Post AdVoydmHejEkdoSASm by 3dogcouch@mas.to
(DIR) More posts by 3dogcouch@mas.to
(DIR) Post #AdTcbrZsavDz0x6VU0 by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-03T18:13:52Z
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I could hardly believe that statistic I just reposted was true: more than half of U.S. adults 16 to 74 read at below a 6th grade level?But I checked, and Snopes says it's true. https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/08/02/us-literacy-rate/How discouraging and infuriating.
(DIR) Post #AdTck7OveCgcPFuzUu by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-03T18:15:16Z
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In addition to making me think about why we have so many problems in our country, the low literacy rate also gave me a new perspective on why YouTube is so popular as a source of information.
(DIR) Post #AdTcrhvoE8FljKut04 by design_law@mastodon.social
2024-01-03T18:16:31Z
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@grammargirl š®
(DIR) Post #AdTcx60e8IZzr3kSuW by SergKoren@writing.exchange
2024-01-03T18:17:37Z
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@grammargirl It doesnāt take much nowadays to be smarter than the averageā¦
(DIR) Post #AdTd2SvWM1LINauZea by ttpphd@mastodon.social
2024-01-03T18:18:37Z
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@grammargirlYes for real! I think about this all the time. Science communication that only reaches people who can read is inadequate.
(DIR) Post #AdTdDESuShN0iIf9nc by apokalyptic@mastodon.social
2024-01-03T18:20:25Z
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@grammargirl I've been dealing with this (and seen it getting worse) since the late 90s. It's insane to have to write tech support articles to a 3rd-grade level. Even now, my content marketing aimed at business owners has to target a middle-school reading level or I'll lose my audience. š
(DIR) Post #AdTdGzq0mvIIVQGOem by mittensmcsmithers@mastodon.world
2024-01-03T18:21:17Z
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@grammargirl Every SEO plugin I use in my work will literally highlight multisyllabic words it deems "too hard for readers to understand" and states it may affect my SEO scores.I die a little inside each time. And don't get me started on all the Medium articles I read where nearly every paragraph is a single sentence long.Algorithms are LITERALLY making people more stupid in return for Internet likes.
(DIR) Post #AdTdTG0wTFcG9PDrCy by StaceyCornelius@mstdn.ca
2024-01-03T18:23:29Z
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@grammargirl I run a šØš¦nonprofit reading program for kids in grades 4-6 and itās tough to keep it funded properly so clubs can get books. Itās so frustrating.
(DIR) Post #AdTdUu5kws4cjsG8sC by Nonya_Bidniss@mas.to
2024-01-03T18:23:48Z
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@grammargirl And tiktok and instagram. It's very disturbing.
(DIR) Post #AdTdpJSWLMvLCndgTw by cynblogger@sfba.social
2024-01-03T18:27:29Z
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@grammargirl A few years ago I wrote a monthly op/ed column for a city newspaper and their guidelines specified writing at a sixth-grade level.
(DIR) Post #AdTeD6A5Qzb6ulMI1w by aleen@wandering.shop
2024-01-03T18:31:44Z
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@grammargirl Yup! I have my BS in technical writing and was taught to target a 3rd-6th grade reading level, depending upon results of audience analyses
(DIR) Post #AdTeQTMqT1NeeOhgVk by fulanigirl@blacktwitter.io
2024-01-03T18:34:12Z
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@grammargirl This squares well with my experience teaching in the hell state that is Florida. One in 5 American adults is illiterate (not just Florida). Another 1 in 5 is functionally illiterate. So we are already at 2 in 5 that cannot read.
(DIR) Post #AdTeVRsjPztXUTzUyO by SaanichGuy@mstdn.ca
2024-01-03T18:35:06Z
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@grammargirl Proves the US needs more immigrants because immigrants know the value of an education! From Finishing HS and getting a trade upwards, everything requires an ability to read and deal with technical language.
(DIR) Post #AdTeWewYLCW0I3M6qG by Barbramon1@mas.to
2024-01-03T18:35:21Z
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@patrickstewart I began to notice a downturn in the quality of written business communications In the early 90s. As a manager at a large HMO most of the people I dealt with were college grads.I have no trouble believing that reading and writing skills are in steep decline in the US.
(DIR) Post #AdTfUQxlRtWaJ0QPFg by UncivilServant@med-mastodon.com
2024-01-03T18:46:07Z
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@grammargirl It's actually even worse than it sounds. Most of us reading this may think "oh, so about the level I read at in 6th grade" or "like my 6th grade textbooks". No.Reading at a 6th grade level is closer to being able to get a C in 6th grade English class. Many middle school textbooks have passages at a high school reading level as well, since the idea is for kids to learn.Many newspaper articles are deliberately written at an 8th grade reading level, which is "good enough".
(DIR) Post #AdTfvTTcD8qtv8DVaK by JohnDA@social.vivaldi.net
2024-01-03T18:51:01Z
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@grammargirl Itās a concern in New Zealand, too. A 2018 news article reported research indicating that 40% of NZ adults were below a functional reading level.The OECD 2014ā2015 adult literacy and numeracy survey put NZ well above the OECD average (the US at about average), but there has been a comparative decline of NZ adult literacy and numeracy being picked up in international surveys since 2018.I also found a 2020 report on school-age student literacy, which stated it has declined in comparison with other countries noticeably since 2009.
