Post AdL5foASMbblqQo48m by TeflonTrout@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by TeflonTrout@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #AdKcgMx88Vel3eULyq by stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe
2023-12-30T10:02:22Z
0 likes, 4 repeats
Every time I look at the drawers of 'put away' items, especially old cell phones and tablets, I see still-functioning devices that could continue to serve a purpose. Take, for example, the old Motorola phone my mother discarded due to years without security updates. I believe it's no less efficient than an old Raspberry PI - it even has a screen, good built-in WiFi, various sensors, a camera, etc. Yet, this Android terminal has been abandoned since 2018, and I feel quite insecure running software on it.The European Union, often too focused on bureaucracy and not enough on the real world, did make progress with USB-C. It would be wonderful if they could mandate manufacturers to open up their devices once they are abandoned. I dream of being able to install an updated OpenSource OS (not necessarily *BSD, but at least Linux) detached from Android, or at least an AOSP version of Android, without resorting to questionable binaries from XDA. Essentially saying: 'You've bought my device, I won’t update it anymore, but since the hardware still works, you're on your own but you can keep it running.'My drawers are full of high-quality, still usable but abandoned devices. I'd rather use my old Huawei as a surveillance camera (which now has outdated and unupdated software) than any device sending my images to obscure clouds in countries with questionable laws. I'm considering starting a petition – not sure if there are any yet, will do some research – but I'm fairly certain it won't lead to much. Planned obsolescence is a concept too ingrained in today's technology, and there are too many interests behind it.#TechSustainability #OpenSource #RightToRepair #PlannedObsolescence #EuropeanUnion #DigitalRights #Technology #OSS
(DIR) Post #AdKd17Ov9W0MuFNhq4 by tara@hachyderm.io
2023-12-30T10:06:05Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@stefano +1 on this. I am pretty sure that @nina_kali_nina would agree with that.
(DIR) Post #AdKdkadbIVkQc6vjay by fedops@fosstodon.org
2023-12-30T10:14:20Z
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@stefano I agree.Have been thinking of using the old discarded Androids as local operator panels around the house. For things like switching on and off lights or displaying time and weather info. They'd still be perfectly fine for that, and would not need to go onto the Internet all so the lack of security updates wouldn't matter.I'm reluctant to do it horsecar because they'd just consume power while being a solution to a problem I don't really have.
(DIR) Post #AdKdvlg2asT62MOy6y by gurgle@aus.social
2023-12-30T10:16:19Z
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@stefano like I agree with this idea, but who do you expect to build this custom OS for your random old Android phone? Hint - it's the people already doing it on XDA! Thanks to AOSP, for the for better or worse most Android phones are there already. It's iOS devices that are crying our for some obsolescence laws
(DIR) Post #AdKdyqwdSuEPF8dPzk by gurgle@aus.social
2023-12-30T10:16:53Z
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@stefano like I agree with this idea, but who do you expect to build this custom OS for your random old Android phone? Hint - it's the people already doing it on XDA! Thanks to AOSP, for better or worse most Android phones are there already. It's iOS devices that are crying our for some obsolescence laws
(DIR) Post #AdKeUMB1OZB35JNz3w by TheDailyBurble@mastodon.social
2023-12-30T10:22:31Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@stefano I wish. I hate how working tech is supposed to be binned in favour of sales for new devices.
(DIR) Post #AdKecFnD0zHLbM0syW by MagicMutti@mastodon.social
2023-12-30T10:23:49Z
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@stefanoas a ordinary person I got lineage on my old Samsung tablet and im completely finde with it. now im searching for a new mobile because my Sony has not enough storage due to lots of pre-installed google apps I never use but cannot deinstall. what I need is a clear recommodation and instruction guide how can I install #bsd or else which is written for people like me. and which system (lineage, bsd...) should I use for daily use as ordinary people?could someone help me?
