Post AdPtQ4kuh826zyOGOG by zackbatist@archaeo.social
(DIR) More posts by zackbatist@archaeo.social
(DIR) Post #AdPhUKaUZi6voCmKcy by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T20:48:02Z
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If someone wants to start a blog, and they'd like the content they publish to stick around on the internet for as long as possible into the future, what are their best options?Buying a domain is tricky because domain names expireGitHub Pages is pretty great, because GitHub is free and has, to-date, a great track record of not breaking *.github.io contentWhat are other great options? WordPress.com I think are good on this frontI don't trust anyone with less than 10 years of track record
(DIR) Post #AdPhh90UwUh5en3JOi by aronambrosiani@glammr.us
2024-01-01T20:50:11Z
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@simon whatever method is chosen, also make a habit of requesting crawls by @internetarchive – adds a second layer of storage
(DIR) Post #AdPht83MJZSaAp6aVk by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T20:50:13Z
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I don't trust Medium because they added a paywall / registration wall to content that had previously been publishedSubstack are too young to have proven themselves as long-term trustworthy stewards of contentI used to trust Twitter for long-term content availability, but then they got bought by someone who clearly doesn't care about that at all (and threads are now hidden behind registration walls)
(DIR) Post #AdPi5FDFWObPqyVagy by Dtl@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T20:50:39Z
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@simon blogger has been around forever.Dreamwidth?
(DIR) Post #AdPiGNjiAgYTTT0G5Q by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T20:50:44Z
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@aronambrosiani @internetarchive Yeah, absolutely - Internet Archive is a fantastic backup strategy for this kind of thing, but it doesn't help keep links working sadly
(DIR) Post #AdPiRdxgBcT2yuuGlU by alex@social.moreati.org.uk
2024-01-01T20:51:27Z
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@simon maybe any of those, plus proactively syncing to archive.org?
(DIR) Post #AdPiduvsukCl5iv57Y by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T20:51:35Z
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@Dtl Blogger has been around forever, but Google's track record of keeping things running (even things that have been around forever) is still bad enough that I don't trust it - especially since they seem to have lost interest in further developing Blogger over a decade ago
(DIR) Post #AdPitd8IrQs8WIDkhc by ollien@discuss.systems
2024-01-01T20:53:29Z
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@simon I would say Tumblr but who knows how long they're gonna be around. I'm _personally_ using Render, but they're pretty green
(DIR) Post #AdPj6unuTIAL5f16Jc by christof@fedihum.org
2024-01-01T20:54:07Z
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@simon hypotheses.org
(DIR) Post #AdPjJLaQiiUvd7diqW by zrail@hachyderm.io
2024-01-01T20:54:17Z
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@simon an S3 bucket
(DIR) Post #AdPjUhue3KyM3gVo5w by reconbot@toot.cafe
2024-01-01T20:54:34Z
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@simon I'll argue that an auto renewing domain name isn't that tricky. I've had my blog for 20+ years by.. accident? +1 to wordpress
(DIR) Post #AdPjgAvGXCvtDVGqH2 by film_girl@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T20:54:30Z
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@simon honestly, WordPress.com I think is the winner here. Handles buying a domain and I think we can reasonably count on to last a long ass time.
(DIR) Post #AdPjsR0sXJ08azk3XM by allafarce@hachyderm.io
2024-01-01T20:55:06Z
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@simon I see this question every so often and not to get all philosophical, but I do think it's more complicated than reputation or past record.A big implicit question here is "what do I want to control vs. what do I want to let someone else control"And the truth is that the answer there determines a lot! The more you outsource, the odds go up of breaking. The more you own, the higher friction to get going and also different breaking modes.
(DIR) Post #AdPjsUFAWdDMcBS0jA by allafarce@hachyderm.io
2024-01-01T20:56:13Z
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@simon I'm not sure there is a general purpose answer that's particularly useful without better defining the "someone"!
(DIR) Post #AdPkJrXc0vIMgo8CZs by timbray@cosocial.ca
2024-01-01T20:55:13Z
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@simon I'm still at "buy a domain". It's pretty cheap, and all the respectable registrars will remind you when it's expiring, so hard to lose by accident.
(DIR) Post #AdPkYTHIVQZfmZSxvs by lavaeolus@fedihum.org
2024-01-01T20:57:03Z
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@simon imho: You would need long lasting infrastructure, provided by trustworthy institutions, that host Wordpress.One example would by hcommons.org:https://support.hcommons.org/guides/sites/creating-a-site-or-blog/Another one is hypotheses:https://hypotheses.org/
(DIR) Post #AdPlDXbXKDYJ4cW4x6 by olikami@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T20:57:46Z
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@simon I guess if that is the criteria then the Wordpress-staxs-for-100-years plan is made for this: https://wordpress.com/100-year/
(DIR) Post #AdPlRdjvJLZo9jA7Mm by javier@col.social
2024-01-01T20:58:39Z
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@simon GitHub pages are my preferred option. But it takes some effort to configure it properly if you want a custom look.
(DIR) Post #AdPldKFra5JVCRfqfQ by mwichary@mastodon.online
2024-01-01T20:58:55Z
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@simon I believe Medium added a paywall only for those authors who opted in? (Although Medium is hard to trust for a bunch of other reasons, too.)
(DIR) Post #AdPlnsFo1nrZXeg2NM by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T20:59:19Z
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@timbray I wish I could find a registrar that would call me or even send a courier to my house if I'm about to expire, because I really can't guarantee I'll spot their emails in the terrifying swamp that is my inbox
(DIR) Post #AdPlzMjX2whPG23pYm by StuartGray@mastodonapp.uk
2024-01-01T20:59:26Z
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@simon Also, Wordpress offer a 100-year plan;https://wordpress.com/blog/2023/08/25/introducing-the-100-year-plan/Curious to see the replies - it feels like something that either falls into or has a strong overlap with digital & online legacy planning, which is generally woefully underserved right now.
(DIR) Post #AdPmAB62eWo6LrkGfI by olikami@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T20:58:50Z
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@simon Ah and potentially IPFS could work, but you still need a domain somehow.
(DIR) Post #AdPmLsc1CcASUzHXf6 by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T21:00:51Z
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I have a hunch that domain names eventually expiring is one of the top causes for blog content to become unavailable in the long (10+ year) term, but I don't have any actual data to back that up, just an intuition - partly based on how many of the things I've linked to from my own blog in the 2000s no longer exist
(DIR) Post #AdPmYBhk2l6hBgpO0u by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T21:01:34Z
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@mwichary I just can't figure that out - I'm pretty sure they added a free-but-you-need-an-account wall to a bunch of other stuff on there, but maybe I'm wrong about that?
(DIR) Post #AdPmkf48hlKHj0FgkC by stefan@gardenstate.social
2024-01-01T20:59:02Z
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@reconbot @simon my bog content has lasted for almost 20 years because of a domain name and consistent path names to content even as I switched platforms and migrated content from wordpress to other static site generators.
(DIR) Post #AdPmkhAEu3OUEV7aWu by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T21:02:27Z
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@stefan @reconbot Mine too, but that's because I very actively care about and keep an eye on itI'm interested in helping people who might blog for a few months and then lose interest
(DIR) Post #AdPmwTV3X3nZKSTWKG by steve@deliverabilit.ie
2024-01-01T21:02:57Z
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@simon if you’re ruling out owning a domain because it requires a payment every ten years (which isn’t unreasonable, but is a high threshold) then you’re also going to have issues with any “hosting” company. Do I trust Microsoft to offer free web hosting for “idle” users who never log in for decades? Large providers are already terminating email addresses that haven’t been used for a year. So … no.Dedicated archive sites? Perhaps. A legal trust to maintain hosting?
