Post Ad1wclFErCG2qDgC9Y by TheTuzu@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by TheTuzu@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #Ad1PuGeC3kfWfb5liK by BrodieOnLinux@linuxrocks.online
2023-12-21T03:39:19Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
I'm calling out every Linux dev that uses i386 to mean i386, up to i686, stop it. Nobody besides Linux devs does this, its a stupid name for the group. Just call it x86 like everyone else🤓 Um Aktualy, x86 also include 16 bit CPUsNo one cares they haven't existed since the 80s
(DIR) Post #Ad1QdCsMvbOs0L9QbQ by OpenComputeDesign@linuxrocks.online
2023-12-21T03:47:03Z
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@BrodieOnLinux If they were trying to keep the naming to only CPUs it will run on, they'd need to call it i486 anyway, as Linux has pretty much already long ago dropped i386 support anyway.
(DIR) Post #Ad1QmCfZ46iByDS57A by odoben@meow.social
2023-12-21T03:49:10Z
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@BrodieOnLinux I wish we'd just say x86_32 and x86_64, since "x86" is sometimes used to also include 64-bit (e.g. Intel's x86S).
(DIR) Post #Ad1QzHIDBeui4dlNoG by BrodieOnLinux@linuxrocks.online
2023-12-21T03:49:29Z
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I understand why it's like this, Linux initially started on i386 (80386), so as other architectures were added it made logical sense to use i386 as an option but with i386 being dropped 11 years ago now it just leads to me having to have this long winded explanation to say what is actually being talked about
(DIR) Post #Ad1R7m4GeLtTq0IBk0 by BrodieOnLinux@linuxrocks.online
2023-12-21T03:50:04Z
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@odoben x86_64 is sometimes called x64, I'm happy to retroactively say x32
(DIR) Post #Ad1ROnmjWDKC5QD61I by a1ba@suya.place
2023-12-21T03:56:22.741646Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@BrodieOnLinux >🤓 Um Aktualy, x86 also include 16 bit CPUsachshually it would also include your 64-bit CPU.When I say i{3,4,5,6}86, I mean the ABI, era, set of CPU features and -mcpu flag passed to compiler.
(DIR) Post #Ad1RSnRiijsEC4HohM by a1ba@suya.place
2023-12-21T03:57:07.567576Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@BrodieOnLinux @odoben >I'm happy to retroactively say x32and you would be absolutely wrong, because https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X32_ABI
(DIR) Post #Ad1SreJ3wFcZ2ceRKS by ids1024@fosstodon.org
2023-12-21T04:12:37Z
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@BrodieOnLinux @odoben I think it's mainly just Microsoft that uses the term x64. That's not what Intel, AMD, Linux, macOS, or BSDs call it. Not that they all use the same name either.And I'm not sure that makes anything clearer.x86_64 and x86_32 are fairly clear and unambiguous.
(DIR) Post #Ad1WstZL4tXiU278c4 by BrodieOnLinux@linuxrocks.online
2023-12-21T04:57:36Z
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@a1ba @odoben That's an ABI, not an architecture
(DIR) Post #Ad1WywSvDoEDCizoAq by BrodieOnLinux@linuxrocks.online
2023-12-21T04:58:04Z
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@a1ba No it actually doesn't, that's x86_64
(DIR) Post #Ad1XAB1jQHcjYEdR3o by BrodieOnLinux@linuxrocks.online
2023-12-21T05:00:43Z
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I caught another one
(DIR) Post #Ad1XCysB4HMwizVGKG by a1ba@suya.place
2023-12-21T05:01:18.828941Z
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@BrodieOnLinux not always.
(DIR) Post #Ad1XhLHmIm6AvNxHW4 by a1ba@suya.place
2023-12-21T05:06:59.494849Z
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@BrodieOnLinux @odoben yes, which causes confusion. Let's not make the situation worse.