(DIR) Post #AdKg2Hpk9KM1PlAyga by stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe
2023-12-30T10:39:57Z
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@gurgle Sure, they're doing on XDA, but many of those are just mods of the original, outdated, closed kernels, etc.There are great projects out there, like LineageOS, GrapheneOS, etc. but they can't do much for undocumented, closed devices.
(DIR) Post #AdKgPQ3pj7gNainTjk by Tionisla@troet.cafe
2023-12-30T10:44:06Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@stefano +1 there also should be a right to unlock /full access to devices as well. Some manufacturer make that uneccessarily complicated. Yeah, I know... "sEcUrIty AnD oNlY tO pReVeNt mE fFrOm bRiCkIng"I remember the days I got full blueprints with my stereo rack in case I want to fix (ruin*g*) it, which was a dufferent approach of a manufacturer/customer relationship *sigh*
(DIR) Post #AdKhyGrk0P4lAAK75k by catavz@mastodon.social
2023-12-30T10:44:39Z
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@MagicMutti @stefano Sony is a good starting point for custom roms.https://developer.sony.com/open-source/aosp-on-xperia-open-devices/
(DIR) Post #AdKkViEbTCB9Vh5hOS by stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe
2023-12-30T11:30:05Z
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@Tionisla I still remember my old MacBooks - they gave you full instructions to replace ram (still available: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102416).Now, don't even dare to touch anything. Don't upgrade, don't repair.The same approach that is coming to cars.We'll be spending life paying and we won't be owning anything.
(DIR) Post #AdKlKN89h4LepHEOvI by Tionisla@troet.cafe
2023-12-30T11:39:13Z
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@stefano that's also why I still ike my old dell latitude e6540. It's a nice machine to tinker with.It's an core i7, Speeds still ok, Battery is easily replaceable, ram maxed out to 16g, 2ssds (m2 + sata), and recently added wifi6 with an intel ax210.
(DIR) Post #AdKldM8tajIFGPd6zA by ianthetechie@fosstodon.org
2023-12-30T11:42:40Z
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@stefano @Tionisla sad but true. I always bought the MacBooks with maxed out CPU and minimal RAM and Storage configs for years then bought RAM and disks separately.
(DIR) Post #AdKljIANHt8SfZ9UNk by stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe
2023-12-30T11:43:45Z
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@ianthetechie @Tionisla same approach here. And once I had a faulty ram, I first removed it (running the system with reduced ram), then bought and installed a new module.
(DIR) Post #AdKoB4c3TMXCeOTSxk by Judeet88@universeodon.com
2023-12-30T12:11:10Z
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@stefano Years ago, probably back in the 1970s my dad talked about "built-in obsolescence" and how it was a big scam. I saw then why their very old cooker and fridge kept going perfectly well for years and years and why dad knew how to fix and mend so many things back then.
(DIR) Post #AdKoHJOzOp22FwKzpI by catavz@mastodon.social
2023-12-30T12:12:00Z
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@stefano @ianthetechie @Tionisla Nowadays, soldered ram fashion has become widespread. Batteries became internal and non-removable. We're just more liberal with the discs.
(DIR) Post #AdKqEKIhnl9m5C6QD2 by mario@hachyderm.io
2023-12-30T12:34:08Z
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@stefano in principle I really like the idea but I see many practical hurdles.The moment you say “you’re on your own but you can keep it running” the number of people who could bother with this becomes incredibly small.Then there is the angle where you’re using a device for a totally different purpose than what it was designed for. It could work but I’m not sure it would work really well.
(DIR) Post #AdKqY20XWYiV8j0AYC by catavz@mastodon.social
2023-12-30T12:23:51Z
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@stefano @ianthetechie @Tionisla All things became more and more totally replaceable from repairable.
