Post Acwl0PTaJaNbPbYc6K by clive@saturation.social
(DIR) More posts by clive@saturation.social
(DIR) Post #Acwl0PTaJaNbPbYc6K by clive@saturation.social
2023-12-18T21:27:54Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
Man, the "dead internet" is arriving@bhawthorne describes his recent experience searching for basic info online -- he looked for the temperature to roast hazelnuts, and got nothing but stochastic-parrot garbage: https://infosec.exchange/@bhawthorne/111601578642616056He concludes:"I think it may be time to download an archive copy of the 2022 Wikipedia before we lose all of our reference material. It was nice having all the world’s knowledge at my fingertips for a couple of decades, but that time seems to be past."
(DIR) Post #AcwmU8kZAO4yB8Eyci by atthenius@fediscience.org
2023-12-18T21:57:18Z
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@cliveThat is bad.
(DIR) Post #AcwmrDOk3FtfFq2FmK by jsit@social.coop
2023-12-18T22:02:03Z
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@clive I think this is grossly overstated.The first result for "how to roast hazelnuts" on DDG is Wikihow. The second is culinaryhill.com, whose hazelnut roasting page has been up since (at least) 2019 according to Wayback.The 8th and 9th results are Martha Stewart and Epicurious, two well-known brands whose pages I would trust.Three of these pages say 350deg; Martha Stewart says 375.I'm frustrated by #AI consuming the web, too, but the AI doomsaying on Mastodon is off the charts.
(DIR) Post #AcwnSRawEP1g01UaDg by Susan_calvin@mastodon.social
2023-12-18T22:09:03Z
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@clive @bhawthorne kiwix took a while to do the 90GB download of Wikipedia but its SD card space well allocated, I feel
(DIR) Post #AcwnbxF1wI4MkvmPz6 by whvholst@eupolicy.social
2023-12-18T22:09:15Z
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@clive @bhawthorne We should call it the Dark Age of Machines...
(DIR) Post #Acwp5GtA4Oq02j5tyq by GhostOnTheHalfShell@masto.ai
2023-12-18T22:26:52Z
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@clive @bhawthorne Has internet archive done it?We may be at a point that wikipedia search is more useful.
(DIR) Post #Acwq1lfPnLwSIPYdbk by clive@saturation.social
2023-12-18T22:37:53Z
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@GhostOnTheHalfShell @bhawthorne Yep yep
(DIR) Post #AcwqVTdfO71l4OuFcG by clive@saturation.social
2023-12-18T22:40:19Z
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@Susan_calvin @bhawthorne I might download it for fun too
(DIR) Post #AcwqnSK31MqcCRIpKy by clive@saturation.social
2023-12-18T22:42:01Z
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@atthenius Other folks in the replies are finding better results with Duck Duck Go, so pointing out that things are not so bad yet
(DIR) Post #AcwsbYaK6xR23WMxbk by username@wetdry.world
2023-12-18T23:06:21Z
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@clive @bhawthorne I found this video yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYPdwNLV0p4Truly the peak of technological development.
(DIR) Post #Acwt3IE8WTgJQnDWoy by giantspecks@sfba.social
2023-12-18T23:11:48Z
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@clive @bhawthorne This is pollution of a public resource. We need environmental regulation of cyberspace
(DIR) Post #AcwvfttV7pitAN6POC by AnnemarieBridy@mastodon.lawprofs.org
2023-12-18T23:40:40Z
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@clive @bhawthorne Maybe searching on DuckDuckGo was the mistake? I got some pretty reliable links from Google, including the Oregon Hazelnut trade association, whose roasting advice I’d take to the bank.
(DIR) Post #AcwwV8N53kVWppMsQy by falcennial@mastodon.social
2023-12-18T23:50:21Z
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@clive @bhawthorne this is some Bartmoss shit. time to federate the whole ass internet bois
(DIR) Post #AcwyAO2XoA2LG2zsFE by chiasm@mastodon.online
2023-12-19T00:09:08Z
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@clive @bhawthorne weird. I tried both Google and duck duckgo with the same query and got quite reasonable sites spanning the last couple of years, with quite a lot of text variety in how to roast hazelnuts but all of them made a great deal of sense. If you roast them at 350 you go longer, if you roast them at 375 you go shorter etc. That's always been the case with recipes. I think there are other queries that will prove his point better. I've seen what he was talking about, but not with that.
(DIR) Post #AcwzsJOwW2wxZCyzNw by alopex@furries.club
2023-12-19T00:28:12Z
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@clive @bhawthorne It feels like we're at the point in history where we need to band together to re-create civilization after a global apocalypse. Start with pockets of people who trust each other: establish trust with your local community and then build outwards.