(DIR) Post #AdPmwVTiB1uZSrrTVY by steve@deliverabilit.ie
2024-01-01T21:18:19Z
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@simon OTOH my 20yo LiveJornal content was still there the last time I checked. And you can still find my 35yo content in Usenet archives, even though Google killed the main one.I don’t think you can predict the behaviour of any tech organization 20 years ahead reliably enough to be useful, unless the org is structured and funded to make it easier to do that.
(DIR) Post #AdPnMQXVA6nJfyzh1U by jcf@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T21:05:22Z
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@simon form a foundation with a reputable legal custodian. Institutions like the Catholic Church would have expertise in this area.Forming a supporting religion may be worthwhile.
(DIR) Post #AdPnZMW9QUFSy2WwGO by mfowler@toot.thoughtworks.com
2024-01-01T21:04:41Z
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@timbray @simon I'll add a strong +1 to Tim. To really control your long-term material, you need a domain you control. Then you have the maximum flexibility on what tech to use on it.
(DIR) Post #AdPnZNmqhtCQu7Lmvg by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T21:06:17Z
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@mfowler @timbray That's great advice for people who know they're going to continue actively caring about their blog for the long-term, but I'm hoping to find a safe default for people who might get inspired, blog for a few months / few years, then lose interest - but still want the content they write to stay online effectively foreverMy hunch is that expired domains are an extremely common reason for personal content to blink out of existence
(DIR) Post #AdPnmG82UWJ6uvOykS by serapath@mastodon.gamedev.place
2024-01-01T21:06:32Z
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@simon opennsource and self hosting is the only way.peer to peer systems exist and this can all be built on top of that....as a community, we just have to start
(DIR) Post #AdPo0EVNKBXHw4yqLw by ericmann@tekton.network
2024-01-01T21:06:53Z
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@simon it's expensive. But the 100 year plan from WordPress.com might be what you're after ..https://wordpress.com/100-year/
(DIR) Post #AdPoCZ3qiv4FAEzA9o by mia@hcommons.social
2024-01-01T21:07:23Z
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@simon you could also look at national or other web archives in addition to the Internet Archive. You can save warc files and post them somewhere if everything else fails. Folk on the #DigiPres hashtag will have more informed ideas
(DIR) Post #AdPoPrlyStyAxhy2Km by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T21:07:45Z
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@jcf Personally I'm actually really interested in that idea - I'd love to join a co-operative of people who want their content to exist effectively forever, and invest money in a pool that then keeps their domains renewed, keeps their static hosting paid for etcI'd very much like someone else to actually solve the bureaucracy of setting that up though!
(DIR) Post #AdPoPzxG2pkUL1JA24 by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T21:08:20Z
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@jcf Basically I want the co-op / non-profit foundation equivalent of the Automattic 100 year hosting plan https://wordpress.com/100-year/
(DIR) Post #AdPonnUE3LXUcP4ohU by kkuchta@ruby.social
2024-01-01T21:09:16Z
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@simon. Based on my experience having a blog for a little over 10 years: I’d go with a static site generator like Jekyll, and assume you’ll have to move hosts once or twice. It’s pretty easy to move from one host to another when all you’re doing is hosting flat files. I’ve moved from dreamhost to S3 to Netlify over the years.You do still need to buy and host dns for a domain name, though, for sure. I’d use a big name like AWS’s route53 for that.
(DIR) Post #AdPp0W4I7obWMS0kJk by xek@hachyderm.io
2024-01-01T21:09:19Z
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@simon Yes, the largest problem with Substack is their relative newness. That lack of a reliable, long-term track record is why Choosy Nazis Choose Stormfront™ to host their screeds.
(DIR) Post #AdPpCFxjpbvXswXnAu by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T21:10:11Z
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@ollien Tumblr are probably a pretty safe option, since they're now part of the WordPress family of companies and WordPress have an organizational culture that values longevity
(DIR) Post #AdPpO5CHgO69yJzG76 by macmanx@social.vivaldi.net
2024-01-01T21:10:36Z
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@simon WordPress.com is a great option! But also, consider frequently saving your blog to https://web.archive.org (along with a donation, if you can).
(DIR) Post #AdPpb403RfdI1VSMJU by BobGradeck@mastodon.publicinterest.town
2024-01-01T21:10:59Z
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@simon don’t have an answer but would recommend talking with someone working in the realm of digital preservation - often they can be found in academic libraries - our librarians at my university helped me think about backups, platforms, etc as part of a larger records management / digital preservation strategy. There are a few links here that might help. https://www.personalarchiving.digital/personal-digital-archiving
(DIR) Post #AdPpodUcnInFrrE9Ds by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T21:11:41Z
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@zrail I don't trust S3 not to delete content if you stop paying them (even 1c/month still needs an active credit card)
(DIR) Post #AdPq2ak7oc9zOQ8EyW by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T21:12:46Z
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@allafarce My "someone" here is someone who wants to have a go at blogging, and who cares about the longevity of their content but doesn't necessarily want to commit to the responsibility of keeping their own domain name / paid hosting plan maintained for the rest of their life (and beyond)
(DIR) Post #AdPqf8BLwCRS6gFDai by evan@cosocial.ca
2024-01-01T21:04:49Z
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@timbray @simon one trick I'd like to try but haven't yet pulled off is using archive.org's free S3 clone for hosting static content.https://archive.org/developers/ias3.html
(DIR) Post #AdPqf8wV6u9iSuIs52 by philippe@tchafia.be
2024-01-01T21:10:34Z
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@evan @timbray @simon would it work to host wherever you want then rely on archive.org for, well, the long term archive part? Another option would be distributed filesystems like ipfs and ask friends to relay as much as possible.
(DIR) Post #AdPqf9lC4Qhn081M5w by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T21:13:50Z
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@philippe @evan @timbray Archive.org is really useful, but the one thing it doesn't (yet) help with is keeping URLs working - and my personal ideal of blogging is all about linking to things and being linked to
(DIR) Post #AdPqrPvPnOSabueFXc by rf@mas.to
2024-01-01T21:13:33Z
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@timbray @simon It looks like you can prepay at registrars and at AWS which seems like it would extend the hands-off lifetime a lot.This does make me think that something a little more systematic than the Wayback Machine for keeping personal content around long term would be cool. Either from a stable nonprofit or just someone explicitly selling the service of keeping your stuff up long term barring e.g. legal issues (vs. free stuff usually being continued only as long as the company wants)
(DIR) Post #AdPqrVfKS79qPlAUIi by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T21:16:34Z
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@rf @timbray Yeah, I would jump at the chance to spend a few hundred dollars up-front on renewing my domain for a couple of decades, plus something similar for reliable static hosting from a company that I *really* trust not to change or break anythingWordPress 100 year plan is great, but I don't need WordPress, just static file hosting - and $38,000 for 100 years of static hosting and domain renewal is a little bit too much for me!