(DIR) Post #AdTg5yC4rOdW5G1C88 by JustGrist@disabled.social
2024-01-03T18:52:55Z
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@grammargirl It explains a lot about how op-Edās are written in most news publications.
(DIR) Post #AdTgA9bCOjcmcAlPkG by CaptainFlab@libretooth.gr
2024-01-03T18:53:35Z
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@grammargirl Seeing how many people put the dollar sign *after* the number, Iām honestly not surprised. Disheartened, but not surprised.
(DIR) Post #AdTgDiSfEl6zbhTDcm by sidereal@kolektiva.social
2024-01-03T18:54:19Z
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@grammargirl I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone but I used to have a job where at the end of every shift we were supposed to write up a couple paragraphs about what happened on shift. My opinion of my fellow Americans literacy went way the fuck down.Like forget the finer points of grammar, spelling, and conventions, many of my coworkers simply had trouble writing down sentences they would have no trouble saying, like "Carl arrived at 7PM and left later at 9PM"
(DIR) Post #AdTgEQHWJYLFVsawMa by sidereal@kolektiva.social
2024-01-03T18:54:27Z
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@grammargirl And podcasts/talk radio
(DIR) Post #AdTh1TmA6ylGXXJqoy by GGMcBG@mstdn.plus
2024-01-03T19:03:18Z
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@grammargirl I'm a dummy. But I've been conscious witness to The Dumbening for decades. I hadn't realized just how far it had really spread. I _assumed_ it, but... š š š¢ And it's very difficult to argue against such proud ignorance. Especially in like-minded concentrations as we have so widely-spread now.
(DIR) Post #AdTiHDJnAU1m5L7Fmi by jawarajabbi@mastodon.online
2024-01-03T19:17:22Z
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@grammargirl This explains a lot.
(DIR) Post #AdTiN3lHc170BQlJtQ by c_merriweather@social.linux.pizza
2024-01-03T19:18:23Z
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@grammargirl Ugh, just ugh.<pounds head on wall>In 3rd grade, I was reading at a 6th grade level. I studied German, and can read and write it at the high school level. I took 2 semesters of Persian during the lockdown; I need to work more on it to be able to read it.No wonder US politics are a mess. Johnny can't read because his parents can't read.
(DIR) Post #AdTiWdmv2JMgWW60uW by BigMcLargeHuge@mstdn.social
2024-01-03T19:20:07Z
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@grammargirl well that explains Trump voters somewhat.
(DIR) Post #AdTj3JRhgmCyzPkg7c by Npars01@mstdn.social
2024-01-03T19:26:02Z
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@grammargirl #KochNetwork has spent a lot of money creating Republican voters and MAGA insurrectionistshttps://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/10/16/koch-network-says-it-wants-remake-public-education-that-means-destroying-it-says-author-new-book-billionaire-brothers/https://www.forbes.com/sites/petergreene/2023/01/27/dark-money-and-education-parent-grass-roots-groups/https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/08/11/koch-network-infiltration-public-schools-harms-students-teachers-and-our-democracy
(DIR) Post #AdTji0QXIzOfsPbs5A by itwasntme@mstdn.social
2024-01-03T19:33:24Z
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@grammargirl Increasingly clearer that fast literacy is a major issue. Considered reading/writing seems to be viewed by many as too difficult and an investment that reaps no immediate gain. If one is not communicating quickly, one will be left behind. Itās processed and delivered through the drive through window. Resigned in my general observation that the US veneer of sophistication is very thin presently. Guns, trickle down economics and party/celebrity politics have it on knees.
(DIR) Post #AdTkM6hVOo6muwfWfw by caten@mathstodon.xyz
2024-01-03T19:40:33Z
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@grammargirl I am a high school dropout with a PhD, so I have seen both sides of this picture. When I took the New York State GED exam at age 16, I had some college English courses under my belt and I was of the opinion that any 12 year old who spoke English could ace the exam. In the following years the difficulty of the test was reduced dramatically, so I must've been very wrong.
(DIR) Post #AdTly3mOo9AiofcRA8 by panamared27401@mstdn.social
2024-01-03T19:58:40Z
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@grammargirl Makes me wonder whether "different learning styles" shouldn't really be "reads on a second-grade level" in some cases.
(DIR) Post #AdTm9pxzzQChS2f0am by shansterable@c.im
2024-01-03T20:00:48Z
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@grammargirl As a professional copyeditor, I tried to get that across to the higher ups whose writing style was less about communication and more about showing they were highly educated and "experts" in their field. It was also demoralizing to dumb things down as part of my job.
(DIR) Post #AdTmjPO8HkHTRcqVxQ by mentallyalex@beige.party
2024-01-03T20:07:14Z
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@grammargirl with as many news aggregators on YouTube who do little more than read aloud the article title and then weigh in with their opinion - this doesn't surprise me.So many people are thrilled at not "being readers".
(DIR) Post #AdTmnxN9sH3q0GYiae by lacouvee@mastodon.online
2024-01-03T20:08:05Z
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@grammargirl and it's similar in Canada too. It's been that way for a long time. I remember the International Literacy Audit of the mid-1990s and the results were similar.
(DIR) Post #AdTmzA56xma8bYScS0 by Enema_Cowboy@dotnet.social
2024-01-03T20:10:07Z
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@grammargirl My hypothesis is that ignorance no longer carries a stigma, but is perceived as being a virtue by a significant portion of US residents.