(DIR) Post #Acx0Y83f51dsY5y6iG by Kay@mastodon.nz
2023-12-19T00:35:52Z
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@clive @bhawthorne We still have libraries with actual books, although even there storage limits restrict how long items are kept.
(DIR) Post #Acx1MfG3uw8RzorkVk by ColinTheMathmo@mathstodon.xyz
2023-12-19T00:44:26Z
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@clive People actively seek steel that was smelted and forged before 1944 ... old warships and the like ... to harvest the low radiation steel. After that all steel has become contaminated.We should download and archive as much ID the internet as possible to have reference material from before it was contaminated by "AI".CC: @bhawthorne
(DIR) Post #Acx1W1hlpUvQDiI4Dw by lispi314@udongein.xyz
2023-12-18T21:58:42.585353Z
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@clive @rysiek @bhawthorne I have my doubts.One can probably arrive at a reasonable index simply by taking the current one and removing all the sites using ads.Sure that's going to have false positives removed and a few false negatives remaining, but it would still be a good start.
(DIR) Post #Acx2vuw1it1shrrtSK by wattdefalk@dobbs.town
2023-12-19T01:02:30Z
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@clive @bhawthorne Somebody please tell me what other purpose this AI sh*t could possibly have besides brainwashing our children to think there are no facts, and no truth, causing permanent civil wars between factions with fundamentally different viewpoints and beliefs?
(DIR) Post #Acx5OlctbvnI8unvsG by negativeprimes@urusai.social
2023-12-19T01:30:08Z
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@clive This has been my experience as of this year. The collapse was remarkably fast.
(DIR) Post #Acx7vGwYuRsURjd98q by drakakis@universeodon.com
2023-12-19T01:58:26Z
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@clive @bhawthorne I tried to repeat this experiment, also using DuckDuckGo, but my first 20 odd results were perfectly satisfactory. Most were from Wiki's or cooking websites and all gave a cooking temperature of between 325 and 400 degrees F with about 80% @ 350. My search was simple --cooking hazelnuts. I never searches phrases as fully formed questions since I figure that's just begging for an AI response. And I use Vivaldi (with Ad-Tracker) and the DuckDuckGo tracker.
(DIR) Post #AcxBJmUrXwzV7T3K2S by Sir_Osis_of_Liver@beige.party
2023-12-19T00:29:45Z
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@jsit @clive I switched to the DDG browser 6 or so months ago. Very pleased with it in general. Browser aside, DDG search results are pretty solid relative to Google.
(DIR) Post #AcxBJnBkyTInGV7Ztg by clive@saturation.social
2023-12-19T02:36:17Z
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@Sir_Osis_of_Liver @jsit I've been DDG-first for over a year now -- I generally like it too
(DIR) Post #AcxDPCn3PpGM1VH9P6 by dragonfrog@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-12-19T02:59:47Z
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@clive @atthenius it can still only search the websites that exist.
(DIR) Post #AcxE7Ypyo1bZ8vnJlA by clive@saturation.social
2023-12-19T03:07:56Z
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Update: A bunch of folks have replicated this experiment and found that the search results were pretty accurate -- they didn't encounter the same flood of shoddy, content-farm stuff, AI-generated or otherwiseSo that's good!
(DIR) Post #AcxQZiMsAEDOGAN3y4 by phwolfe940@denton.social
2023-12-19T05:26:01Z
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@clive @bhawthorne Libraries are already doing this
(DIR) Post #AcxTzfaNQkAZ1Sktwe by Urban_Hermit@mstdn.social
2023-12-19T06:05:46Z
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@clive @bhawthorne@infosec.exchange when I find my search results contain more words than information it is time to change search engines. Although sometimes I find that Google still returns more specific results to a specific question than DuckDuckGo. There is still some good code buried in there when not just trying to sell me something.Examples from Google:"rivets" -poor- all results besides Wikipedia are where to buy"why do we see yellow" -good- most answers recognize that we don't have yellow cones
(DIR) Post #AcxU9kQkGypSwa3XCi by feliz@norden.social
2023-12-19T06:07:37Z
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@clive @bhawthorneDo people have forgotten how to use search engines properly? A simple classic three-term search query "roast nuts temperature" delivered useful results for me both in DuckDuckGo and in Google.
