to be happy. And they also pretend that all this is produced by methods that won't harm your health or the environment. A lot of people still believe them, so Greta's message is more necessary than ever.