(DIR) Post #AdPrGcUsBsw6qDFcfY by econoprof@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T21:15:55Z
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@simon IMHO Buy your own domain name if one you want is available. Port it to a reputable registrar if it’s not there when you buy it. Set it up with autorenew but set a calendar item to renew in advance anyway and check on it every year. Use whatever hosting platform you want but keep in mind that “free” isn’t. GitHub is amazing but it is owned by Microsoft—a major corporation whose first responsibility is to its shareholders.Which WordPress? https://www.wpbeginner.com/beginners-guide/who-owns-wordpress-and-how-does-wordpress-make-money/
(DIR) Post #AdPrUvziUpeFMjVHOK by evangelos@libretooth.gr
2024-01-01T21:17:01Z
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@simon custom domain and https://neocities.org/
(DIR) Post #AdPrjDD7HfDaoZZye8 by ripienaar@devco.social
2024-01-01T21:17:21Z
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@simon you can now buy 10 year (long ago actually) but now also 100 year domains :)
(DIR) Post #AdPrjFdQGpRuKju0vY by ripienaar@devco.social
2024-01-01T21:17:54Z
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@simon domain is less a concern than general inactive account deletions or paying for hosting long term etc
(DIR) Post #AdPrzio1a5adRHiOhc by rst@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T21:19:20Z
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@simon "... and then they got bought by" is a risk for any commercial service. The Internet Archive isn't risk free either (litigation in the short term) but it's less likely to dramatically change mission or policies at the whim of some private equity shark
(DIR) Post #AdPsCH6LteWZHQH1Hc by arjen@idf.social
2024-01-01T21:20:19Z
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@simon I would buy a domain name and then volunteer it (the domain) to the Internet Archive's crawler and then you're safe until, well, I'd say close to eternity
(DIR) Post #AdPsansRgm9TskStH6 by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T21:22:07Z
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Since it's my birthday today, I asked @natbat if she could set me up a non-profit foundation which works as a co-operative where people can pool resources and donate their domain name and cash to keep it maintained (and static files served from it) forever, with a board of directors that appoints their own successors and keeps the thing running in perpetuity without it depending on any single individualShe said she already got me a new watch
(DIR) Post #AdPsmsz4WlUlCCKG5g by adam42smith@fediscience.org
2024-01-01T21:24:18Z
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@simon if it's an academic blog, consider looking at @admin which is designed specifically for persistence (and linkability & citability) of academic blogs. For the basic infrastructure I think github might be your best bet and it being static helps all around, of course.
(DIR) Post #AdPszHWH8AO2lZlcTA by dbreunig@note.computer
2024-01-01T21:21:28Z
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@simon In order, I'd recommend to someone without coding experience:1. WordPress2. Squarespace (been around awhile, bought Google domains, easy to use)3. Public pages on NotionBut: no one is close to Wordpress. I read a blog from a homeless guy who camps in the Berkeley hills who's been posting to Wordpress for a decade+, using a pay-go Android phone. No one else is as stable, easy, or accessible.If someone knows how the command line works, Github pages is a good option as well.
(DIR) Post #AdPszaNP1NZxFYlImG by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T21:28:10Z
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@dbreunig My hunch is that GitHub Pages can work even without command-line knowledge if you're a little bit clever about how you set it up for people (which you can do automatically using template repositories)Posts as markdown files which then get automatically published to Pages should work with editing directly through the web UI
(DIR) Post #AdPtQ4kuh826zyOGOG by zackbatist@archaeo.social
2024-01-01T21:31:24Z
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@simon Need to clarify whether you want to have stable content or a stable URL. For stable content I'd say wordpress is best because of its prevalence on the web and easy export/import processes. Changing domains does not mean that the content is unavailable, it just has the potential to break links and make content harder to find.
(DIR) Post #AdPtW5yd4DdOWWfz3Q by mirek@rodina-sucha.cz
2024-01-01T23:04:32Z
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@simon Be interesting enough that you get snapshotted by https://archive.org/web/
(DIR) Post #AdPtsaNehvwZBp6ebA by james@bne.social
2024-01-01T21:35:54Z
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@simon Potentially, use Amazon S3 with the raw AWS S3 website address? That does mean no HTTPS though (but that might be good for longevity anyway).Static files are much more portable for the future.
(DIR) Post #AdPu5AuEjTT3wkLgfo by floby@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T21:40:34Z
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@simon aw man, WordPress had it all along!
(DIR) Post #AdPuGqiDde2in8IJSS by s0enke@awscommunity.social
2024-01-01T21:41:49Z
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@simon @timbray An expired .DE domain will first go into "transit", and you will get a snail-mail letter from DENIC so you have a chance to reclaim it before they delete the domain.
(DIR) Post #AdPuSA8LloT2DAua0m by rf@mas.to
2024-01-01T21:43:43Z
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@simon @timbray you can leave a balance in a namecheap account and enable autorenewal https://www.namecheap.com/support/knowledgebase/article.aspx/232/7/how-can-i-add-funds-to-my-namecheap-account/ or use aws's registrar and prepay your aws bill
(DIR) Post #AdPuekCDW71TX2igKW by paulox@fosstodon.org
2024-01-01T21:45:50Z
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@simon I'm here to read good ideas 💡
(DIR) Post #AdPur4OMFsgpdwHAK8 by Edent@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T21:45:52Z
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@simon @timbray With Gandi (who I don't use any more), I could leave credit in my account and domain renewals would come from there.Doesn't quite solve the "changed email" or "lost access" problem. But did give some guarantee of continuity.Of course, they then massively upped their prices so I left.
(DIR) Post #AdPv3DzGPEd8sSKltI by scanner@apricot.social
2024-01-01T21:47:20Z
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@simon @timbray I use auto-renew at hover.com .. I guess the only issue is if I need to change payment methods (but that will require a lot of other things.. so I have a list for that.)
(DIR) Post #AdPvGZMwDhxMxMlr6m by Smoljaguar@spacey.space
2024-01-01T21:47:27Z
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@simon neocities has a strong track record
(DIR) Post #AdPvULIXKfrrN1HOoS by Selena@ivoor.eu
2024-01-01T21:49:44Z
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@simon @timbray It kinda sounds like you are thinking more 'manifesto' than 'blog': a singular story that you want to push into the world and have it maintain itself, rather than a work-in-progress that you keep adding to over the years.Or maybe I misunderstand?
(DIR) Post #AdPvhn8n7ncXUJ8OPY by Ric@awscommunity.social
2024-01-01T21:51:07Z
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@simon one suggestion would be to use a static blog generator like Hugo and host it on an s3 domain. And then just use the website endpoint as the URL https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/userguide/WebsiteEndpoints.html. Alternatively GitHub like you mentioned or GitLab pages
(DIR) Post #AdPwBgsEzPzojreM0u by flaws@mastodon.bawue.social
2024-01-01T21:52:31Z
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@simon I guess it is less the expiry per se but rather the willingness and/or ability of the domain owner to continue paying for the domain and the hosting?
(DIR) Post #AdPwBiz394dBHYqou8 by flaws@mastodon.bawue.social
2024-01-01T22:02:10Z
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@simon I wonder if there are any webhosting services where you can prepay for decades up front?
(DIR) Post #AdPwTb2DRDW9qEqzfU by pheraph@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T21:52:34Z
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@simon Especially when people die. Who has an inheritance rule for their domains?
(DIR) Post #AdPwlTol0ehUfe5P9s by signaleleven@social.sdf.org
2024-01-01T22:03:44Z
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@simon @stefan @reconbot if they lose interest, why would it have to stay around forever? Outside of things like the internet archive.I understand there's value in persistence, even of abandoned content, but...I'm thinking out loud, I don't know how I feel about this. With physical media the cost of preservation is lower, but effective discovery needs an archive and a librarian. It's still not automatic. Publishing online for eternity requires maintenance or a trusted archive.
(DIR) Post #AdPwyRCG47cyJ4G0m0 by wigbert@mastodon.world
2024-01-01T22:05:17Z
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@Simon @natbat still - a great idea!
(DIR) Post #AdPx9JNDUas9EEZHQe by coldclimate@hachyderm.io
2024-01-01T22:08:14Z
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@simon substack have recently proven themselves to make not great choices
(DIR) Post #AdPxKWPNMyYYqBvJmi by pamelafox@fosstodon.org
2024-01-01T22:08:59Z
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@simon my blogspot is still going, since 2007, but i believe blogger has something like a single engineer working on it, sooo... and yeah I'm copying everything off medium that i had there.
(DIR) Post #AdPxVhxikinVrOK21w by n3wjack@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T22:08:53Z
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@simon @timbray you could pay in advance for the domain.But you'll still have to maintain it, install updates etc, unless it's a static page blog.