(DIR) Post #AcxgpEsbAPnShfdQsC by samweingamgee@fediscience.org
2023-12-19T08:29:30Z
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@cliveSomething that I have been wondering about is whether we can normalise pgp signing content that we produce for the wider internet. Coupled with good old fashioned key signing parties we could at least establish a semblance of trust networks against the rise of the dread parrots.@bhawthorne
(DIR) Post #AcxvZSHZ4DcqwyFDaC by gnutelephony@floss.social
2023-12-19T11:14:45Z
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@clive @bhawthorne it may indeed be nessisary to "archive 2022" from the way-back machine before they are outlawed and there is no way back at all... having terabytes of storage it's now possible to carry a large core subset of human knowledge around even available offline, but we have to do so before it's replaced with gibberish. I dub it the walkapedia ;).
(DIR) Post #AcxzcN0RXWcxGusiFU by Susan_calvin@mastodon.social
2023-12-19T11:59:38Z
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@clive @bhawthorne it was just empty space in the SD card, now I'll never need a connection to hit random article again...
(DIR) Post #AcyAsFQiZgjVu5weJ6 by tetron@hachyderm.io
2023-12-19T13:11:39Z
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@lispi314@bhawthorne @rysiek @clive This is an interesting idea, I've thought for a while that Google could be doing a lot more to delist spammy sites that clog up search results, but turns out it may not be such a technical problem as a business model one, Google benefits from sending people to spammy sites brimming with ads served by Google.
(DIR) Post #AcyAsZX7pZk4Fl634S by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-12-19T13:37:58Z
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@tetron @lispi314 I really want someone to seriously explore the "no-ads web index". It would probably have to be a paid service to survive.But it also might at some point become one of the few places where actual *information* could be found.@bhawthorne @clive
(DIR) Post #AcyAscAC3IBIPVOHFA by clive@saturation.social
2023-12-19T14:06:07Z
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@bhawthorne @lispi314 @tetron @rysiek Yes!
(DIR) Post #AcyC5jBzKVizvf2y5w by jernej__s@infosec.exchange
2023-12-19T14:19:49Z
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@clive I often look for error messages, and if I'm lucky, the first result is from an actual human being, asking about the same error message. The rest is all generated garbage that contains the phrase.
(DIR) Post #Acyy60ZLWFJNccAi36 by memory@m.blank.org
2023-12-19T23:17:43Z
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@clive @bhawthorne @burritojustice "Informational Necrosphere”
(DIR) Post #AczH840fb0LI08e6i0 by clive@saturation.social
2023-12-20T02:51:01Z
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@burritojustice @memory @bhawthorne 😂
(DIR) Post #AczHEkSefwifOovIo4 by LinuxAndYarn@mastodon.social
2023-12-19T23:24:58Z
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@memory @clive @bhawthorne @burritojustice It's not a big hearse, it's a series of tubes! And if you don't understand, those tubes can be filled and if they are filled, when you put your message in, it gets soaked in embalming fluid!
(DIR) Post #AczHEsxn44NVlhYHRo by clive@saturation.social
2023-12-20T02:51:14Z
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@LinuxAndYarn @memory @bhawthorne @burritojustice This is a wonderfully evocative image
(DIR) Post #AczHYk8JbZEgAowZG4 by LinuxAndYarn@mastodon.social
2023-12-20T02:55:52Z
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@clive @memory @bhawthorne @burritojustice Well, Ted Stevens sure looked like he knew his hare of embalmers.
(DIR) Post #AczJqycgfd22EYyKqO by clive@saturation.social
2023-12-20T03:21:01Z
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@LinuxAndYarn @memory @bhawthorne @burritojustice that is true now that I summon the image to mind
(DIR) Post #Ad0s8gIA74y7omULL6 by ICooper@hachyderm.io
2023-12-20T21:20:04Z
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@clive @bhawthorne @luigirenna This link was on page one of Google results for me: https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/techniques/de-skinning_hazelnuts
(DIR) Post #Ad2CI1prZo2HTvwjaq by rburghol@mastodon.social
2023-12-21T12:40:52Z
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@clive gonna have to establish laws regulating "digital space junk" or something
(DIR) Post #Ad2XyJQ6gaATDeu1lw by clive@saturation.social
2023-12-21T16:43:12Z
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@rburghol Good metaphor
(DIR) Post #Ad6mOFxb8rJ9M42CRM by ikanreed@mastodon.social
2023-12-23T17:44:13Z
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@clive I'm going to give you the same reply I gave them, search.marginalia.nu primarily indexes sites without ads which means the pages it searches primarily don't have this perverse incentive.And it specifically does work with his roast chestnut example search.