(DIR) Post #AdTnO7J6PnyREvu8XI by liroso@universeodon.com
2024-01-03T20:14:33Z
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@grammargirl This is what Christofacists wanted all along.
(DIR) Post #AdToQiz5P4G2cvLiVc by jsonstein@masto.deoan.org
2024-01-03T20:26:18Z
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@grammargirl @lisamelton āback in the dayā, during the days of the draft, US Army training materials were generally written to a 5th grade reading level
(DIR) Post #AdToV5vE3zC2vQcxcG by blogdiva@mastodon.social
2024-01-03T20:27:05Z
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@grammargirl it explains why LLMs are great at faking knowledge but awful when you feed them questions that involve the creative work of deduction. the deeper you push them into creative analytic work, the faster they fall apart.
(DIR) Post #AdTojt0aMFLVDbBgmW by josiaphus@mastodon.social
2024-01-03T20:29:47Z
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@grammargirl Now they will change the standards so the the old "6th grade reading level" becomes the new "college reading level" and claim literacy rates have suddenly gone through the roof
(DIR) Post #AdTp34swQOJBYUlO52 by jann@twit.social
2024-01-03T20:33:14Z
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@grammargirl Cross check against residents of red states. I think you'll find a correlation. I know it's GOT to be true here in FL. Trust me!
(DIR) Post #AdTp3W0fZlX7gHaRNI by ecksearoh@infosec.exchange
2024-01-03T20:33:20Z
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@grammargirl I don't know what Twitter was for other people, but for me it was originally therapeutic for the same reasons that I play videogames. And a big part of learning to write for Twitter in the early days, meant getting complicated ideas across in as simple a word spurt as possible. Twitter still awards brevity and simplicity, so users trying to communicate major concepts use graphics or moving pictures. In the 90s I remember making some notes about city morlocks, illiterate human worker drones for whom a modern AR graphical language would be created, never requiring them to learn any traditional languages. Only the eloigarchs who owned everything would remain literate.
(DIR) Post #AdTqeK4N24SJJkQte4 by thejohnr@universeodon.com
2024-01-03T20:51:10Z
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@grammargirl Donald Trump speaks on a 4th grade level. This is why the poorly educated love him. They can understand him. Biden uses words they canāt understand. https://www.newsweek.com/trump-fire-and-fury-smart-genius-obama-774169
(DIR) Post #AdTsiQVbEXEYM4FmiG by ChuckMcManis@chaos.social
2024-01-03T21:14:21Z
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@grammargirl This kind of astonished me as well. Reading is so essential.
(DIR) Post #AdTsuA4UAm6sqnAPWS by jotaemei@social.coop
2024-01-03T21:16:26Z
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@grammargirl Hi Mignon. I understand what to read at a given grade level means technically but not functionally. Weāre all in the comments writing at that level, no?, and yet we all understand each other and manage to communicate as sufficiently as we wish for the topic, it seems.
(DIR) Post #AdTsyaIoaWNVMZyitk by failedLyndonLaRouchite@mas.to
2024-01-03T21:17:15Z
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@grammargirl The assumption that people with more education are better seems both arrogant and, afaik, not trueIn 1933, the most educated group of people in the world, the German Professoriat, had no trouble with the new Chancellor of Germany
(DIR) Post #AdTwS2JjoACqVh94tM by obscurestar@mastodon.social
2024-01-03T21:56:10Z
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@grammargirl And that's across the entire US.In the 90s I was an adult literacy volunteer in Tulsa, OK. 30% of the adult population had less than a 3rd grade reading level at the time.
(DIR) Post #AdTwzpQwDTmIOhcuTQ by CindyS@masto.nu
2024-01-03T22:02:13Z
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@grammargirl No doubt American's are significantly less capable, in pretty much every way, than their predecessors. Just read a newspaper from 1900 or earlier. The words and phrases (prose) that are used are MILES above any of the garbage we get today from corporate print media.
(DIR) Post #AdTxcR1WuBvVzA9QEy by Tempehlover@mstdn.social
2024-01-03T22:09:17Z
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@grammargirl this explains a lot and it is absolutely terrible.
(DIR) Post #AdTxtw10vrCb1lFpZY by ambulocetus@qoto.org
2024-01-03T22:12:26Z
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@grammargirl I didn't know it was that bad, but it explains a lot.
(DIR) Post #AdTyGRAplawS2BZs3M by DanadasGrau@mastodon.social
2024-01-03T22:16:29Z
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@grammargirl this is why Donnie speaks with a fourth grade reading level. He wants to be understood by his supporters.
(DIR) Post #AdTzeVJA9AA5lEVrrE by Nazani@universeodon.com
2024-01-03T22:32:04Z
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@grammargirl Look at a newspaper printed in India some time- and weep at the vocab they use that we don't.
(DIR) Post #AdTzxtkhUKOf4idpey by PadreWil@mastodon.sdf.org
2024-01-03T22:35:29Z
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@grammargirl It would seem this is true considering how many stupid people we have supporting a Rep. candidate that is total moron !!!