(DIR) Post #AdPxh26WCox1VxpyCm by rem@front-end.social
2024-01-01T22:09:59Z
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@simon there's literally no answer. I saw TBL speak only once and he said that DNS was one of the biggest failings (exactly because of "rental" vs. ownership). It's also exactly why I made https://unrot.link - there's no good solution.
(DIR) Post #AdPxrbqEBrhhFPGDtA by coldclimate@hachyderm.io
2024-01-01T22:10:34Z
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@simon isn't the the original story of Book Of Dave?
(DIR) Post #AdPy5iGL75uFDUCPvk by alys@selfy.army
2024-01-01T22:12:10Z
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@simon Heroku changing its pricing might have been the single largest thing that broke hobby projects, and that probably killed a few blogs.
(DIR) Post #AdPyJbJziVQ9k9WzfE by mnot@techpolicy.social
2024-01-01T22:16:05Z
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@simon @timbray I use a separate address for registrations. Ymmv.
(DIR) Post #AdPyTrJd6d1sFCFgOW by jcf@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T22:16:30Z
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@simon I’ve toyed with this idea a little. Forever certainly makes things interesting, and the economics are fascinating.
(DIR) Post #AdPyl9fK8PLW4ue92W by dave_decker@fosstodon.org
2024-01-01T22:24:02Z
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@simon This is the value prop of posthaven. $5/month to post, and they won’t take it down after payments stop.
(DIR) Post #AdPywTurBSt44NJSiG by happyborg@fosstodon.org
2024-01-01T22:25:28Z
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@simon One of the primary goals of #SafeNetwork is to solve this problem, and it has now entered pre beta testing. It has been through a number of designs and false starts and is aiming to launch with relatively modest initial features compared to its earlier perpetual, versioned web. But the capability to implement that, inc. non-expiring human-readable domain names will be there. So watch this space in 2024, or even join in the testing and get a feel for what is coming. @mfowler @timbray
(DIR) Post #AdPz8rMhpHtyGrF26i by palendae@linuxlab.sh
2024-01-01T22:26:25Z
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@simon Is Pages 10 years old? I thought it was younger, but I’m honestly not sure.
(DIR) Post #AdPzLWea8vdNncdtSK by peter@thepit.social
2024-01-01T22:29:06Z
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@simon carve it in stone, or get used to the idea of impermanence.
(DIR) Post #AdPzhgq6x7GNlGbVBY by rf@mas.to
2024-01-01T22:36:36Z
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@simon @timbray Got it. I think you can already do a big prepayment to AWS and use S3 + AWS registrar + CloudFront/ACM SSL: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/awsaccountbilling/latest/aboutv2/billing-limits.html#limits-ap
(DIR) Post #AdPzhijntXPFeHfUdE by rf@mas.to
2024-01-01T22:48:50Z
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@simon @timbray It feels like there's still a potential place for a(nother) public-minded super-perma-link service--like they'll occasionally check you're up and serve from their archive or IA if not. They sit in the path either as a redirector or by serving your DNS.Of course, as long as there's a fallback, someone has to pay for it, including when a page gets popular, someone has to handle DMCA and other legal requests, etc. Tricky even with limited content size to help w/cost.
(DIR) Post #AdPzucCpUWNN9gOSIq by derivadow@mastodon.me.uk
2024-01-01T22:42:29Z
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@simon the content could be archived in the way back machine; if the foundation maintains the domain name then it could redirect to that once the original source dies?
(DIR) Post #AdQ05S1jg0nClsN5JA by allafarce@hachyderm.io
2024-01-01T22:44:23Z
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@simon Okay! I'd ask a few further questions then to inform the call:1. Are they okay messing around with web software, e.g. configuring DNS records, deploying via git? (opens more possibilities)2. How much positive feedback do they need to do it/keep with it? (not endorsing but pointing out that Substack has much more of this by default, arguably a big reason people are doing it/sticking with it)3. Are they in a community that has "spaces"/tools more predominant now?
(DIR) Post #AdQ05V0QbKWs0gmaBc by allafarce@hachyderm.io
2024-01-01T22:45:01Z
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@simon (Also really not trying to be pedantic — I think these dimensions are the ones that are important and underdiscussed relative to, say, technical platform risk!)
(DIR) Post #AdQ0FpIe0JNRqWEAQy by plznuzz@pawb.fun
2024-01-01T22:46:19Z
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@simon This is exactly the idea of Posthaven! https://posthaven.com/pledge It’s just barely breaching the 10 year mark for now, but they seem to be living up to what they say so far.
(DIR) Post #AdQ0QwruChyUVP1YYK by mala@fosstodon.org
2024-01-01T22:46:46Z
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@simon what about sdf.org?
(DIR) Post #AdQ0caxBVbCI0r2y1I by boxofsnoo@mastodon.online
2024-01-01T22:54:06Z
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@simon blog.simonwillison.net - you’re not going to let your main domain expire, especially if you have email attached to it. Subdomains are free.
(DIR) Post #AdQ0msi0Lm8vyWqqw4 by cypherfox@mas.to
2024-01-01T22:55:27Z
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@simon My first LiveJournal post from December 12, 2001! is still up.I’d argue the only way to really guarantee that something stays up is to own the domain yourself. Pay a decade in advance, and then put the content wherever you want.If you want to be crazy, build the rough equivalent of a URL shortener, run it on your domain and only post (essentially) meta-URLs. They could point to GitHub, Wordpress, or your own tooling, and you can change it if you need to.But Livejournal still lives.🤣
(DIR) Post #AdQ1BgWUnEn1QDINWa by benlk@newsie.social
2024-01-01T22:59:26Z
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@simon Speaking of WordPress.com: https://wordpress.com/100-year/
(DIR) Post #AdQ1aQV7V5AIyARwLw by webology@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T23:04:14Z
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@simon @natbat First, happy birthday. 🎂 Second, this is similar to some ideas @jonafato and I have noodled on over the years. It was more or less a co-op model along with some shared services/support.
(DIR) Post #AdQ1w7nNj9wrKIL13A by evan@cosocial.ca
2024-01-01T23:07:24Z
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@simon @philippe @timbray you're both thinking of the Wayback Machine. That's not what I'm talking about.You should read the docs I linked for Archive.org's free S3 clone. Stable, long-term URLs for original content.I don't know how well it would work for setting up a statically-generated blog, but it would probably be worth the trouble, especially if it worked with a CNAME from your own domain. You could pre-pay the domain for 10-20 years and know that the site would stay up.
(DIR) Post #AdQ2AZvVvuqCcz2A7c by paulox@fosstodon.org
2024-01-01T23:18:16Z
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@simon @natbat Buon Compleanno Simon 🍷🎉
(DIR) Post #AdQ2Ko8tvwGFc6Ao0e by tonybaloney@fosstodon.org
2024-01-01T23:24:12Z
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@simon I’m happy with GitHub pages. I got burnt with Medium. I feel better that I own all the content in Markdown so I can move in future if possible. Wrote a very small static site generator for the posts and RSS feed that styles the markdown with bootstrap then the homepage uses Render Engine https://github.com/tonybaloney/tonybaloney.github.io/blob/master/blog-gen.py
(DIR) Post #AdQ2WGGZi6Gk1VDxXk by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T23:29:05Z
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@evan @philippe @timbray Oh wow that's amazing!Do you know of any examples of sites that are hosted on there? The http://stats.s3.us.archive.org/downloadsPerDay.png in their docs is giving me a 500 error at the moment
(DIR) Post #AdQ2nyuEzgPVOUE8oK by palewire@mastodon.palewi.re
2024-01-01T23:03:17Z
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@simon @natbat couldn't existing libraries do this?
