Post AcrysQlg3UccfaJGVs by BarneyDellar@mastodon.scot
(DIR) More posts by BarneyDellar@mastodon.scot
(DIR) Post #AcrnfoR3eN44oRRhJY by BarneyDellar@mastodon.scot
2023-12-15T08:59:19Z
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I was never that impressed with the idea of a Two-State-Solution to the #Israel-#Palestine conflict, especially with the West Bank carved up like it was. But hey, if it helped achieve peace, then that was surely a good thing. But now, more than ever, I think we need to recognise that we need one state, free of #Apartheid. All citizens, no matter what their religion or ethnicity, equal and free. It worked in South Africa, and it can work again in Israel/Palestine.
(DIR) Post #AcrnfpYBVMMMGpmu3s by serge@babka.social
2023-12-16T02:32:59Z
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@BarneyDellar > All citizens, no matter what their religion or ethnicity, equal and free.That's already the case in Israel. All Israeli citizens already have rights to vote, to be police officers, judges, to be in the Knesset, and ~20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs.
(DIR) Post #AcrnfqXro1hRM8eACm by BarneyDellar@mastodon.scot
2023-12-16T06:54:55Z
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@serge But it’s not the case in the West Bank, where an Apartheid system is in place. And as for Gaza…
(DIR) Post #AcrnfrSaP94OC3BSc4 by serge@babka.social
2023-12-16T11:31:05Z
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@BarneyDellar You said citizens. The people of the West Bank are not Israeli citizens, as Israel has not annexed it. The WB is run by the PLO, not Israel.And Gaza didn't even have Israeli soldiers in it since 2005, until the attack.
(DIR) Post #AcrnfsHzK2BclTEVjU by BarneyDellar@mastodon.scot
2023-12-16T11:36:50Z
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@serge Everyone *should* be an equal citizen. The West Bank operates under an apartheid regime. The West Bank is quite clearly NOT under PA control, or there wouldn’t be Jewish settlers protected by the IDF there. And although settlers and soldiers pulled out of Gaza, it’s been under a crushing blockade ever since. Israel clearly controlla all that territory, but it does not give all of the people that live there equal rights.
(DIR) Post #Acrnft86CHs1N5c7xQ by serge@babka.social
2023-12-16T11:45:12Z
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@BarneyDellar > a crushing blockadeNational borders exist in all independent nations.Israel has supplied free utilities to Gaza for a very long time while Egypt has, until recently, offered no help to the Gazans, yet you feel it's Israel's sole responsibility to be undemocratically "reformed" and put its citizenry under risk.Why do you feel the Jewish state should be forced to do something no other nation on earth is forced to do?
(DIR) Post #AcrysQlg3UccfaJGVs by BarneyDellar@mastodon.scot
2023-12-16T11:48:06Z
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@serge Mate, if you want to pretend that Israel is entirely innocent and a paragon of moral virtue, that’s fine. But I really don’t think we have much to discuss.
(DIR) Post #AcrysRZJ4yJx9VWts0 by serge@babka.social
2023-12-16T12:08:08Z
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@BarneyDellar I don't know what "innocent" and "a paragon of moral virtue" mean in the context of saying a country should or should not exist. Are those the demands you have of a democratic nation's existence?What other nations do you place under this absolute moral purity test?
(DIR) Post #AcrysSO02Us1gjFNsu by BarneyDellar@mastodon.scot
2023-12-16T12:12:06Z
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@serge For the love of god. Israel is brutally murdering innocent civilians in Gaza RIGHT NOW. It operates an apartheid regime in the West Bank. These are not the actions of a healthy, normal nation. These are the actions of a violent colonial regime. And, like South Africa before, it has to end.
(DIR) Post #AcrysT4XUKtjof9MBs by serge@babka.social
2023-12-16T12:13:24Z
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@BarneyDellar Will you answer the question?
(DIR) Post #AcrysTht82NDmhYmWW by BarneyDellar@mastodon.scot
2023-12-16T12:15:02Z
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@serge I get that you enjoy sealioning people, and I’m sure it makes you feel good. Please find someone who enjoys playing that game with you, because it isn’t me.
(DIR) Post #AcrysUUoC9VOEQRqm8 by serge@babka.social
2023-12-16T12:17:03Z
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@BarneyDellar I'm not sealioning you at all. I'm asking you a single straightforward question.You made an assertion, I brought up that your assertion is wrong, and since then you've moved your goalpoast several times, and made strawman arguments.I'll be more simple about it...This has nothing to do whatsoever with what you think of innocent people, or innocent Arabs specifically. If it did, you'd be demanding the destruction of China and of the UK and be marching against the 500,000 people killed in SyriaYour selective outrage points to this being about hating Jews.