(DIR) Post #AdKqaZxqFIRJ26xFHU by mario@hachyderm.io
2023-12-30T12:37:50Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@stefano as much as I like the idea of re-using old devices I believe it would be more effective to put the effort to make sure they can work for their original purpose as long as possible, that they are repairable.Instead of saving a handful of phones repurposed as home servers or security cameras that would have a much bigger impact.Said that, why can’t we have both? In an ideal world we would have long-lasting, repairable devices that can then be repurposed as we like
(DIR) Post #AdKrcKJ5Wvdz0RI14a by HumanServitor@mastodon.social
2023-12-30T12:49:39Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@stefano I have a "server" on an internal network that is an older model Samsung phone running an Ubuntu instance via the Userland app. Turns out, they have plenty of horsepower to run a pseudo-VM.Secure... I don't know, so let's assume not at all. But it makes me happy to think of it as a really cool tiny computer instead of just a crappy old phone.
(DIR) Post #AdKs6EDsiN5qpB72MC by lionelb@expressional.social
2023-12-30T12:55:05Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@stefano In terms of scope, Ubuntu Touch is quite limited. The reason is that Android phones - unlike laptops - do not follow a consistent hardware schema. Nevertheless, options for a good number of handsets. @ubports
(DIR) Post #AdKtxxcmk7H0wAwjoW by xdydx@mastodon.social
2023-12-30T12:43:23Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@dch @stefano There are excellent legislative suggestions in this thread! @neil would approve.Maybe we should start writing to #MEP representatives
(DIR) Post #AdKwHPnGR2JZiEFgwa by carcosa@emacs.ch
2023-12-30T13:41:55Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@stefano @gurgle Yeah, the biggest problem for old phones is that the manufacturer, if they release sources to their kernel modifications at all, just pitch it over the wall, and it quickly becomes impossible to rebase them on newer kernels. So even if you build a new AOSP for an old phone, it's always on an old kernel.
(DIR) Post #AdKwXwUEeP89k2ET5c by peek@pouet.chapril.org
2023-12-30T13:31:48Z
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@stefano That's so true. We need to gain access to hardware specs of abondoned smartphone and other hardware things. It will be obligatory for the future of our planet.
(DIR) Post #AdKzOdhpPKGykZqViC by benjaminallocco@universeodon.com
2023-12-30T14:16:51Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@stefano Until it somehow starts costing governments money to deal with these discarded items, no legislators or private interests will care, so it won't get traction. But I am 100% on the same page as you. It is criminal how these companies blatantly force consumers to discard their perfectly functional hardware every 2-3 years as a business model. Case in point: I just had to replace a 5 year old Samsung tablet because my workplace updated our security requirements for work devices (it was a private device I chose to use for work and play), and the tablet had stopped getting security updates in 2020. Nothing wrong with the device except that it has been deemed "obsolete."This wasteful, exploitive practice should be criminal.
(DIR) Post #AdL5CIqLkPlUIQKgN6 by tara@hachyderm.io
2023-12-30T14:50:02Z
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@richardtroupe open source them after their lifecycle ? That is a great idea.@stefano
(DIR) Post #AdL5foASMbblqQo48m by TeflonTrout@mastodon.social
2023-12-30T15:27:06Z
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@stefano This absolutely should be within the realm of current Right to Repair movements.
(DIR) Post #AdL6pwlHMmFNLeQcPA by secupriv@mastodon.nl
2023-12-30T15:40:12Z
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@stefano it’s not my field of expertise but doesn’t the ‘repair of goods and amending Regulation’ focuses on this?https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A52023PC0155
(DIR) Post #AdLCaCZHQix5SkgvHl by devil@mastodon.uno
2023-12-30T16:44:36Z
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@stefano i love the idea!@EU_Commission
(DIR) Post #AdLDDLM4h5TC0cB99c by fiery@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-12-30T16:51:41Z
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@stefano that’s exactly how it should be. The company can support and profit by selling parts and maintenance as long as they wish. As soon as they stop supporting the device, they are required to release all information necessary for other people to keep supporting, fixing and even repurposing the device. It is not too much to ask, it won’t cost more to the companies and they can still profit by selling parts and maintenance if they want.