(DIR) Post #AdU09pCaEQnkRCN2Dg by ChrisHolladay@mastodon.social
2024-01-03T22:37:41Z
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@grammargirl Why do you think it was so easy for the GOP to gain power?Through reducing education.At first it was just cutting off college access with allowing massive tuition increases ,now it's literally reading and arithmetic being wiped off the curriculum.Too hard to read Too hard to think
(DIR) Post #AdU0RQy94G6EUe0vK4 by Cotopaxi@mstdn.social
2024-01-03T22:40:52Z
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@grammargirl I think it's time to read Fahrenheit 451 again and ponder the truth that reading nurtures independent thinking, and the many reasons why independent thought fosters democracy, empathy, and civilization.
(DIR) Post #AdU0skzSjlhMPHetYu by vruz@mastodon.social
2024-01-03T22:45:45Z
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@grammargirl So, essentially, the general international view that Americans don't read much outside of technical literature has always been statistically correct.
(DIR) Post #AdU0tJT4YBaNKxm1R2 by vfrmedia@social.tchncs.de
2024-01-03T22:45:55Z
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LB: for those outside USA, 6th grade is when kids are biological age 11-12 (this would be the final years of junior school here in England, known as Year 6 since the 1990s)@grammargirl
(DIR) Post #AdU0tZljwY1btUd9km by ErgonWolf@pawb.fun
2024-01-03T22:45:58Z
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@grammargirl It makes me wonder if the introduction of "whole word reading" and other offshoots of reading instruction ouside of basic phonics wasn't some kind of outside interference in our culture to destroy our literacy as a nation.I worked in a Title I Reading Lab in the early Nineties, and the introduction of the theory of "whole word reading" was something that felt new at that point, maybe? But it was widely fought against because words are sound symbols encoded on a page, and to learn to read you need to learn to decode those sound symbols. There is no intuition about reading, it's a pretty basic task.Anyway, yes, the destruction of literacy in the US is really disheartening.
(DIR) Post #AdU2X7GZR24722TAH2 by Brownian_motion@mastodon.scot
2024-01-03T23:04:20Z
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@grammargirl This is primarily due to the total US education system buy-in on the incorrect way to teach reading since the 1960's. Instead of phonics they went "whole-hog" (there's a whole podcast for you) into whole word. See https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/03/nyregion/new-york-schools-reading-hochul.html?unlocked_article_code=1.K00.M2_Y.rs1UGMWCW17G&smid=url-share and the excellent NPR podcast "Sold a story" https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/
(DIR) Post #AdU3GG8tHS2TalP3Oy by mrpinkly@mstdn.jp
2024-01-03T23:12:31Z
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@grammargirl Biennial testing through NAEP consistently shows that two thirds of U.S. children are unable to read with proficiency. An astounding 40 percent are essentially nonreaders.
(DIR) Post #AdU3oQLBryM94FRmcq by MelodyWainscott@zirk.us
2024-01-03T23:18:41Z
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@grammargirl My elder kid teaches at a major university and we just spoke about this, today. They have their students read out loud in class to assess where they are, in an empathetic and supportive environment, then meets them where they are. Reading aloud is part of this senior level university classā¦now. Iām fairly certain itās worse than we think given where they teach and the opportunities those students have already had to learn.
(DIR) Post #AdU7ksQtsiLyqsgLho by GhostOnTheHalfShell@masto.ai
2024-01-04T00:02:49Z
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@grammargirl makes my head ache.. because reading above that level isn't hard.
(DIR) Post #AdU8ImUSTyAgGcVs5A by hadilq@androiddev.social
2024-01-04T00:08:59Z
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@grammargirl meanwhile the article, the toot, and all the comments are written below that level, where everyone understands each other without problem.Everyone has bias towards their own skill sets, so I recommend to ask yourself why reading skills more than 6th grade is better?
(DIR) Post #AdUBDC7WZqLrsloVLE by BetaCuck4Lyfe@kolektiva.social
2024-01-04T00:41:32Z
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@grammargirl we are pretty woefully undereducated.
(DIR) Post #AdUEENPsMdWF4IeWci by nurahiyon_dyl@mastodon.social
2024-01-04T01:15:25Z
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@grammargirl I mean, the rise of popularity of the alt-right and gun violence might have been a giveaway.
(DIR) Post #AdUGKlPMHCTb7gaG9o by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T01:38:59Z
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@jotaemei Off the top of my head, I can't say what the grade level is of all the comments here. Plus, people who frequent a text-based platform like this probably tend to have higher literacy levels than the general public.
(DIR) Post #AdUGRhgwUa2Zck7NGS by MartyFouts@mastodon.online
2024-01-04T01:40:15Z
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@grammargirl Before people start blaming whatever technology they are currently mad at: āWhy Johnny Canāt Readā was published in 1955.
(DIR) Post #AdUGqIB6UJhVjbwyrQ by buttar@mastodon.social
2024-01-04T01:44:41Z
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@grammargirl please elaborate.
(DIR) Post #AdUGspm4Y5YiVjSDmS by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T01:45:09Z
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@failedLyndonLaRouchite I didn't say people with more education are better. Plus, literacy and education aren't the same thing. I'm sure lots of people with low literacy have graduated from high school, for example, but their schools failed them by not teaching them to read well.And I don't think it's controversial to say that society functions better when people have an easier time understanding information, which is what reading allows.
(DIR) Post #AdUGzmXmxRE4WF5Or2 by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T01:46:24Z
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@obscurestar Interesting. I imagined that it would vary by location.If you have time, what does an adult literacy volunteer do? What helps the most?