(DIR) Post #AdQ2oE5QYNGsTWZmpU by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-01T23:30:35Z
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@palewire @natbat Yeah, libraries could be a great organization to handle this - not sure if it's offered by anyone as a service to the general public, as opposed to an academic service that's mainly for University members
(DIR) Post #AdQ32vXxlYOhJpvwHo by numist@xoxo.zone
2024-01-01T23:34:30Z
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@simon It would be funny if the Internet Archive offered a blog hosting service—bit-rotted personal sites are most of what I use the Wayback Machine for already 😅
(DIR) Post #AdQ3Fy4rfUoavrXckS by heracles@mastodon.social
2024-01-01T23:38:17Z
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@simon Instead of a single bulletproof server, I'd also look into replication, i.e. redundancy over resilience. Several single-purpose programs have a magical way of surviving across websites and web eons.
(DIR) Post #AdQ3QjZPwiZf7lxwTQ by sbank@hachyderm.io
2024-01-01T23:40:11Z
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@simon I wonder what the feasibility of creating an entry in Wikipedia on oneself? Then for your page you just add your own content as you see fit. Maybe talk in the third person like that Seinfeld episode. (Just thinking out loud.)
(DIR) Post #AdQ3bilLHzkdnxma6i by jik@federate.social
2024-01-01T23:44:22Z
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@simon Put it on whatever domain you want, have archive.org archive it, and use archive.org links as permalinks?Hmm, someone should write a WordPress plugin to facilitate that.
(DIR) Post #AdQ3mf6NExQjdWpx1E by mwarkentin@hachyderm.io
2024-01-01T23:47:41Z
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@simon I thought IPFS was a neat idea but it was all mingled up with crypto shit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterPlanetary_File_System
(DIR) Post #AdQ3yMgbXEC3zqMce8 by jik@federate.social
2024-01-01T23:47:49Z
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@simon @natbat I'd donate.
(DIR) Post #AdQ4BFQbpb9PFc1d8y by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T00:05:40Z
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@mwarkentin My problem with IPFS is that files CAN go missing from it, if they end up not getting "pinned" by anyone - so I don't think it's a great reliable long-term archival mechanism for truly niche content (like pages of a blog no-one cares about any more)
(DIR) Post #AdQ4M4sTOl8TiLDrEW by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T00:06:25Z
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@sbank I know people who had a Wikipedia page, then were put up for a "Vote for deletion", found not-notable-enough and had their page deleted! Pretty traumatic
(DIR) Post #AdQ4Xm4F9yKiqnIzjc by bix@social.lol
2024-01-02T00:07:45Z
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@simon For real though the best options are a domain you’re willing to keep paying for, and data portability. Setting a cap at “ten years stable service” just serves to shut out new players. Are there really people starting out blogging who are concerned with using one service that’s “set it and forget it”?
(DIR) Post #AdQ4j8yyIq0z6bGEtc by evrys@mas.to
2024-01-02T00:07:52Z
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@simon I think generally the design of the web isn't conducive to unmaintained long-term content; best bet is making sure the site is structured and licensed in a way that makes it as easy as possible to archive or fork, and delegate someone to take over ownership if you're no longer around
(DIR) Post #AdQ4uGYEVEc1lU3d0y by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T00:08:52Z
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@evrys Yeah, "the design of the web isn't conducive to unmaintained long-term content" captures this problem pretty well!
(DIR) Post #AdQ5lxKWBOfvmyFBJp by mfowler@toot.thoughtworks.com
2024-01-02T00:53:25Z
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@simon @timbray That's a good point - and one I haven't really put much thought into.
(DIR) Post #AdQ5x3eqznjubH38XA by migurski@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T00:55:32Z
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@simon @palewire @natbat Some parts of this like timely DNS renewals, SSL certs, etc. feel like they need continuous partial low-level attention. Other parts like file hosting could maybe be done in partnership with the IA? E.g. their S3-like API is pretty good and intended for long-term availability https://archive.org/developers/ias3.html
(DIR) Post #AdQ5x5hlNxFswsQULY by migurski@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T00:55:53Z
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@simon @palewire @natbat (also yay new watch and happy birthday!)
(DIR) Post #AdQ69xZsuf6vVWsSrA by devlord@hachyderm.io
2024-01-02T01:12:58Z
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@simon @mfowler @timbray I agree with Wordpress. I let mine stagnate for 10 years but all the content is still there. And they support domain names, too.
(DIR) Post #AdQ6RsJfDLGwOwphJo by thattommyhall@functional.cafe
2024-01-02T01:14:00Z
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@simon @Dtl they are retiring old accounts soon, I imagine a lot will drop off then
(DIR) Post #AdQ7PIYbIKBks69e4G by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T01:38:27Z
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@thattommyhall @Dtl Urgh, what a bonfire of internet culture!
(DIR) Post #AdQ7eYK6xShA76eQoy by colindean@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T00:58:58Z
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@mfowler @simon @timbray a 10 year registration can help. Just had one of those expire last year. I think there are registrars that might allow longer or draw from a stored value for extending registrations past the TLD rules.
(DIR) Post #AdQ7eZHfO2Kl5oVzeK by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T01:39:36Z
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@colindean @mfowler @timbray 10 year registrations make me nervous though, because it feels even more likely that I'll miss the reminder to extend and lose my domain name (since I didn't have to think about it for a full decade)
(DIR) Post #AdQ9qtV2Fd3fApm0v2 by colindean@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T02:05:30Z
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@simon @mfowler @timbray that's the beauty of putting more money in the stored value account. You can't necessarily predict what the registration fee is going to be in 10 years but you can make sure that you're adding some money to it yearly such that when that registration expires and begins to Auto renew, the money is there and continues to be there along with your calendar reminder on January 1st
(DIR) Post #AdQAMD4FY1XCq8B2mm by mterhar@bfd.so
2024-01-02T02:11:29Z
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@simon @natbat these things always fall apart when the illegal, immoral, etc content people want in. Or human traffickers. Lots of great ideas are ruined by content
(DIR) Post #AdQCsAJpVE9DUQpVxo by kc@social.coop
2024-01-02T02:39:24Z
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@simon eu.org still exists (and it's been going on since ye olde internete days now), also freedns.afraid.org too. Always good alternatives to domain registrations
(DIR) Post #AdQDHcxQA7R9YBUPku by evan@cosocial.ca
2024-01-02T02:44:09Z
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@simon @philippe @timbray I don't! I am not even sure it's possible. And definitely not as easy as using GitHub Pages. But if you wanted to bet on a service remaining online longer than any others, a.o is a good bet.
(DIR) Post #AdQFiaQlrcrtRQCVMG by mjgardner@social.sdf.org
2024-01-02T01:53:24Z
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@perigrin @textfiles @brewsterkahle Coincidentally https://blog.archive.org is clearly a #WordPress #blog
(DIR) Post #AdQFibBD4y0zlRvak4 by textfiles@mastodon.archive.org
2024-01-02T03:07:22Z
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@mjgardner @perigrin @brewsterkahle My opinions will be different than Brewster's. But I have thought about it.One of the things I have said is Jason's Rule of 100 Years, which is any entity that claims to sustain service for 100 years are liars or ridiculously naive. That said, you can certainly try to put actions and setups into place to sustain a certain material or location or resource for as long as possible. It is not easy and there's no guarantees, though.
(DIR) Post #AdQIHB44MmJ0oUCidU by Corvan@chaos.social
2024-01-02T03:40:00Z
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@simon at least here in Germany you pay a monthly fee to your domain provider and the renew will be done automatically for you.
(DIR) Post #AdQJ8sJQIrcYI7zUFU by rcrowley@mastodon.rcrowley.org
2024-01-02T03:49:49Z
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@simon I wonder if any academic institutions give alumni a ~/public_html like many give alumni a permanent email address. It’d be fun to still have cec.wustl.edu/~rcrowley/, if nothing else.
