Post AdKb7XmbmHMWYeOgee by ErikUden@mastodon.de
(DIR) More posts by ErikUden@mastodon.de
(DIR) Post #AdKWqbvWiaSEfcEs3U by ErikUden@mastodon.de
2023-12-30T08:14:17Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Hey Fedi Admins, y'all federating with this? :Threads_Burning: #FediPact
(DIR) Post #AdKWqclHc9r3G8SCjA by skobkin@lor.sh
2023-12-30T08:56:59Z
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@ErikUdenAre you suggesting to block large instance just because there are some morons or trolls?
(DIR) Post #AdKX9AVQtOUB7zsmgK by kaia@brotka.st
2023-12-30T09:00:16.979113Z
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@ErikUden they will block me anyway because women should not speak in public :KroosEvil:
(DIR) Post #AdKXSA0Iz1X94aNYi8 by grillchen@brotka.st
2023-12-30T09:03:46.581173Z
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@kaia @ErikUden wie need tools Mike that for mastosoc and Mastodon.art
(DIR) Post #AdKa9B1lFmSSbjhR7A by ErikUden@mastodon.de
2023-12-30T09:33:57Z
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@skobkin No, I'm suggesting to defederate from instances who not only allow but endorse users who disobey your rules, especially when it comes to discrimination, disinformation, etc.If Threads was a Mastodon instance it would violate almost every instance's rules.
(DIR) Post #AdKahlCXGb0Ie1EJZQ by skobkin@lor.sh
2023-12-30T09:40:12Z
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@ErikUdenHow exactly are they endorsing users to break their rules?
(DIR) Post #AdKb7XmbmHMWYeOgee by ErikUden@mastodon.de
2023-12-30T09:44:52Z
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@skobkin they endorse users who disobey our rules by pushing accounts like Moms for Liberty, Gays Against Groomers, or other alt-right and far right accounts / viewpoints. They allow such users on their platform even after reporting, which means they are tolerating what they are posting.Again, if this was a Fedi instance it'd be defederated.
(DIR) Post #AdKcRY80IvIhNFVYq8 by skobkin@lor.sh
2023-12-30T09:59:42Z
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@ErikUdenI see.But still if it's their instance then your rules don't apply there.Not sure how they can endorse someone to your instance users though.Also not sure why ban entire instance instead of just suspending or limiting bad actors too.It lowers an amount of moderation work needed, but degrades the decentralized network.For me personally instance user's ability to read anyone is more important.
(DIR) Post #AdKct6zEoCkLIxYBwe by ErikUden@mastodon.de
2023-12-30T10:04:39Z
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@skobkin have you ever run a social network? You're telling me I should individually ban each Nazi on the 141 million user social network instead of just defederating from the Nazi network all together? Sorry not sorry, but that's just not possible. Every Admin has a limited amount of time. If your instance isn't moderating discrimination it has no place interacting with our users.Those were the rules for every other Fediverse instance, and we do not discriminate nor favor Threads in any way. They are to be treated like every other instance. For me personally an instance's user's ability to not be harassed but protected is more important.
(DIR) Post #AdKdRiICc3RCqvv7o0 by ErikUden@mastodon.de
2023-12-30T10:07:08Z
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@yukijoou @skobkin that too! As well as not moderating alt-right, fascist, or openly Nazi accounts.Sorry not sorry, we ban individual users if admins aren't capable of enforcing their rules fast or well enough, but we defederate if admins willingly allow users that discriminate and break our rules.I don't care if it's a 10 user or 141.000.000 user network. Allow fascists, you won't be part of our internet.
(DIR) Post #AdKdRj7FYGGrPFntNA by mja@comp.lain.la
2023-12-30T10:10:47.625761Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ErikUden @yukijoou @skobkin im an alt right neonazi fascist and i hate kikes also gay people
(DIR) Post #AdKdoWKZFjVIPjtynw by skobkin@lor.sh
2023-12-30T10:15:02Z
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@ErikUdenYes, I did.We have reports to deal with that. You can say that reports are reactive and not proactive. But then you're becoming biased to a LOT of users just because they've chosen their instance without thorough due diligence.Not sure how this helps to protect users because bad actor can register on your instance or any other instance you're still federating with 🤷In the end you'll still be reacting to that after the fact.