(DIR) Post #AdLDkdyOUeVxJ9ytRA by stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe
2023-12-30T16:57:44Z
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@secupriv I'll have a deeper look at it, but as far as I remember, it just documents about repairability, not software updates/etc. But I might be wrong.
(DIR) Post #AdLG1NgMW0vXc8ehns by GreenRoc@mastodon.social
2023-12-30T17:21:00Z
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@stefano "Every time I look at the drawers of 'put away' items, especially old cell phones and tablets, I see still-functioning devices that could continue to serve a purpose. " Same. If not for the "upgrade" that a company decided on, some of my devices could be used fully. Instead, I have a Blackberry, a 5x7 tablet, and several mobile phones that can still take a charge and power up to it's main screen. W/o mobile connection, they're overpriced timers. I dont like waste of undamaged hardware.
(DIR) Post #AdLNkXQbpIIeYDlbkm by thepanz@phpc.social
2023-12-30T18:49:43Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@stefano same here, my daily driver is still a Xiaomi phone from 2018, which got updates for just 1 year.Still running fine after 5 years (just replaces its original battery for 10€ last month), on LineageOS updated to the latest November 2023 release.I feel so sad for all other phones I collected from relatives, some of them still working but not updated anymore and with "the storage space run out" problem, where useless apps could not be removed, and the phones not rooted 😞
(DIR) Post #AdLiPh1D4Z5TFcmv5c by skry@mastodon.social
2023-12-30T22:41:08Z
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@stefano If government and industry would finance the effort to set up repurposing and recycling co-ops, geeks could repurpose a lot of gear.
(DIR) Post #AdLjygpRrz5okhXRi4 by mybarkingdogs@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-12-30T22:58:48Z
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@stefano Agreed. Honestly I think it needs to be allowed that if you own a device, you can do whatever you want with it - install different OSes, repurpose it into something else, recycle the parts yourself into other devices, whatever.
(DIR) Post #AdMPH8taLxgZ8IOIu8 by justdude@mastodon.nl
2023-12-31T06:41:32Z
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@stefano There is a framework solution, 8 year warranty for phones. The Fairphone, https://www.fairphone.com/en/Actively supported by the company to develop a *nix like OS, parts can be bought and replaced by the owner. A good investment I presume.Same for laptops, I just heard of framework computers, same concept
(DIR) Post #AdMYThd3wKftv3j6vo by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-12-31T03:49:02Z
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@secupriv @stefano Unfortunately it won't cover the issues around software and hardware under trade secrets. A lot of these right-to-repair bills don't address the problems in IP law, just require that repairs can be done by independent shops (potentially under NDA) and ensuring that extra parts are manufactured.It looks like this bill is largely trying to support advertisement of refurbished devices and repair services over new products.
(DIR) Post #AdMYi3tTxMdD1iFn5U by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-12-31T03:33:02Z
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@carcosa @stefano @gurgle Not only that, the IP law around a lot of the really important bits is so strict that it is actually illegal to perform some of these modifications in certain jurisdictions as it is considered to be a form of circumvention. Until IP law is revolutionized, e-waste will continue and right to repair will struggle.Trade secrets need to go, at a minimum.
(DIR) Post #AdMZ2GTEuF9NpAc1dw by stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe
2023-12-31T08:30:56Z
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@justdude I like this approach, and I'm considering to get a Fairphone / Framefork computer. But I'm afraid this will always be a niche solution for tech enthusiasts. The problem is that for some years, technology has only seen numerical advancements. A phone from five years ago is similar to one today. Better cameras, faster processors, sharper screens, but ultimately, they do the same things. There haven't been substantial advancements. Now, there's all this talk about AI. For now, though, moving objects in a photo by relying on Google's cloud doesn't seem like a significant advancement to me, but rather just another excuse to fill the cloud with data and charge subscriptions for space extensions.