(DIR) Post #AdQJXLT7YHkjfVC9Tc by lewiscowles1986@phpc.social
2024-01-02T03:54:23Z
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@simon @natbat Happy Birthday!
(DIR) Post #AdQJizsxcjQECipyzY by lewiscowles1986@phpc.social
2024-01-02T03:55:32Z
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@simon Not trusting folks without a decade is a sure-fire way to avoid creating more companies in that space.Maybe just communicate risk; but for what most folks post and cost, archive.org could give them a perpetual backup anyway right?
(DIR) Post #AdQLIBHPLrvXdHc54q by jszym@cosocial.ca
2024-01-02T04:13:46Z
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@simon theoretically PostHaven is supposed to address this sort of thing but I'm not sure if I believe their guaranteeshttps://posthaven.com/help#archive-mode
(DIR) Post #AdQLUvmaHUGlKkH8Lo by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T04:14:44Z
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@jszym the thing I want to see from them is a detailed description of how they ensure longevity - what does their governance look like? How many human beings are in-the-loop such that they can survive the disappearance of key individuals? That kind of thing
(DIR) Post #AdQLfUncwbIEpeniPg by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T04:15:35Z
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@lewiscowles1986 I get that, but my experience is very much that 95% of companies won't still be here ten years after they've launchedEven the ones that make it past the ten year mark have to REALLY work to gain my long-term trust - I trusted Heroku for nearly 15 years for example, and then they rug-pulled
(DIR) Post #AdQLsIRQCdJOGiWC2K by eaton@phire.place
2024-01-02T04:17:12Z
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@simon so, I’ve been going back and digging up a bunch of my old work (aka, sites I built for clients in the 90s). Domain expiration is less common than host-rot, IME. More folks seem to hang onto a domain than continue to pay for hosting, though it’s a small samole size.
(DIR) Post #AdQM4l2JiFX8QhiYj2 by jszym@cosocial.ca
2024-01-02T04:22:44Z
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@simon totally agree. They are depending on a lot of trust where frankly there is a terrible track record, and it isn't apparent how their approach is different but for a pledge.A trust or nonprofit with transparent contingency plans and redundancy would go a lot further to assuage my concerns.
(DIR) Post #AdQMHrJlfZy7fy7xey by lewiscowles1986@phpc.social
2024-01-02T04:23:54Z
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@simon I Hear you, and I agree that non-open platforms, with a nice UI or integration mechanism are a risk.FWIW Heroku still works and exists, they just stopped being free and as low-cost as they once were; and that felt predictable to me.IMO, It harms smaller enterprises to have giants offering those free-tier plans; even if they do make tech more financially accessible, it feels like rug-pull offering.15 years is also a really long time. I Notice Datasette has some great deploy options.
(DIR) Post #AdQPKr05bcrHQH2hqy by agladders@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T04:59:04Z
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@simon posthaven might fit your bill. Run by good people and they actually have a >10 yr track record
(DIR) Post #AdQTFW10bI4MhuBNYW by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T05:43:12Z
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@lewiscowles1986 The Heroku rug-pull is that if you created a project on Heroku 10 years ago, on the basis that it was free (albeit scale-to-zero) and hence a safe place to leave something online, they changed their pricing model in a way that subverted that trust you placed in themA bunch of newsrooms did exactly that, because newsrooms don't have the budget to keep a little interactive they built for a story running forever even if it only costs a few dollars a year
(DIR) Post #AdQTWWqsk7pcE0Ygk4 by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T05:45:48Z
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@lewiscowles1986 What I found frustrating about this is that Heroku had very carefully designed their free tier to support their business model. It wasn't presented (or internally thought of) as a limited-time preview offer, it was a core part of their offeringAnd it worked great! Heroku were an extremely profitable business... but years after the founders had left some Salesforce VP spotted a cost-saving opportunity, and the Heroku cultural norms had degraded such that they shut it down
(DIR) Post #AdQUYi6NzDU9eLPkpc by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T05:57:55Z
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@mterhar @natbat yeah, I expect the most important role of the organization behind this will be dealing with things like DMCA takedown notices
(DIR) Post #AdQV9bXlKjHO1WoPWC by lewiscowles1986@phpc.social
2024-01-02T06:04:27Z
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@simon We fundamentally disagree it seems on software ethics, and how we process sales and marketing materials.I Have and always will have, zero trust in any commercial business. I'm not aware of a single commercial entity that ever existed, where trust was not misplaced.Newsrooms, especially modern ones, are businesses and should pay.Newsrooms could absolutely upload their little interactive to github, if they want it preserved forever; or use archive.org; or whatever hosts their site!
(DIR) Post #AdQVWkJsrzpVu2M5c8 by lewiscowles1986@phpc.social
2024-01-02T06:07:01Z
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@simon This bit> It wasn't presented (or internally thought of) as a limited-time preview offer, it was a core part of their offeringMakes me very sad for the engineering and product teams at Salesforce.Nobody [save the tax man] has any rights to someone else profits.Again, I think this might be a division in our personal ethics, but I thought I'd communicate it, to be clear and offer contrasting view.Imagine cutting back on staff, because you're spending that $$$ on a free-tier.
(DIR) Post #AdQWybyxYtsS6hQ3aS by arathunku@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T06:24:56Z
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@simon I wish Fastmail(!) had some automatic static site builder. They already accommodate custom domains, exposing files https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/1500000280141-How-to-set-up-a-website. IMO, when it's active, personal blog goes with personal email!Yes, you still need to buy the domain but you can now buy domains for 10 or more years and Fastmail also helps with that. Internet Archive as backup.
(DIR) Post #AdQXX2M80mOZkWfgyO by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T06:29:26Z
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@lewiscowles1986 what annoys me is that newsrooms made a carefully considered architectural decision to use Heroku here, because pricing is part of architectureThose newsrooms were paying for Heroku for other projects! But even $3/month for an interactive doesn't make sense for something that should continue to work (serving minuscule traffic) for decadesThis isn't about freeloading: it's about picking tools based on their documented pricing promises
(DIR) Post #AdQXlCNDYyxWs9vxZI by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T06:31:56Z
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@lewiscowles1986 if Heroku had said "free for small scale personal projects for the next 5 years, but then you'll have to start paying" newsrooms and students and others would have chosen to use something else - including maybe building things as client-side apps instead because long-term static hosting is easier to find than long-term dynamic server-side hostingBut Heroku offered free low-traffic scale-to-zero hosting, so people made architectural decisions to build things on that
(DIR) Post #AdQYBrvlg1mPHzoOPo by lewiscowles1986@phpc.social
2024-01-02T06:37:20Z
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@simon As a former software architect, I can tell you, people like that are why I won't work under that title any more. It's short-sighted to the point of negligence. They were lucky to get 10 years from "the marketing copy said it will be okay".Companies try like the plague, to operate on trust; sometimes refusing to negotiate legal agreements. If someone's "trust" means they won't put it in binding writing, then they are not to be trusted. And it's not trust if you use a contract.
(DIR) Post #AdQYYhQWtc9dNA5RJY by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T06:39:30Z
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@lewiscowles1986 the lesson I've learned is that companies often have norms and values that are embodied by the staff (or the founders) - but those things are actually extremely delicate over the long runStaff turnover means that in 5-10 years the people who understood those norms and values have likely cycled out of the company
(DIR) Post #AdQYj4Rq9uGJfQe480 by lewiscowles1986@phpc.social
2024-01-02T06:39:59Z
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@simon my comments about charging orgs is not about an org not paying at all. It's that as a commercial enterprise, they should have to pay for every single thing. No line-item amortized.If the person on the street cannot setup a competitor without millions in funding, it's straight anti-competition that we've come to accept, to allow businesses to offer these tailored deals.For education, it's skeezy, but makes sense. Train them to think in your lanaguge / tech.