(DIR) Post #AdKfUAfKIGKFKz2IJU by themeowcate@piaille.fr
2023-12-30T10:33:45Z
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@skobkinIt's simple. If bad actors register on an instance you're federating with, you report it to this instance's admins. If they don't see the problem, you deferedate with them because they're going to let problematic users and content reach your instance.If bad actors register on your instance, contact your admins. If they don't care, change instance for the same reasons.Federation is a tool, not a duty. If you think "just report, block them, deal with it", that's X.@ErikUden
(DIR) Post #AdKkhBLxY1Wj0P074S by wxifu@shonk.lyraa.gay
2023-12-30T10:30:47.878Z
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@skobkin@lor.sh @ErikUden@mastodon.de yes they can register on any other instance, though if they proceed to attack someone or whatever they'll either be reported and have action taken by that respective instance, or, if they proceed to do nothing, endorse it, whatever else that instance might also be blocked as a result.Also on another note some fedi software, like Firefish, specifically mention defederating instances that allow such behavior as part of their server guidelines. In general, threads should be given the same treatment as a regular instance, albeit a massive one, and going by that they'd already violate a ton of instances rules or become a possible threat as having to moderate potentially a few thousand to a tens of thousands of accounts isn't possible, let alone practical, for most volunteer instance admins and mods. As for that number, LibsOfTiktok alone had a following of roughly 30k last time I checked, though being generous here as not every single one of them might be active.
(DIR) Post #AdKkhCFcD62vn12Yoy by skobkin@lor.sh
2023-12-30T11:32:07Z
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@wxifu @ErikUden > if they proceed to do nothing, endorse it, whatever else that instance might also be blocked as a resultSo the bad actor has useful means to degrade Fediverse connectivity. Nice 👍> a possible threat as having to moderate potentially a few thousand to a tens of thousands of accountsSo if mods are feeling incapable of doing moderation why not limiting the instance instead of suspending / blocking?This way users still can follow anyone there if they want, but bad actors won't reach your instance themselves. 🤔
(DIR) Post #AdKl6uTutmc4CxzUPo by skobkin@lor.sh
2023-12-30T11:36:48Z
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@themeowcate @ErikUden > Federation is a tool, not a duty> If you think "just report, block them, deal with it", that's X.Ok, let's suppose that I have my own instance which I don't right now.The only thing I don't think is that I have right to decide what users CAN read. If I feel that the instance can be malicious, I can LIMIT them, so bad actors from there won't reach my users on their own. But if my users WANT to read someone there, I shouldn't be the one to tell them if they can or not :philosoraptor:
(DIR) Post #AdKlNV1So8GcAhanQW by TomSwirly@toot.community
2023-12-30T11:39:47Z
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@skobkin @ErikUden > But still if it's their instance then your rules don't apply there.Exactly, which is why Federating with a massive organization that allows hatespeech is bad.There are 1500 Facebook users for every Mastodon user. We will be overwhelmed by it!> For me personally instance user's ability to read anyone is more important.Explain how not Federating with Threads prevents people who want to from going to Threads and read anyone?
(DIR) Post #AdKlpb8RfsuxEoFy9w by skobkin@lor.sh
2023-12-30T11:44:53Z
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@TomSwirly @ErikUden > Explain how not Federating with Threads prevents people who want to from going to Threads and read anyone?Why should I explain that if that implies the fact that I'm leaving them no choice in such case?Why should they leave? Why should I give them a binary choice 'You're with us or you against us'? Why should they choose between local users and threads users? Why should they watch Facebook ads? Why should they be a subject for Facebook algorithms in their feed?I can't explain that to myself.
(DIR) Post #AdKmdRrIRGomwj0Q4G by TomSwirly@toot.community
2023-12-30T11:53:52Z
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@skobkin @ErikUden People have all the choice in the world.People don't have to "leave" Mastodon in order to see some other feed: web browsers have multiple pages.I can go to threads.net and see a bunch of content without an account.Complaining that you can't see Threads on Mastodon is like complaining you can't see Netflix on YouTube.There are 1500 FB users for ever Mastodon user. Even if only 1% ever use threads, that's 15 of them for every one of us - 15x the work for moderators.
(DIR) Post #AdKnfXDfZuOy6d1t21 by skobkin@lor.sh
2023-12-30T12:05:27Z
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@TomSwirly @ErikUden > I can go to threads.net and see a bunch of content without an account.Uhh-huh. It would be so convenient. Exactly the same experience like home feed.> Complaining that you can't see Threads on Mastodon is like complaining you can't see Netflix on YouTube.This is where it becomes funny. Federation and interoperability is exactly the thing to solve that problem. This is the one of key points that distinguishes Mastodon and other federated networks from Facebook and YouTube.But as always people are ruining it 🤷♂️So yes, if I WAS able to see Netflix on YouTube because they were created to operate this way and then someone said that now I can't, I'll complain.