(DIR) Post #AdUH50YMIcCHPpqQj2 by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T01:47:20Z
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@breitensteinart @lisamelton Thank you! I'm reading people's comments in chronological order, and I've been wondering about how to help.
(DIR) Post #AdUHaoYuPwMhUbGiMi by Deus@charcha.cc
2024-01-03T22:57:31.844814Z
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@grammargirl India's adult literacy rate stands at 81% and the Youth at 91% but YT is super-popular as a source of information...and growing. Could it have to do instead with accessibility to the internet and devices coupled with less attentions spans?
(DIR) Post #AdUHapOJKpTw41JlU8 by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T01:53:02Z
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@Deus That's interesting! I have no idea. It just seems intuitive that if people have trouble reading and want information, they would turn to video. But it makes sense that there are other reasons video is popular too.
(DIR) Post #AdUHe3kYPE6vSvGLvE by CStamp@mastodon.social
2024-01-04T01:53:39Z
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@grammargirl I've been following a young Black man who committed to reading 100 books last year to teach himself how to read. He's had struggles and sees being literate as a way forward. https://www.instagram.com/oliverspeaks1/?hl=en
(DIR) Post #AdUHhQ75iPjDh3PHvc by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T01:54:18Z
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@Brownian_motion @NPR Thanks! I'll check it out. I'm only vaguely familiar with the "whole word" way of teaching. I've heard of it, but I don't know the details.
(DIR) Post #AdUHzkVqbsWSAnj6ES by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T01:57:36Z
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@MelodyWainscott It actually wouldn't surprise me much if people could get a college degree and still have low literacy.
(DIR) Post #AdUIDhn7WbJ5mrSbkO by Brownian_motion@mastodon.scot
2024-01-04T02:00:07Z
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@grammargirl @NPR my mistake, think it's whole language.
(DIR) Post #AdUIzcMwzGgos349w0 by jimmygnarly@mastodon.online
2024-01-04T02:08:47Z
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@grammargirl #florida overrun by foreign ' owners.. GOP dgaf.. all corrupt for pvtin n co. meanwhile: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTtRhqlZM5k
(DIR) Post #AdUJ66m0rFbAuBsqoK by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T02:09:58Z
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@hadilq I would be surprised if all the comments here are written at a 6th grade reading level or lower. Reading at a higher grade level means you can understand sentences that are more complicated, which will give you the ability to understand more information. I believe that is a good thing.
(DIR) Post #AdUJL1kZof4JfbKGUi by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T02:12:39Z
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@CStamp I think I've seen some of his posts!
(DIR) Post #AdUJUzxjJmnL1MEUnQ by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T02:14:28Z
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@buttar It just seems intuitive to me that if people have trouble reading and want information, they would turn to video.
(DIR) Post #AdUJcKIg6JJI7nWdTk by CStamp@mastodon.social
2024-01-04T02:15:44Z
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@grammargirl He's really wonderful with his honesty and learning. Hearing him sound out words is the best. And today I saw him go into a library to ask for help reading a document that was sent to him, which was too advanced for him to read. I hope he inspires a lot of young people.It's too bad the education system is failing so many.
(DIR) Post #AdUJe48p9NbEaVkI76 by buttar@mastodon.social
2024-01-04T02:16:07Z
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@grammargirl so that (YT popularity) pretty much proves it then, right?
(DIR) Post #AdUJntUra65OTDjzW4 by buttar@mastodon.social
2024-01-04T02:17:52Z
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@grammargirl gave me a new perspective, too (about my country)
(DIR) Post #AdUMTd6j6eb9i7ToYq by hadilq@androiddev.social
2024-01-04T02:47:49Z
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@grammargirl my bad to make a statement with "all"! You are right.But, you can learn more information by breaking them down into small pieces. It's more effective, and also, splitting information is a problem solving method that we use all over science. In fact, sentences with high complexity are even worse in transferring information.
(DIR) Post #AdUNFOlti5uD9GW0K8 by macnchez@mastodon.social
2024-01-04T02:56:23Z
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@grammargirl this explains a whole freaking lot. Unfortunately the Republican are succeeding in their long term goal of making America stupid, poor, and sick.
(DIR) Post #AdUO2xWvGeql8i8w7c by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T03:05:24Z
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@hadilq Yes! I encourage writers to keep things simple and write to lower grade levels. That's the best way to communicate information to as many people as possible. (I'm working on a plain language course right now!)But it is also good for people to have strong reading skills and to be able to read complicated things because not everything they may need or want to know will be written in a simple way.
(DIR) Post #AdUR7WOFtrBQHFxLRg by SocialDem1941@mstdn.party
2024-01-04T03:39:51Z
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@grammargirl No wonder weāre truly fucked!
(DIR) Post #AdURNiZIOEZcgEqL2m by Bam@sfba.social
2024-01-04T03:42:41Z
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@grammargirl @gabemg Above the curve! Whoo-hoo!
(DIR) Post #AdUSWr3aIb99ZEvnW4 by KawaTora@kolektiva.social
2024-01-04T03:55:36Z
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@grammargirl I can verify that my mother and many of her siblings, all 14 of them, (boomers and mostly Trumpers) had maybe 4 of them that could read at an adult level. My mother reads at a 2nd grade level and she is 73.