(DIR) Post #Ad1XjrSTejLjHkA1qq by BrodieOnLinux@linuxrocks.online
2023-12-21T05:07:12Z
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@a1ba By the same logic x86 doesn't always include 16 bit, most don't even acknowledge it exists
(DIR) Post #Ad1XnvsPAfp698EIFc by BrodieOnLinux@linuxrocks.online
2023-12-21T05:07:23Z
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@a1ba @odoben Different things can have the same name
(DIR) Post #Ad1XwDiaihNnnXaiJc by matk@mastodon.social
2023-12-21T05:09:32Z
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@BrodieOnLinux The annoying thing is that when the architecture family was first introduced we encoded its name into ABI and non-breakable (at least not easily) interfaces. That's why we can't change it now. Yes, doing so would be more correct, but it would also be an insane amount of work to ultimately change a word.(so even newer stuff like AppStream encodes i386 to be compatible with decades of deeply hardcoded names - I tried to change it, and it ultimately wasn't worth the breakage)
(DIR) Post #Ad1Y4EzRsJAy3kIh5k by a1ba@suya.place
2023-12-21T05:10:51.107045Z
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@BrodieOnLinux yes and luckily it was short lived enough and nobody remembers them now. Except maybe some legacy industrial machines which we will never see.Sadly the same can't be said about 32-bit systems.
(DIR) Post #Ad1Y6IiWzLhOCLMzUe by a1ba@suya.place
2023-12-21T05:11:12.586576Z
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@BrodieOnLinux @odoben can doesn't mean they should.
(DIR) Post #Ad1Y9WB7OfoAodH8BE by nicemicro@fosstodon.org
2023-12-21T05:11:57Z
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@BrodieOnLinux and people think language is a good way of conveying accurate information... smh
(DIR) Post #Ad1YRUkPSHxPagM2qm by izaya@social.shadowkat.net
2023-12-21T05:15:02.883638Z
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@a1ba @BrodieOnLinux @odoben tangentially, is there an ARM equivalent of x32? my phone has <4GB of RAM, no reason not to use something like that
(DIR) Post #Ad1YrhFPbRhzt7Ljdo by a1ba@suya.place
2023-12-21T05:20:02.522198Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@izaya @BrodieOnLinux @odoben there is but support is mehApple added ilp32 aarch64 to Clang for their watches but on Linux side nothing really supports such configuration
(DIR) Post #Ad1ZqvgyVrH0LrRLcW by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-12-21T05:30:38.993731Z
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@izaya @BrodieOnLinux @odoben @a1ba aarch32 aka armv7 and earlier.That said it has nothing to do with the amount of RAM.
(DIR) Post #Ad1a4VsnGh1qMLRfwO by t8d@mstdn.jp
2023-12-21T05:33:27Z
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@BrodieOnLinux I.. don't quite understand the call-out on this one. They gave a reasonable argument and the response.. was this..?If it was unreasonable, or actually deserving.. maybe.. but this was actually quite civil IMO
(DIR) Post #Ad1aKfz9TVUAKE7txo by a1ba@suya.place
2023-12-21T05:36:22.781171Z
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@lanodan @BrodieOnLinux @odoben @izaya it won't use nice features of armv8 :(
(DIR) Post #Ad1aqCJFLQalYOYXZI by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-12-21T05:41:44.925263Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@BrodieOnLinux @odoben I'd argue that x64 is just horrible x86-centrism. x86 at least made sense because it refers to the x86-line of CPUs and compatibles with x as a wildcard, quite comparable to how m68k also refers to a line of CPUs.
(DIR) Post #Ad1b3YGj0mYfQLkDaq by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-12-21T05:44:05.684580Z
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@a1ba @BrodieOnLinux @odoben @izaya Well I don't think anybody is going to make further aarch32 micro-architecture specifications anyway.
(DIR) Post #Ad1bHfUowAk7tS4KXo by a1ba@suya.place
2023-12-21T05:47:08.033100Z
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@lanodan @BrodieOnLinux @odoben @izaya that's why I would like to see aarch64-ilp32 supported in Linux Kernel and the userspace one day.
