Post AdDOyNeEzyBIpVONSC by harish@hachyderm.io
(DIR) More posts by harish@hachyderm.io
(DIR) Post #AdDIhvshrpSeM2vrIu by mms@emacs.ch
2023-12-26T21:15:33Z
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[new #emacs varia] https://michal.sapka.me/emacs/whys-of-emacs/Here I try to explain why I have returned to Emacs and why I love it so much.
(DIR) Post #AdDK1cMEGY15Y3gwNc by mms@emacs.ch
2023-12-26T21:30:20Z
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btw: I *hate* the term Hackable Editor which VS Code is proud to wear. It's not #hacking if it's the root of your design. Are you hacking MacOS by changing highlight color?
(DIR) Post #AdDMqKcOBD7zCwYnQW by harish@hachyderm.io
2023-12-26T22:01:53Z
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@mms Could you help me elaborate on this? I read your article and generally have the same worldview. Also, as a long-term Emacs user, I don’t feel the need for anything else.But I’m trying to articulate the difference between the design of something like VS Code and GNU Emacs. Would you say it is the boundary where the static core and the dynamic layer on top is set?I just want to understand this.
(DIR) Post #AdDNWV4ngd2zo1xOcq by mms@emacs.ch
2023-12-26T22:09:32Z
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@harish AFAIR they share the design. You can’t interact with system apis from lisp/js and that’s where the core (c or electron) exists. The biggest difference for me is the license, worst language used and, well. While vsc tends to work, it’s so boring and yet you are constantly combated by distractions, like notifications. Emacs is the /fun/ editor for me.
(DIR) Post #AdDOGV8HoGRbIjWS12 by harish@hachyderm.io
2023-12-26T22:17:50Z
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@mms Yes, thank you. I am trying to arrive at a “deeper truth” like the “‘electron layer is too fat’ and therefore something.” But I don’t think it exists. I think they are the same system built at different times.For example, if you were going to make Emacs today, what would one make it in. There is nothing fundamental about C and Elisp. So I’m trying to think about what else is central to the core design.
(DIR) Post #AdDOc3og3GBGx5dAZc by mms@emacs.ch
2023-12-26T22:21:44Z
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@harish if RMS would be involved? Most likely the same - vide https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html “programming languages”. JS is really becoming a good language. It made the web and computers worse, but by itself? It grew. I’m
(DIR) Post #AdDOkYKmTGOtuyhEdk by harish@hachyderm.io
2023-12-26T22:18:47Z
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@mms I think I’m trying to elaborate on the bit that goes “it’s so boring.”
(DIR) Post #AdDOkZ0bxjrS0iGdqC by mms@emacs.ch
2023-12-26T22:23:16Z
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@harish Its too plug and play. It expects you to find a plugin and forget. It does not invite you into the underbelly. It does not expose the JS behind the interface.
(DIR) Post #AdDOyNeEzyBIpVONSC by harish@hachyderm.io
2023-12-26T22:25:46Z
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@mms Do you mean the cultural model of how people are encouraged to use VS Code, or the actual technical model?
(DIR) Post #AdDPEMODRfCJYmW4Yq by mms@emacs.ch
2023-12-26T22:28:39Z
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@harish i think both? I may remember badly as it’s been years, but it’s not that easy to enable chromium debugger for backdrops itself? In emacs you get elisp repl as a buffer on startup. But I have met very few users of vsc who modify it beyond installing plugins.
(DIR) Post #AdDPKLqkMhSfchib2W by harish@hachyderm.io
2023-12-26T22:29:44Z
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@mms No, I am not thinking about RMS or JavaScript. I am thinking of core design patterns.But thank you for engaging me in this conversation.
(DIR) Post #AdDQ3nVEOmeoQ1KCjw by sachac@emacs.ch
2023-12-26T22:37:49Z
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@mms awwwwww! Yeah, the #Emacs community is really something special. Thank you for being part of it!
(DIR) Post #AdDQ7rHoH1ehJMz2o4 by harish@hachyderm.io
2023-12-26T22:38:41Z
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@mms This is closer to what I’m getting to. I have used (vanilla GNU Emacs) for like 25 years and only now realising the business of Elisp and how it’s fundamentally different from, for example, Vi.Like I’ve been using it like how you describe people use VS Code (or any other app, really). And now I’m suddenly learning Lisp and realising how much I can control.I want to see the difference between this and if I’d instead got this realisation on VS Code, for example.
(DIR) Post #AdDZEbmdD712qQh40e by louis@emacs.ch
2023-12-27T00:20:43Z
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@mms Huge joy to read your article (and the website in general!). Makes we want to eradicate my remaining use cases for VS Code even faster. Luckily, end of the year time also means time for some Emacs config tweaking.Can't wait for news on your book project. 🚀#Emcas
(DIR) Post #AdDZGArcGfdfvylukK by louis@emacs.ch
2023-12-27T00:20:59Z
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@mms Huge joy to read your article (and the website in general!). Makes we want to eradicate my remaining use cases for VS Code even faster. Luckily, end of the year time also means time for some Emacs config tweaking.Can't wait for news on your book project. 🚀#Emacs
(DIR) Post #AdE9uAr7JWABqHuXnE by tennoseremel@lor.sh
2023-12-27T07:11:37Z
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@mms // h1 gets out of screen with larger browser's default font size (mine's 22, the font used is IBM Plex Mono).
(DIR) Post #AdEAyOnBXWjQB7eNii by mms@emacs.ch
2023-12-27T07:23:37Z
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@tennoseremel TIL. thanks, I’ll try to fix overflowing.
(DIR) Post #AdEWShUqf0JxuhMboG by lf_araujo@mastodon.social
2023-12-27T11:24:23Z
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@mms I don't think emacs is all that stable in my system. It hungs from time to time and I think it is something related to ESS in my case. It is hard to debug or I really am too dumb to debug such emacs issues. Now, I can't leave it, orgmode + TRAMP + ESS makes for the perfect scientific notebook.
(DIR) Post #AdFcPA7778lIOPuyDQ by rasmus91@fosstodon.org
2023-12-28T00:05:41Z
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@mms I thought when i started reading this "this will probably have some negative comment about systemd" and lo and behold...I agree with this on a lot of points. I don't use Emacs, but Helix. I am not particularly interested in editing the code I'm running by editing lisp, seeing as that will result in me spending all my work time trying to get my editor to do that one thing i want it to do in that one particular way. Also: terminal modal editors ftw!
(DIR) Post #AdGO0u1U5EPTL0maJs by mms@emacs.ch
2023-12-28T08:59:07Z
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@rasmus91 I understand it completely. But personal I don’t care much about productivity (up to a certain point. I make a living by coding for a company after all), but rather about enjoying the process. You know “the journey is the destination” or how the saying goes. It can be very annoying when your tool breaks. But I *love* fixing it :-)
(DIR) Post #AdH9ngTruvgdNAp1P6 by KarlPettersson@mastodon.nu
2023-12-28T17:54:35Z
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I tried emacs again during the last days (had not used it since 2012, I think). One may also compare it with acme (have seen suggestions that is a pun on "emacs"), where everything is text executable with the mouse. http://acme.cat-v.org/