(DIR) Post #AdUSnaRtIfkyyvHLsG by ericwelch@mas.to
2024-01-04T03:58:34Z
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@grammargirl @lisamelton Haha. I was reading at that level in the second grade!
(DIR) Post #AdUVXaxXvxlHnJ9SXA by MelodyWainscott@zirk.us
2024-01-04T04:29:23Z
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@grammargirl Kid says the conversation among their peers includes asking whether college is college.
(DIR) Post #AdUaeNZYbVuY4bz8Uq by DanadasGrau@mastodon.social
2024-01-04T00:47:28Z
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@fulanigirl @grammargirl if I were going to quote statistics like that, I donāt think I would admit to being a teacher. Just kidding, students have to want to learn too.
(DIR) Post #AdUaeW52yJqySamOgq by Jonny@annihilation.social
2024-01-04T05:26:41.423597Z
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@DanadasGrau @fulanigirl @grammargirl Would you concur that everyone can pass the bar without going too college?
(DIR) Post #AdUcM7nkhYj5r932p6 by obscurestar@mastodon.social
2024-01-04T05:45:44Z
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@grammargirl Pretty much exactly what it sounds like. 'Literacy Volunteers of America' is the group. I can say the training was good and I think helped me be a better person. A lot of the training is just about not accidentally shaming a student. eg: If you're using a teaching method like phonetics and the student has always heard a word like fire pronounced as 'far' or chimney as 'chimilly' how you can handle that without making them feel shamed. Very good program and great people.
(DIR) Post #AdUcVftvI1Q0DiUKdE by obscurestar@mastodon.social
2024-01-04T05:47:27Z
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@grammargirl And what helps the most is going to vary depending on student. Some of the other examples in the training program are that there are different kinds of learners. Some by hearing, some by visual examples, sometimes kinetic learners who just can't hold still while listening and thus were treated poorly by the childhood education system. There's not a hard and fast, I'm afraid.
(DIR) Post #AdUhTqLA0NelmyArfE by Osteopenia_Powers@newsie.social
2024-01-04T06:43:09Z
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@grammargirl Gee, another educational panic article. If you live in the US, you are probably familiar with US adults. To be fair, you might not be acquainted with reading tests.If you read the actual article cited, you will see that the authors have serious reservations about the conclusion in the headline.As someone who has spent many years in the trenches, I am going to guess that two of the key factors in this situation are vocabulary and the special, formal grammar of texts.
(DIR) Post #AdUujkX8f3adohgy4u by joshbuddy@sfba.social
2024-01-04T09:11:41Z
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@grammargirl I keep thinking about this idea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-literate_societyMakes me sad.
(DIR) Post #AdUza7I9gu47H8uSkC by Lassielmr@mastodon.scot
2024-01-04T10:06:00Z
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@grammargirl the USA is ranked 16th globally when measured against the criteria for a well-developed public education system. I recall years ago a US student joining our Univerity course from a reputable American university. He was supposedly one of the brightest. He was like a fish out of water and would have struggled in a 10th grade class at our schools.
(DIR) Post #AdVTXhJ0Kkk8j54Mfg by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T15:41:43Z
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@joshbuddy When I first read "Super Sad True Love Story," I hated it, but I have thought of it countless times since then. It stayed with me and feels ever more relevant.
(DIR) Post #AdVTn6D01iNsJ0bYOm by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T15:44:29Z
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@obscurestar Thanks! That's super helpful.
(DIR) Post #AdVUZvaOJIgZY7pTc0 by morecowbell@mastodon.social
2024-01-04T15:53:18Z
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@grammargirl Half of all adult Americans have a double digit IQ.
(DIR) Post #AdVUczop1t7jXu2gU4 by maco@wandering.shop
2024-01-04T15:53:49Z
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@grammargirl I want to point out that the stat is for "reads _in English_" because we have all met the immigrant cab drivers who did doctorates in their home countries but couldn't transfer their credentials. Those people surely read well above that level in their _first_ language.
(DIR) Post #AdVY0sG15sNauIq8OH by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T16:31:46Z
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@maco Good point!
(DIR) Post #AdVZiVQlQLHGo7Egs4 by maco@wandering.shop
2024-01-04T16:50:50Z
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@grammargirl lots of the replies here seem to include 2 logical leaps:1. that people have *chosen* not to be able to read (perhaps even forgotten how as adults?)2. that the literacy rate is decliningNumber 1 ignores that for nearly a century the US preferred a failed teaching method; if your teachers don't teach, you don't learn. https://www.apmreports.org/episode/2019/08/22/whats-wrong-how-schools-teach-readingNumber 2 simply isn't addressed in the link. Could my grandma, who never went to high school, read well? I never saw her read a book.
(DIR) Post #AdVc7YT5T2ybNMOWxs by maco@wandering.shop
2024-01-04T17:17:41Z
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@grammargirl @jotaemei We could check! I put the text of MJ's message into https://readabilityformulas.com/readability-scoring-system.php and chose the Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level formula.The result says:Score = (0.39 * ( 46 words / 2 sentences)) + (11.8 * (70 syllables / 46 words)) - 15.59Final result: 11.34That means it's written at an 11th grade reading level and is rated "fairly difficult."Given how syllable counts factor in, "technically," "funcitonally," "communicate," and "sufficiently" probably did a lot.