(DIR) Post #AdQbHot6Cg0jS35o1o by bartvdo@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T07:13:12Z
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@simon @timbray I use easydns they offer automatic renewals.
(DIR) Post #AdQcWbryzD1LNIBdmS by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T07:27:09Z
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@bartvdo @timbray automatic renewals only work up until the point my credit card expires, then everything gets pretty dicey
(DIR) Post #AdQdlEUAJHvj9EaClE by bartvdo@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T07:40:57Z
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@simon @timbray ah, yes, so I use paypal, and I have enough things running on it that I ‘ll replace the cc when expired. While you might be right that stuff disappears when people loose interest, it’s seldom because of expiring stuff. At some point everything changes and you learn to deal with it.And not everything expires at once. Or rely on archive.org. I bet most is lost because people use a different website setup at some time and forget to redirect links.
(DIR) Post #AdQgfyyQr4Y9SAvbii by ross@fosstodon.org
2024-01-02T08:13:16Z
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@simon @jasontucker I don’t get people saying WordPress is best for this. That requires so much infrastructure and tooling that could break or be hacked.Static HTML files are the way to go.But a domain for a large number of years. Hosting will come and go. AWS maybe? Very hard to say.
(DIR) Post #AdQl9HhCj1Y5jY67M0 by sil@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T09:03:43Z
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@simon yup. This is why I am loath to buy domains for small projects; I killed soonsnap, and put farmbound on kryogenix.org because (among other things) I don't want to be on the hook to pay for domains for them every year for all eternity.On the other hand, what are the chances that some company reliant on VC money won't get bought or bored in the next ten years? Low.So neither situation is good.
(DIR) Post #AdQlJkM31lFZVsBsyu by claudius@darmstadt.social
2024-01-02T09:04:01Z
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@simon waybackmachine / the internet archive is now the only source for so many things I remember from the early internet. It's very sad.
(DIR) Post #AdQlWzt4aYUVS2xLwO by mikemccaffrey@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T09:07:59Z
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@simon @natbat I often think that we need digital columbariums where you can upload your digital content, or those of your loved ones, and it is maintained in perpetuity after you die using an endowment model.Personally, I would love for some of my photos to keep existing after I am gone.
(DIR) Post #AdQlio8e61tCUJs7qC by sil@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T09:06:54Z
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@simon My new-internet-thing rules are, I think, these:1. if you have a personal domain already then you're likely to keep it. Host things there, not on their own domain.2. if you don't, then you have no pre-existing inclination toward internet permanence. Decide whether you or VC-funded companies are likely to have more staying power2a. if you think it's you, buy a domain and host your thing on it2b. if it's not you, pick a company with a good record (github, wordpress &c) and put it there
(DIR) Post #AdQlis99C6fQv28aB6 by sil@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T09:09:20Z
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@simon key point: whichever way you choose to host your new internet thing, be sure that archive.org indexes it. Ping them so they know about it and keep good indexes of it, and re-ping them from time to time. That way, if your chosen host pivots, or if you get bored, the content will still exist in a place where people can find it.
(DIR) Post #AdQljMCjRLMO8q2rvk by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T09:08:07Z
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@sil when I'm evaluating open source libraries I actually give them very slight negative points for a custom domain, because I figure that means their docs are more likely to succumb to linkrot in the future!
(DIR) Post #AdQm3iPSahOqnlhqym by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T09:09:35Z
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@mikemccaffrey @natbat "digital columbariums" is a fantastic turn of phrase, love that!
(DIR) Post #AdQmHG8qUHDtBUORhg by sil@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T09:10:39Z
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@simon me too :) and for the same reasons!
(DIR) Post #AdQmTbR38zKmhTnHmq by heycitizen@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T09:18:14Z
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@simon aws S3 will let you serve static html over http(s). It's extremely cheap (cents to a few dollars a year depending on traffic) and it's not going away for a very long time. You can either tie it to a domain or use a free random subdomain.
(DIR) Post #AdQmeIwAGBAMVyRzpg by danjac@masto.ai
2024-01-02T09:10:25Z
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@sil @simon I wonder if this is something Mozilla could provide, which fulfils their mission statement of an open web: free permanent hosting of static websites.
(DIR) Post #AdQmeJrEpyotMz9ZnE by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T09:19:58Z
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@danjac @sil doesn't even need to be free - the thing I care most about is reliable longevity and dependable governance
(DIR) Post #AdQmoFZ7eOLSxBPo4u by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T09:20:38Z
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@heycitizen of only they'd let me over-pay up front for a few dozen years of hosting costs
(DIR) Post #AdQn0i4LV61upZxdvU by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T09:22:05Z
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@heycitizen (plus I really wish S3 was easier to use, setting up credentials for it remains way too hard for people who aren't wufteare professionals, and tbh it's too hard for me as well)
(DIR) Post #AdQnqMhOCRpjbur2Ke by mborus@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T09:33:52Z
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@simon My AOL pages from way back when are still available via the way back machine, I’d self host and make sure they visit me. You could also release yearly omnibus-editions in ebook format. (personally never got around to getting a proper blog, because I couldn’t decide on a css and there’s also the question of running a blog in English or my native language, maybe I’ll manage a decision in 2024)
(DIR) Post #AdQo117mkj6lsuHR6e by tanepiper@tane.codes
2024-01-02T09:35:25Z
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@simon @sil This is definitely something I've learned - vanity URLs are really not worth it, eventually everything will live under *.tane.dev - even this Masto instance I regret putting it on tane.codes because I'll have to maintain it no matter the price unless there's a way to migrate it.stochasticparrot.lol will also be due soon and while it was a fun experiment @StochasticEntropy exists and can be its record of existence
(DIR) Post #AdQoFam50It2VN4rmS by jornfranke@mastodon.online
2024-01-02T09:38:20Z
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@simon many Internet pages are archived by @internetarchive (you can after each blog post also ask to immediately save it there)Source code is archived by @swheritage (similarly you can also include your repository once (they poll it for updates) or often a whole provider ("forge") is included e.g. as with @Codeberg )
(DIR) Post #AdQp3wkbZSkF8sOlvM by miki@dragonscave.space
2024-01-02T09:47:35Z
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@simon Whatever you end up doing, ensure you're properly crawled by archive.org in any case. Custom domains help with this, I've seen a platform throw a tantrum over their content being there when they went down and opt themselves out, losing years of valuable community history.
(DIR) Post #AdQqKQiO24GKf6mi2K by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2024-01-02T10:03:27Z
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@simon "domain names expire" Not always, some registries have no concept of expiration (this is currently the case of .bf, for instance).
(DIR) Post #AdQqOwUZpLaSNMTdNw by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2024-01-02T10:04:16Z
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@simon I don't see how you reconcile "domain names are not good because they expire" and "use something under github.io"
(DIR) Post #AdQqS9pigLk2cYtpT6 by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2024-01-02T10:04:49Z
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@simon A domain name under .onion ? They don't expire :-)
(DIR) Post #AdQqXAQdtZTNuqYh3g by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2024-01-02T10:05:44Z
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@simon My advice would be: "publish widely, and put it in a git repo, encourage people to clone it".
(DIR) Post #AdQqrhBPpCgfIGE0Yq by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2024-01-02T10:09:28Z
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@sil @simon And not only Web Archive but also other archives (in France, the Web crawl of the National Library https://www.bnf.fr/fr/centre-d-aide/depot-legal-des-sites-web-mode-demploi#step02
(DIR) Post #AdQrTS00j7XtCntSIS by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-02T10:07:35Z
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@bortzmeyer track record: GitHub haven't broken anything hosted on Pages since they launched it, and appear to have stable management and a functional business model that's compatible with continued free hosting
(DIR) Post #AdQrXNQJgHySAl4OXI by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2024-01-02T10:17:00Z
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@simon I would not say there is a "functional business model" when they already have been sold to a bigger company, which could have done anything it wanted with them.