(DIR) Post #Ad1cTrcfmCGOvt7YQK by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-12-21T06:00:02.502455Z
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@a1ba @BrodieOnLinux @odoben @izaya Is there even anyone seriously using ilp32 though?Like even x86_x32 is horribly niche with less support for it than seriously obscure CPU architectures.
(DIR) Post #Ad1gG6ZzloQz5CYz32 by BrodieOnLinux@linuxrocks.online
2023-12-21T06:42:38Z
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@matk That is understandable, what's less understanable is the user facing stuff that still says i386 (I'm looking at you Debian SupportedArchitectures)
(DIR) Post #Ad1ghmnotV6rr0EFpw by l0ngyap@akm.longyap.name.my
2023-12-21T06:47:52.154639Z
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@BrodieOnLinux have 32bit cpu on industrial machines
(DIR) Post #Ad1gnsw30QIAbyzA8m by BrodieOnLinux@linuxrocks.online
2023-12-21T06:48:48Z
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@l0ngyap True but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything
(DIR) Post #Ad1hBWln4H9uohSfgW by RustyCrab@clubcyberia.co
2023-12-21T06:53:11.307243Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@BrodieOnLinux
(DIR) Post #Ad1hgR3mLa0A5Kc5jM by matk@mastodon.social
2023-12-21T06:58:37Z
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@BrodieOnLinux That's simply to avoid inconsistency - if it's called i386 literally *everywhere*, diverging in one place would be odd for people who know what it means and doesn't matter for people who don't. In the actual super end-user-facing places like https://www.debian.org/distrib/index.en.html we simply call it "32-bit PC" (which I like a lot more, because for non-technical users "i386" means nothing, but they will likely know that they have a 32-bit computer)
(DIR) Post #Ad1pzUPWucQjc3NrXs by TheyCallMeHacked@social.tchncs.de
2023-12-21T08:31:39Z
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@BrodieOnLinux ah yes because x86 is the only 32-bit ISA 🤦 People sometimes
(DIR) Post #Ad1q4Q22cVSfTokQPw by TheyCallMeHacked@social.tchncs.de
2023-12-21T08:32:27Z
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@OpenComputeDesign @BrodieOnLinux it also dropped i486 about a year back if I'm not mistaken. So really, it would be i586
(DIR) Post #Ad1wclFErCG2qDgC9Y by TheTuzu@fosstodon.org
2023-12-21T09:46:03Z
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@BrodieOnLinux I think the most apropriete name would be IA-32 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IA-32) because it refers to Intel family of 32 bit architecture. I think saying just 32bit is wrong because it includes all 32bit architectures (like arm V7). Also it's not Intel only, AMD also made IA-32 CPU (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_K5).
(DIR) Post #Ad24xYEjDR3EDAriGO by a1ba@suya.place
2023-12-21T11:19:37.772984Z
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@lanodan @BrodieOnLinux @odoben @izaya I would for my embedded purposes. :)Again, Apple initially added it for their smartwatches.
(DIR) Post #Ad254341VswZYfxM1o by 1iceloops123@shitposter.club
2023-12-21T11:20:53.555415Z
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@a1ba @BrodieOnLinux @odoben @lanodan @izaya all we need apple make the Ibuttplug
(DIR) Post #Ad2EKuJcBzfqw4MZ2e by BrodieOnLinux@linuxrocks.online
2023-12-21T13:02:15Z
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@TheyCallMeHacked @OpenComputeDesign Debian's baseline is i686
(DIR) Post #Ad2PgOMAnHaHgT0TRo by korgster@clubcyberia.co
2023-12-21T07:50:54.438394Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@RustyCrab @BrodieOnLinux mater
(DIR) Post #Ad2etDkn1dDHsP61uC by OpenComputeDesign@linuxrocks.online
2023-12-21T18:01:45Z
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@BrodieOnLinux @TheyCallMeHacked Oh well there you go! No excuse not to call it i686!
(DIR) Post #Ad3Fn7O3TpochHPpBY by aworldc@mas.to
2023-12-22T00:44:23Z
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@BrodieOnLinux x64 is always 64-bit, x86 is sometimes used to mean 32-bit, sometimes used to mean whatever.