(DIR) Post #AdVfHv2ogT8O9YjxpY by maco@wandering.shop
2024-01-04T17:53:17Z
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@grammargirl @hadilq which means high literacy can sort of *make up for* bad writing skills. I'm thinking of what Mark Twain said about "I'm writing a long letter because I don't have time to write a short one."
(DIR) Post #AdVfc1zOZaLLU3jL7o by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T17:56:52Z
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@maco Now you've made me wonder if creating text at a Flesch-Kinkaid grade level and assessing reading at a grade level are the same thing. I know word, sentence, and paragraph length all factor into writing at a specific grade level. I wonder if that is the same way they're assessing people's ability to read at a specific grade level. Do you know? I suspect the assessments aren't done on text that contains the same information just chopped up into shorter sentences and paragraphs, for example.
(DIR) Post #AdVg636qyL5Be6X4ca by jotaemei@social.coop
2024-01-04T17:29:05Z
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@maco Thatās very discouraging. Iāve just assumed that I write at a very basic level, and that most anyone - relatively half way through puberty and fluent in English - could understand me. @grammargirl
(DIR) Post #AdVg63t455eC3d5Zlg by jotaemei@social.coop
2024-01-04T17:56:34Z
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@maco This is funny. I ran the same test on the original post from @grammargirl, and the results wereScore: 4.91 [ = grade level ]Reading Difficulty: Fairly EasyGrade Level: Fifth GradeAge Range: 10-11
(DIR) Post #AdVg64fdAWUmUFoMT2 by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T18:02:19Z
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@jotaemei @maco I usually aim to write in a simple way because I want my posts to be easy to understand. I'm all in favor of simple writing. In fact, I'm especially excited about my next course for LinkedIn, which is a plain language course.
(DIR) Post #AdVg6yiOnPz4J3XMYa by maco@wandering.shop
2024-01-04T18:02:26Z
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@grammargirl I don't know. I do find that those run-on sentences with a million commas from a century ago tire me out when reading. I can't stand Tolkien. So, I do think even just not being afraid to use periods does make things easier to read.I know when reading is tested in a foreign language on the ACTFL, they assess reading comprehension on texts that are pegged to certain levels to see at what point you go from "got it" to "nope."
(DIR) Post #AdVgBOQp7mjPDtQCCe by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T18:03:19Z
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@maco Thanks!
(DIR) Post #AdVhCoEilhNNV003Em by maco@wandering.shop
2024-01-04T18:12:41Z
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@grammargirl Flesch-Kincaid doesn't care about paragraph length, by the way. It's strictly syllables and sentence length.
(DIR) Post #AdVhCp5tZzuW9usW7U by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T18:14:46Z
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@maco Ah, thanks!
(DIR) Post #AdVlmkZIHdoyMd13Ls by joshbuddy@sfba.social
2024-01-04T19:01:28Z
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@grammargirl I'm curious, why did you hate that book? I saw a lot of that book was a critique on modern internet culture, and I keep thinking about those parts too
(DIR) Post #AdVn2uX36dQxqzEge8 by ciggysmokebringer@kolektiva.social
2024-01-04T19:18:57Z
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@grammargirl @failedLyndonLaRouchite To a large degree, that's the potential promise and why poindexters beat the drum so often about it. However, because this is a larger social policy idea than something any of them would do in place, it must run through The State, is subject to the vagaries of Electoral Politics, and wouldn't manifest larger social cohesion and societal attachment outcomes until way later, maybe.This is all to say, what else could be done while waiting for The State to do the ideal thing it won't?
(DIR) Post #AdVoydmHejEkdoSASm by 3dogcouch@mas.to
2024-01-04T19:38:48Z
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@grammargirl I believe this has consequences far beyond susceptibility to misinformation & difficulty in publishing.Where does all that frustration go in the schools & then beyond? Who does it get directed toward? Example:There is a lot of anger toward teachers, particularly women, & especially women who tell boys what to do. It pisses them off when they find school tasks hard. Round & round it goes, flowing out from there. Republicans tap & direct (& arm) those types of rage in all their forms.
(DIR) Post #AdVthuMRFLaEv9Cm6y by Neferure@eldritch.cafe
2024-01-04T20:03:27Z
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@Lmardell @mittensmcsmithers @grammargirl The average reading age of adults in the UK is about 9 years old, so we have very little to boast about. The reading age is even lower in prisons (50% functionally illiterate) and The Sun newspaper (8yo). A reading age of 11 is what is judged to be functionally literate.When writing leaflets, it is ideal to level your writing at about a 10 year old's level. Otherwise, most people won't be able to read it.My dad was a chaplain in a prison. He used to re-write everything so that the men could understand it and he chose hymns that were repetitive so that those who could not read at all (about 25%) could join in. There is a lot to be said for spending money on improving literacy and numeracy levels nationally, but especially in the criminal justice system.
(DIR) Post #AdVthvaIhIGYiQhMMC by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T20:31:56Z
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@Neferure @Lmardell @mittensmcsmithers That was very kind and wise of your father.
(DIR) Post #AdVuGhxvKADgc2KfVQ by Neferure@eldritch.cafe
2024-01-04T20:39:06Z
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@grammargirl @Lmardell @mittensmcsmithers He used to be a teacher before he was a chaplain, so fortunately differentiation is in his skill set. He was still working there at 72 until ill health made him stop. He is a very intelligent, kind man and said he found the literacy levels to be a huge barrier to the prisoners avoiding recidivism.