(DIR) Post #AdQy48Rkz78V0JkOLA by researchbuzz@researchbuzz.masto.host
2024-01-02T11:28:29Z
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@simon I have been running my blog for 26 years in April. Started at FrontPage, went to Movable Type, now at WordPress and very happy. I think you can register domain names for up to 10 years at a time, can't you? Also, WordPress offers a 100-year hosting plan, though its price (38K) is way outside my range. https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/28/wordpress_100_year_plan/
(DIR) Post #AdQyuYFOIuL056xPHM by danjac@masto.ai
2024-01-02T11:37:40Z
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@simon @sil if not free though then it's up as long as someone pays (same as for domains). If we are talking about a site that outlives the owner (or their bank balance) though...
(DIR) Post #AdR7y02YKHYqjgfg6i by mwarkentin@hachyderm.io
2024-01-02T13:19:28Z
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@simon yep definitely. Theoretically you could figure out how to set up your own pin to keep it around as long as possible, and it seems to remove the DNS issue though.
(DIR) Post #AdRD8BznEL44Tw3mxE by abachman@hachyderm.io
2024-01-02T14:17:19Z
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@simon multi-step plan, based on the fact that the only URLs I have found working (and unchanged) +20 years later are .edu1. get a faculty job at a university2. get tenure3. host blog on your /~username web directory site 4. ? 5. endowment :blobfoxthumbsup:
(DIR) Post #AdRDIcA4nj8GWtq7fc by brunoscheele@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T14:17:59Z
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@simon Wouldn’t the @internetarchive fit this bill? It wouldn’t help with links to your site being unbroken, but your content will still be available for a long time to come.
(DIR) Post #AdRDuS9USqcEURbmSm by bjhess@social.lol
2024-01-02T14:25:48Z
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@simon Sivers has put a couple of ideas of a sort that falls along similar lines: https://legacytrust.nz/ and hundredyearhost.com.
(DIR) Post #AdRIHcNH1X2MffMB2O by crschmidt@better.boston
2024-01-02T15:14:38Z
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@simon Create a new Dreamwidth account.(People won't like this suggestion for a bunch of social reasons, but it's genuinely a good option for this.)
(DIR) Post #AdRLf107vbnFZXNVx2 by suetanvil@freeradical.zone
2024-01-02T15:52:28Z
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@simon @natbat There's the archive dot org wayback machine, of course. They have a good track record and will associate your website with its original domain name, so it's still findable. I think I'd trust neocities or codeberg more than github despite the shorter track record just because they're nonprofits while github could easily just decide one day to take down pages.
(DIR) Post #AdRRNbhrJrHbvMurGC by kadin@mastodon.sdf.org
2024-01-02T16:56:43Z
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@simon I have a blog on SDF.org that I am hopeful will outlast me. IIRC, SDF dates back to 1987, so it's already outlasted the dot-coms and most of Web 2.0.Hosting there, plus ensuring I get crawled by the Internet Archive Wayback Machine, and not using any complex HTML or JS that's likely to be deprecated in future browser versions, is my current strategy. Plus just keeping the whole thing small.Sadly there's just no way to square the usual "buy your own domain!" advice with longevity.#SDF
(DIR) Post #AdSNtQT0RCtvfoqU1g by rick@mas.ggr.me
2024-01-03T03:52:36Z
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@simon I think I’d recommend getting your own domain name but paying for as many years ahead as is allowed. Then set a reminder to check a couple times a year to keep pushing that date out. Then if you have like an insane year or two and don’t check it you are still fine.
(DIR) Post #AdTV1GScPzxBnGJDsm by bodhipaksa@mastodon.scot
2024-01-03T16:47:06Z
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@simon I'm puzzled by what you say about domains expiring. Of course they do, but you can keep renewing them indefinitely. I've owned one of my domains for almost 25 years now. When you entrust your blogging activity to anyone but yourself you run the risk of the service being cancelled, or advertising being forced on readers, etc. When a blog is self-hosted you have complete control.
(DIR) Post #AdTbqxkHqRfOX7bkyO by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2024-01-03T18:01:08Z
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@bodhipaksa I'm looking for advice I can give other people who want to try their hand at blogging without committing to domain renewal for the rest of their life and beyond
(DIR) Post #AdTdTzIC7x9eZwdlqa by bodhipaksa@mastodon.scot
2024-01-03T18:22:08Z
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@simon That's a different situation from the one I thought you were initially describing, and yes, for someone just starting out it's probably overkill to buy and host a domain name. Something like Medium might be a better fit, or Wordpress.com, which you'd mentioned.
(DIR) Post #AdXpa9RNHnEZs8TnF2 by happyborg@fosstodon.org
2024-01-02T15:21:26Z
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@sil And may I suggest, remember that github = Microsoft, and that almost any company that isn't already owned by one of the big untrustworthy corporations can become owned by one of them overnight. Currently we have no good options.Until we do I'd put the emphasis on portability, not so much on past record.Is it easy to export into a useful format? If so, do it regularly in case one day it is not.@simon
(DIR) Post #AdXpaADwNE5AIlCZwO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-01-05T18:58:03Z
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@happyborg> Currently we have no good optionsA lot of new hosting companies are being set up specifically to fill this gap.Shameless self-promotion; Bridge Seat Cooperative is one of them, see;Bridgeseat.nzWe are worker-owned, democratically run, and immune to VC funding or acquisition. We'll be taking on beta testers soon and hope to have production systems ready for customers in a few months.@sil @simon
(DIR) Post #AdXrKRU0dWgP6ZLhU8 by happyborg@fosstodon.org
2024-01-05T19:17:36Z
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@strypey Thanks and while I wish you good luck because this is a step in the right direction, it doesn't solve the underlying issue of preserving links and access to information published on the web. The existing web architecture doesn't provide a good option for that, but solutions are on the way and may begin this year. 🤞 @sil @simon
(DIR) Post #AdaqgPkCGVqrbQiImu by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-01-07T05:54:32Z
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@happyborg> it doesn't solve the underlying issue of preserving links and access to information published on the webTrue enough. I keep a weather eye on projects like BitTorrent, IPFS and DAT (or whatever it's called now), in search of scalable ways of making web content independent of DNS. As @sil says, domains expiring is a big cause of linkrot.@simon
(DIR) Post #AdauAGKO8g9SwsZA5Q by peterrenshaw@ioc.exchange
2024-01-07T06:25:53Z
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@simon hosted a site since ‘94. ‘94 to ‘08 on my ISP- no domain just ~username- html static - hand written & perl‘08 - ‘14 google- domain name- GAE / webpy- dynamic / static‘14 - 24 local web host- domain name- email (dns => domain)- html static - python, rust, text files
(DIR) Post #AdauzXaFk2kREfRDfc by peterrenshaw@ioc.exchange
2024-01-07T06:39:56Z
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@simon hosted a site since ‘94. The key thing for me is consistent, clean url access & content. I want it to stay there so I organise & pay. ‘94 to ‘08 on my ISP- no domain just ~username- html static - hand written & perl‘05 - ‘24- Flickr which I use for image use / storage‘08 - ‘14 google- domain name- GAE / webpy- dynamic / static‘14 - 24 local web host- domain name- email (dns => domain)- html static - python, rust, text files
(DIR) Post #AdavMoBKCHDHNDsBea by peterrenshaw@ioc.exchange
2024-01-07T06:42:48Z
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@simon if that’s the case any social media, hosts that supports this, and you’ll be at their mercy for storage, monetisation, deletion. @bodhipaksa
(DIR) Post #AdbHI1cizUU4bfoUbo by happyborg@fosstodon.org
2024-01-07T10:52:38Z
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@strypey yes, and another to watch is #SafeNetwork which I've been helping test.