(DIR) Post #AdKo1h7TRzqvBIhL8K by TomSwirly@toot.community
2023-12-30T12:09:27Z
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@skobkin @ErikUden > It would be convenient.The effort involved in opening a second page is tiny, so this is not in fact any sort of consideration.> This is where it becomes funny. It would be nice to have one interaction with you where you showed some respect.The advantage of Federation is not that you should be required to carry content you don't want to.My instance doesn't federate with a lot of other instances: explicitly Fascist or white-power instances, for example.
(DIR) Post #AdKpavL2g2RDMzPIB6 by skobkin@lor.sh
2023-12-30T12:26:57Z
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@smallpatatas @ErikUden Nope?
(DIR) Post #AdKsGzICZ7rvhjGPC4 by themeowcate@piaille.fr
2023-12-30T12:57:03Z
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@skobkinYes, you can, you absolutely can. And if your users are not happy with that, Mastodon has tools to change instance : they're not forced to stay here as they'd transfer their account.Your instance, your moderation rules. Like if you own a forum. A Discord server. A Minecraft server. You can even have an closed Mastodon instance for your work or a small group of friends.This is not like others social networks trying to connect the whole world together *whatever the cost*.@ErikUden
(DIR) Post #AdLQAtrtDX5haKE1Ue by itsmeholland@mastodon.social
2023-12-30T19:16:29Z
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@skobkin @ErikUden yes, many large instances have policies which state explicitly that they defederate from instances who knowingly host hate speech & do nothing about it. Threads is one such instance, so yes, it's absurd how many instances who have such rules are making an exception for Threads. Including mastodon.social, which includes harassment, hate speech, & misinformation in its reasons for limiting many other instances. Why should Threads be an exception? Because it's "large"? Who cares?
(DIR) Post #AdLQTbZDU7PEKKPUR6 by skobkin@lor.sh
2023-12-30T19:20:19Z
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@itsmeholland @ErikUden Me 👌As I already said I don't think that defederation is a tool that should be used often. We have more useful tool called "Limit".
(DIR) Post #AdLQgFUMslMncKAgj2 by itsmeholland@mastodon.social
2023-12-30T19:20:12Z
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@skobkin @wxifu @ErikUden this is literally the bread & butter of what makes the fedi a better experience than most other social media. Yeah it means you get to host an instance where you let people be nazis & pedos. It also means I can just an instance that doesn't allow my users' information to be shared with nazis & pedos. That's the magic. If you choose to hang out with nazis & pedophiles, no one is obligated to hang out with YOU either, bc they don't want to associate with nazis & pedos LOL
(DIR) Post #AdLQoqWx2v8GogTmFc by skobkin@lor.sh
2023-12-30T19:24:09Z
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@itsmeholland @wxifu @ErikUden You lost me on guilt by association.
(DIR) Post #AdLUVaJVW14gprGIFc by ex@utih.net
2023-12-30T19:57:38.476313Z
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@skobkin You don't understand, there're pedos, nazis and pedonazis. I think the best solution is to not federate at all.@itsmeholland @ErikUden
(DIR) Post #AdLUVbZUq3SUjjkZoO by skobkin@lor.sh
2023-12-30T20:05:03Z
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@ex @ErikUden @itsmeholland Well, I didn't think about it that way. You have a point 🤔
(DIR) Post #AdN6ZlukJjVbOA3zqi by maelduin13@mas.to
2023-12-30T11:48:19Z
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@ErikUden @skobkin @themeowcate Not that I'm some kind of fedi guru, but I've been saying for months that federating with #threads will initiate the 'mega-instance scenario' whereby one or more huge servers destroys the entire MO of the #fediverseProb the only solution is a limit on server sizeThe fediverse only works when it is a mass of small / medium sized servers that can block each other at willThat's the whole f***ing pointcc @erosalie @trumpet https://mas.to/@maelduin13/111601021390201985
(DIR) Post #AdN6Zmt0hfiMP4G7ma by bauser@a2mi.social
2023-12-31T14:39:03Z
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@maelduin13 @ErikUden @skobkin @themeowcate @erosalie @trumpet If that's the "whole fucking point," why isn't that point enforced at a protocol level (other than the fact that it can't realistically be enforced at a protocol level)?The notion that the highest ideal of a federated network is 'we can't allow anyone to be too successful' sounds like a lowbrow satire of Communism. I can't even picture how the #fediverse utopians think that would work!