(DIR) Post #AdVuofbkb1pd989hKa by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T20:44:44Z
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@joshbuddy It was ~14 years ago, and I didn't write a review, but if I remember correctly, I found all the characters unlikeable to the point where I didn't care about them, and I found the scenarios ridiculous to the extreme. Today, they seem far less implausible. It seems prophetic. I truly think about it all the time.
(DIR) Post #AdVvPyIa4DqFpTyY4m by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T20:49:34Z
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@ciggysmokebringer It sounds like there are pretty large volunteer programs.
(DIR) Post #AdVvQtlcOvwC4302ka by joshbuddy@sfba.social
2024-01-04T20:52:19Z
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@grammargirl haha yes, i was just describing this book to a friend and thinking the same thingall the of characters were pretty narcissistic and unlikable. but it seems to have perfect skewered and foresaw the cultural forces at work today. the author understood something about how the internet was impacting our lives in a way the rest of us missedi guess reading it involves getting over the hump of how awful the characters are. kind of want to re-read it now. too bad i can't just watch it in movie form š
(DIR) Post #AdVvVgI7vloriaUBW4 by joshbuddy@sfba.social
2024-01-04T20:55:02Z
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@grammargirl sorry, and one other thing, tangentially related.the number of people i run into today who casually drop they don't read books, and they don't see any problem with that. i think this comes up more with my american friends but it makes me wistful. sort of like when you meet someone without a sense of taste and you wonder how they experience food. reading adds such a layer to thought and experience, i find it challenging to imagine how that feels
(DIR) Post #AdVw8qgXDm1DFOZxeS by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-04T21:00:45Z
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@joshbuddy Yesterday, I talked to a family member who said about another family member, "I don't think he's read a book in 10 years," and my brain went "Oooooh. Sick burn!" But I don't think he actually meant it that way at all.
(DIR) Post #AdVwlcX5lysceGeMgy by joshbuddy@sfba.social
2024-01-04T21:04:48Z
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@grammargirl exactly. you've captured it, there is no stigma to it. i don't want to come off as some reading snob, i've very lucky i was raised in a family that valued reading so much. i guess i just want others to experience books. books let you imagine other places and ways of living, it makes you dream of other possibilities. and books are fantastic escapism
(DIR) Post #AdWHa1T7KmGtY36NTU by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-05T01:02:21Z
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@Lmardell Thanks for the book recommendation. I added it to a list for my dad because it sounds right up his alley.
(DIR) Post #AdWIYtkIf6SdGEAODg by steter@mastodon.stevesworld.co
2024-01-05T01:13:19Z
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@grammargirl And from these come our police, our pickpockets, our foot soldiers, and our middle managers eager to prove they're smarter than everyone else by fudging numbers.
(DIR) Post #AdWLqedLt2D7Sz4in2 by ignova@mstdn.ca
2024-01-05T01:50:12Z
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@grammargirl i'm not sure how they convert PIAAC literacy score into 'grade level,' as the PIAAC reports cited in the articles measure literacy in levels ranging from 1 to 5. they don't use the same metrics as Flecsh-Kincaid calculators, which can sometimes spew out absurd results. (i put Mrs. Dalloway through the calculator and that notoriously difficult book came out at a grade level of 5.8!)following the sources, the 54% figure comes from the combination of scores at PIAAC levels 1 and 2.
(DIR) Post #AdWO2JgLoHHJryANhg by Magooish@mas.to
2024-01-05T02:14:42Z
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@grammargirl this is not a new problem, just a larger one than before.My high school English teacher in the 1970ās was a college professor of creative writing. He was getting such bad material from students that he quit the college gig and purposefully went back to teach high school to help turn that tide.I am thankful to have been one of his students. He was demanding, challenged us to think in the abstract and taught us Shakespeare. He made us work for our grades. Never an easy A.
(DIR) Post #AdWUlqeIgaEys3Im1Y by ignova@mstdn.ca
2024-01-05T02:01:46Z
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@grammargirl here's a table that i found from a Canadian source, which explains the PIAAC reading levels. levels 1 and 2 are very basic. note that critical reading is worked into the scoring system, as in the ability to sort through competing (accurate vs. inaccurate) pieces of information.(sorry for the tiny print)source: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/en/pub/89-555-x/89-555-x2013001-eng.pdf?st=v6WxAi1Q
(DIR) Post #AdWUlrXbMyTbdZAwDo by grammargirl@zirk.us
2024-01-05T03:30:07Z
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@ignova Thank you! I'm going to save that; it's super helpful and interesting. It makes me think of the SAT reading comprehension section, and is definitely different from the Fleisch-Kinkade scoring (which I know can be misleading at times, like with the Mrs. Dalloway score).
(DIR) Post #AdWdBC1HAPNc1Ve1tQ by katintheboots@mastodon.social
2024-01-05T05:04:22Z
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@grammargirl Yep. My coworkers are always shocked when I explain that we need to simplify some public content because of this.
(DIR) Post #AdaEAXATKdkD6PNItE by MugsysRapSheet@mastodon.social
2024-01-06T22:42:56Z
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@grammargirl ...and one of them is #MangoMussolini (I wrote this 4 years ago next Thursday.) https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/11/1824456/-Serious-question-Is-Trump-Functionally-Illiterate