Post Ad2ljNSInaEikWhbAO by herrmannpierre@mastodon.world
(DIR) More posts by herrmannpierre@mastodon.world
(DIR) Post #Acza1lniHWxav1IXJ2 by 8petros@petroskowo.pl
2023-12-20T06:22:44Z
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#All-Crisis #Wszechkryzys
(DIR) Post #Aczi6Qq8RNuszUAH9U by largess@mastodon.au
2023-12-20T06:59:09Z
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@breadandcircusesWhile I agree with this, I would like to point out that green growth isn't about addressing Climate Chnage becase it doesn't, it's about maintaining the status quo. It's impossible to replace fossil fuels with renewables (Vaclic Smil etal) no matter the entitled insistence of most in here who bleat on about ecars etc and any proposals invariably involve the rich continuing to destry the planet.Actually addressing Climate Change would help significantly with many of the other issues but what an actual 10% emissions reduction per annum looks like is never discussed , just draw a chart with a vertical line and be done with it. The first thing would be to ban flying, private jets and advertising. That could be done in a few weeks if we treated this like an actual emergency..That aside, there is NO chance of addressing climate change let alone other issues with a nation state competitive model of the world, none. I had some hope with the EU model. We can't even engage in an honest discussion let alone act on it, certainly not in the time frame needed ( 2035 or so) Entitlement, bullshit and blustering is all we have.
(DIR) Post #Aczi6RxGINDARsVTto by 8petros@petroskowo.pl
2023-12-20T07:52:26Z
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We indeed put in motion processes we cannot stop, let alone reverse. But it is not about releasing methane clatrates or melting glaciers - it is about capitalist civilisation.
(DIR) Post #Ad05XkFRe6JdZcXUUC by 8petros@petroskowo.pl
2023-12-20T12:16:20Z
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But I am not despairing (besides, I will not live long enough to experience the most interesting events). We - the fading generation - can do quite a bit either along the lines of #DeepAdaptation, to help those who are now growing into the Great Extinction. On my minuscule scale I am doing something and will be glad to have a longer conversation with kindred minds.#Educate #Agitate #Organise #All-Crisis #DieOutInStyle
(DIR) Post #Ad06A8vaKsB77WYkb2 by hugh@mastodon.nz
2023-12-20T12:03:52Z
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@8petros @breadandcircuses @largessIf we little people can see all this so clearly, why can't the rich and powerful? Or can't they? Do they see it and just not care?
(DIR) Post #Ad06A9x2Www6IKFQVE by 8petros@petroskowo.pl
2023-12-20T12:23:20Z
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It works for them. There is abundance of evidences that they expect us to die out, while they plan to preserve themselves with "essential personel" either underground, outside Earth, or some secluded areas. See: https://annas-archive.org/search?q=rushkoff+survival
(DIR) Post #Ad06xUXGmqvWKEiXWy by ddmgmgh@mstdn.ca
2023-12-20T12:31:11Z
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@8petros @breadandcircuses @largess "it is about capitalist civilisation." Indeed, our world view and how we act, is a product of a story we tell ourselves regarding what has value and how it is obtained.Time for a new story.
(DIR) Post #Ad0P4uFVNiiTHC5qxk by 8petros@petroskowo.pl
2023-12-20T15:55:12Z
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There are several narratives available, but they are unlikely to enter public imagination at large, until the ruling story get crushed, which may be a tad too late.What we can do is to get ready and help people once they admit they need help.
(DIR) Post #Ad0SLfiYxgQazfN42y by herrmannpierre@mastodon.world
2023-12-20T16:17:17Z
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@breadandcircuses Refering to "degrowth" I can't understand why everybody is obsessed with the sign, the plus or minus, of a measure that doesn't care about what it adds up. It's like demanding everyone to eat less calories when some are obese, some lack vital vitamins and others suffer the risk of starving. As healthy nutrition is about an equilibrium of how much of what economy can't be solely about how much.
(DIR) Post #Ad0SLgjJCOcQ8GjAqe by 8petros@petroskowo.pl
2023-12-20T16:31:41Z
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Degrowth (aka postgrowth) is not about shrinking everything, but about turning general focus from the growth priority towards equilibrium - pretty much as you suggest (if I understood you correctly) Degrowth is built around a common sense according to which “people should live simply so others, human and non-human may simply live”.At a planetary scale, a "Doughnut economics" is a way to depict guidelines for degrowth.
(DIR) Post #Ad2dpzxNlWPcGNsz5M by Greengordon@spore.social
2023-12-20T13:25:06Z
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@8petros @breadandcircuses @largess Many people understandably hold this view because that's what the science says, but I believe it is inaccurate. I'm curious what others think. My own prediction is that societal breakdown is already underway and will accelerate and be nonlinear, ie there will be crashes even among developed countries.20 years ago my guess was significant collapse by 2030. I haven't seen anything since that changes that view. What do others foresee?#ClimateCrisis #climate
(DIR) Post #Ad2dq0zBwHSBSHjwXo by 8petros@petroskowo.pl
2023-12-21T17:42:20Z
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Many people understandably hold this view- what view are you referring to? What you wrote is not in conflict with what I wrote - I think we agree, just wording it differently.