(DIR) Post #AdMaL5tkXQnwUUYSAK by justdude@mastodon.nl
2023-12-31T08:45:31Z
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@stefano The fairphone can be upgraded, new mainboard and new camera etcetera. So no issue, a new screen costs 99 euro. And moving out of the cloud and streaming is the new move for the next years. We are too dependent on that
(DIR) Post #AdMapm0EYi7tlODUKu by qwwerty@hachyderm.io
2023-12-31T08:50:12Z
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@stefanoGoogle specifically have been getting much better at this. The newest Pixels have 7 years of security updates, which feels like it's getting closer to the likely lifetime of the hardware for most people @justdude
(DIR) Post #AdMcYKQC3I3rCtAUwS by justdude@mastodon.nl
2023-12-31T08:56:16Z
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@qwwerty @stefano Nice but the issue is the company behind it. I dislike FB Gloogle without transparency and decent opt outs. So open source or linux on a phone, my phone ;), is the best for me in future
(DIR) Post #AdMcYLNOVBPsAUrmDY by qwwerty@hachyderm.io
2023-12-31T09:05:43Z
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@justdudeI was ignoring ROMs on the basis that "normal" people aren't ever going to go down that route. The upside of long support from Google is that Graphene OS depends on Google for security updates. There's an interesting thread about Fairphone support, but tl;dr they aren't great at prompt security updates: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/7208-8y-security-updates-on-fairphone-5-will-the-devs-consider-porting-grapheneos@stefano
(DIR) Post #AdMnGZsUwfv7Qa97C4 by MagicMutti@mastodon.social
2023-12-31T11:10:05Z
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@catavz @stefanoI tried but this is only working at Linux, isn't it? I need an instruction for windows... could someone help?#followerpower
(DIR) Post #AdN4e32CPHqzjhSdOa by abit_kt7@mastodon.social
2023-12-31T14:25:04Z
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@stefano this is so frustrating. I have collected a bunch of android devices but I am unable to exploit, android 4 or 7 on it but closed. PostmarketOS is noble but I don't understand their goal.I don't need Android either, I need to be able to use their network, screen and audio interface without downloading 200GiB of AOSP, 500MiB of blobs and building it for 2 days on my 8cores CPU to see it fails/bricks the device :).
(DIR) Post #AdObgsf4v9V84yZ4U4 by gnemmi@mastodon.sdf.org
2024-01-01T08:10:03Z
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@stefano I remember I signed up the @fsfe "Open Letter:The universal right to install any software on any device" back in november 23, 2022 .You can find the text in here:https://fsfe.org/activities/upcyclingandroid/openletter.htmlAnd may also want to take a look in here:https://fsfe.org/activities/upcyclingandroid/upcyclingandroid.en.htmlThe @fsfe has been doing an admirable work in that and many other regards.https://fsfe.org/activities/policy.en.html#TechSustainability #OpenSource #RightToRepair #PlannedObsolescence #EuropeanUnion #DigitalRights #Technology #OSS #FSFE
(DIR) Post #AdOxi6gUT4c8qqDODY by jarjan@mederland.nl
2024-01-01T11:34:19Z
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@stefanoI completely agree, I have similar drawers with similar hardware lying around. Manufacturers should indeed be obligated to open up their devices after they stop providing updates. @EU_Commission Time to act?@estakkie
(DIR) Post #AdQqabJwMtfmBk3qgS by Edent@mastodon.social
2024-01-02T10:06:24Z
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@stefano I'm curious. How would you implement such a rule *without* bureaucracy?Presumably you'd need to write some rules which couldn't easily be bypassed (that's bureaucracy).And you'd also need to ensure compliance (also bureaucracy).You'd probably want to monitor if the rule was meeting its goals in the "real world" and, if not, how to tweak it (again bureaucracy).FWIW, I completely agree with you. But you can't achieve any real world effect without effective analysis.
(DIR) Post #AdQwdXn6XzMrpqUNUm by stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe
2024-01-02T11:14:12Z
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@Edent Of course we need bureaucracy - the point of my post was that sometimes EU is too involved in pure bureaucracy than in solving real problems. But, actually, to solve real problems we need (at least some) bureaucracy.