Post Acnr4g3sKWv1p1zgie by jonmsterling@mathstodon.xyz
(DIR) More posts by jonmsterling@mathstodon.xyz
(DIR) Post #AcnHi5hFMBeIGtu7FI by JonathanAldrich@social.sigsoft.org
2023-12-13T04:07:19Z
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@wilbowma @mdekstrand it was explicitly designed to be revenue neutral for the ACM overall and I haven't seen any data that would seriously question that. But if you switch to OA then inevitably costs are associated with publishing instead of reading. So those who publish a lot pay more, sometimes a lot more.
(DIR) Post #AcnHi6volUtm6NjGb2 by tedted@hachyderm.io
2023-12-13T08:32:35Z
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@JonathanAldrich @wilbowma @mdekstrand The ACM stance on this is infuriating.In the previous model, money that should have stayed in the pockets of publicly-funded research groups went instead to the ACM, for no good reason: the costs of edition & publication are tiny, so the money extracted from academia financed other ACM projects instead. Changing the model from "pay to read" to "pay to publish" does not change this basic fact! A truly legitimate solution isn't "revenue neutral" for the ACM!
(DIR) Post #AcnHi7i1sFSmVuHlk8 by JonathanAldrich@social.sigsoft.org
2023-12-13T13:07:51Z
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@tedted @wilbowma @mdekstrand I think the costs of publication depend on what you expect your publisher to do. If your expectations are low (arXiv, LIPIcs) then it can indeed be done on the cheap. But traditional publishers do a lot more: https://medium.com/sigchi/what-benefits-do-traditional-publishers-provide-83b7bd3fcbc0
(DIR) Post #AcnHi8LjUdDqV2rTd2 by djoerd@idf.social
2023-12-14T08:01:46Z
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@tedted @wilbowma @mdekstrand What is ACM doing that ACL is not, @JonathanAldrich@social?
(DIR) Post #Acna0iwpxS4mOZENeq by djoerd@idf.social
2023-12-14T11:26:56Z
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@tedted @wilbowma @mdekstrand What is ACM doing that ACL is not, @JonathanAldrich ?
(DIR) Post #Acnlx7zY6RC2MIYEb2 by JonathanAldrich@social.sigsoft.org
2023-12-14T13:40:41Z
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@djoerd @tedted @wilbowma @mdekstrand I'm not personally familiar with the ACL--to an outsider it looks like a professional organization much like the ACM, though more narrowly focused. Say more :)
(DIR) Post #AcnmwvC5mgXWcasqWW by djoerd@idf.social
2023-12-14T13:51:53Z
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@JonathanAldrich @tedted @wilbowma @mdekstrand Have a look at ACL, please. They're a professional society like ACM. In the ACL Anthology, the reader does not pay and the author does not pay. Still, they're doing all that *I* expect my publisher to do (Excellent metadata, present in all databases, PDFs, presentation videos, code, data). My expectations are not low. With all due respect: Your comparison to arXiv and LIPIcs is a "strawman" argument.
(DIR) Post #AcnnShsOpmvAaHpRyK by JonathanAldrich@social.sigsoft.org
2023-12-14T13:57:37Z
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@djoerd @tedted @wilbowma @mdekstrand Who pays, then? Conference registrants? Donors? I can assure you there is money being spent :) And I'm sorry, but I can't compare to every org under the sun. I picked LIPIcs and arXiv because they're widely used in CS and I'm familiar with them. You are more than welcome to do the comparison to ACL yourself along the 7 points my blog post outlines.
(DIR) Post #AcnqatPe7tsWXgyUj2 by djoerd@idf.social
2023-12-14T14:32:43Z
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@JonathanAldrich @tedted @wilbowma @mdekstrand ACL members pay through membership fees. Volunteers write code and upload papers Universities offer hosting. That's it! Running a digital library really is cheap. (Unless of course you put up the whole pay per paper infratructure and start negotiating with my university library)
(DIR) Post #Acnr4g3sKWv1p1zgie by jonmsterling@mathstodon.xyz
2023-12-14T14:38:03Z
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@djoerd @JonathanAldrich @tedted @wilbowma @mdekstrand This sounds amazing... makes me want to switch fields.I think, aside from those who have made it their mission to justify spending other people's money, most of our expectations are relatively low (e.g. lipics, arxiv are satisfactory), but if you can do what ACL is doing so cheaply, that's amazing and awesome and we should learn from that rather than burying our heads in the sand. To me it sounds like all the value-added provided by ACM, but with none of the incompetence and much lower costs.
(DIR) Post #Aco2anIy29QB38ZPea by JonathanAldrich@social.sigsoft.org
2023-12-14T16:47:05Z
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@djoerd @tedted @wilbowma @mdekstrand It sounds like it is not doing all the things that ACM Publishing does--and also of course it requires more work of the community. But if the community is happy with it, then I am happy for them! It will be interesting to see how it evolves over time.
(DIR) Post #Aco7xkVT6U88nmBNbc by djoerd@idf.social
2023-12-14T17:47:19Z
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@JonathanAldrich @tedted @wilbowma @mdekstrand Please, check it out and let us know what you think (btw the anthology's been running for more than 20 years, it's not like I'm pointing at something new)