(DIR) Post #Ad2drauzpSKNBeWybw by herrmannpierre@mastodon.world
2023-12-20T17:34:44Z
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@8petros @breadandcircuses Then of course, having not enough renewable energy to cover the littlest amounts of what people need but nonetheless criticizing the buildout still doesn't fit into the picture of degrowth.I'm very much for equilibrium. Saying that living a simple life is necessary for or at least compatible with equilibrium still doesn't say anything what simple and how much of what it means.
(DIR) Post #Ad2drbapJvmvHO6NoO by 8petros@petroskowo.pl
2023-12-21T17:48:46Z
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Now, I am tempted to get in technicalities. I will try to be brief:- energy =/= electricity- most of esssential life support needs thermal or mechanical form of energy. - every transition must start from optimisation at the demand side. - infrastructure, developed and optimised for high-density energy carriers (fossil fuels, radioactives included), cannot be switched to low-density sources "as is". I hope this shows the direction of my thinking. If not, I will gladly elaborate.
(DIR) Post #Ad2ljKzrwKIv7lNrZQ by herrmannpierre@mastodon.world
2023-12-21T18:21:06Z
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@8petros @breadandcircuses We can surely talk about technicalities.Points 1, 2, and 4 are true. Point 3 I doubt. Maybe you could further specify what you mean.The other hand is, although it is true what you say, I don't see where there is relevance.We have built a nuclear and fossil based energy system last century. Electricity, heating and cooling, transport. Electricity is produced by thermal power plants fed by oil, gas, coal or nuclear, some even wood or waste. >
(DIR) Post #Ad2ljMg5gpfiL0961I by herrmannpierre@mastodon.world
2023-12-21T18:28:52Z
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@8petros @breadandcircuses Heat is delivered by burning fossil stuff inside houses or delivered from central combined or dedicated plants.Transport is mostly powered by oil and THE most single source of emissions. Alternatives are bio-fuels and electric engines, only the latter being sustainable.The term infrastructure is not kind of narrow, isn't it? so my answer is yes and no.But the central line of arguement is: renewables produce electricity and that can be converted to anything. >
(DIR) Post #Ad2ljNSInaEikWhbAO by herrmannpierre@mastodon.world
2023-12-21T18:35:19Z
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@8petros @breadandcircuses Technologies and their usage shape our societies. New technologies and new forms of usage (aka business models) will form other shapes to our societies. Selling cars to private ownership (shaping our streets and cities) will be over with electric (bc of cost per mile) and autonomous cars (bc of cost per car shared by many).Not the number of existing cars defines how much pollution they produce but how many miles with which energy source are driven. and so on...
(DIR) Post #Ad2ljOAGA9OkwrGhgO by 8petros@petroskowo.pl
2023-12-21T19:18:30Z
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Sorry for the delay - evening chores.renewables produce electricity and that can be converted to anything.Essentially, yes. However, wind and sun can also provide thermal energy.Technologies and their usage shape our societies.For the sake of conversation I will not get into nuances, so - yes.I believe you framed the main problem (regarding energy and pollution - but it can be extrapolated to other dimensions of the all-crisis).Sticking to energy in general, and electricity in particular, we can agree (I hope) that:- electricity is very convenient to transmit and converse, much less to store.- significant part our infrastructure (life support systems) is developed and in fact dependent of these aspects of energy.Now, what I suggest is: perhaps it is time to decide that our society choices should shape technologies and their use? So we - on various levels - review our energy use policies and structure and look for less polluting ways to consume energy? I have just started reading a book that covers much broader area, and is much better scientifically grounded. I hope you may be interested in its content more, than in my amateur musings. :-) BREAKING TOGETHER – a freedom-loving response to collapse
(DIR) Post #Ad2ljP8sWlt5yrd7AW by herrmannpierre@mastodon.world
2023-12-21T18:38:53Z
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@8petros @breadandcircuses but to come back to degrowth aka post growth:if things we lack grow faster than thing we have too much of shrink, simply because big parts of humanity still suffer and could prosper during the next decade, that will be deemed degrowth then? as it would be more of an equilibrium as we have now?
(DIR) Post #Ad2ltUOPrQgFA2hqeu by 8petros@petroskowo.pl
2023-12-21T19:20:14Z
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I haven't a palest idea, tbh. But, if you get to the degrowth website I lnked, you will most probbly find people happy (and capable) to discuss this question.
(DIR) Post #Ad4xWEdGfnvOjUc21g by Greengordon@spore.social
2023-12-22T20:15:18Z
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@8petros @breadandcircuses @largess Sure, I meant the idea that you'll die before things get really bad. That was my original hope, too, but I'm 62 and if I live for 20-30 years more, I think things could be quite bad by then. The climate is already breaking down, governments are responding by suppressing protest about it and becoming more authoritarian. And climate activists are not going to roll over and take it. (Nor should they / we).
(DIR) Post #Ad4xWFSJc0l3HoUnaq by 8petros@petroskowo.pl
2023-12-22T20:35:19Z
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I enthusiastically agree. And I strongly believe that our generation has a unique opportunity to leave something useful for those who will carry on after we are done. Our conversation here inspired me to write some kind of an appeal (see here) and drop some hashtags in hope for an answer.#DeadLine2050 #WeTheBoomers #PayItForward
(DIR) Post #Al1ZoO3PaFm1BbjEX2 by judgedread
2024-08-16T12:27:31.567205Z
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@largess I read shit like this and it makes me want to get a monster truck because fuck you, that's why.Ah, for the good old days when 1 in 6 vehicles was a 4 MPG Hummer.