Post AcRhRPk902vsFmbmsq by km@muuzikku.produkti.se
(DIR) More posts by km@muuzikku.produkti.se
(DIR) Post #AcD48TUMEYgxwTlOeO by jfslicer@deacon.social
2023-11-26T16:51:34Z
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The word we translate "God" in the Hebrew Bible is Elohim (not to be confused with the word we translate GOD or LORD which is the tetragrammaton - the 4 letter name of God.)What's interesting about Elohim is that it's the plural of the word El - God. And that means that technically, Elohim means "gods." So why don't we translate it "gods?" Well, we do. Sometimes. In the Bible Elohim is translated as God (Genesis 1:1), gods (Exodus 18:11), judges (Exodus 21:6), goddess (1 Kings 11:33), and a few others.This is often confusing to people learning Hebrew. How can one word mean so many different things? And how do we know when we're translating it which one it is?The main answer is context. We have words in English that function the same way:I was sitting on a pool table writing a letter while my friend swam in the pool reciting the letters of the alphabet.In that previous sentence I use the word "pool" to mean both a billiards table and a swimming pool AND I used "letter" to mean both a note to be mailed to someone and the letters that make up language. How did you know which one was which? Context.Context allows us to read a sentence like: Hear oh Israel The LORD our Elohim the LORD is one. (Deut 6:4)And realize that Elohim can't be plural. The construction of that sentence has several features that forces us to choose the singular "God" when translating it.But why would they use a plural word to describe a singular thing? This is often referred to as the royal plural. Ancient kings and queens would say "We..." when they (singular) where the only one involved in the "we." Similarly, the people would refer to them as a plurality as a sign of respect.Bottom line: In Hebrew, Elohim can refer to any god or ruler/judge based on context. Much like the word Allah in Arabic it is just a title or description of someone's role, not the name of the person involved.#BiblicalHebrew #Christianity #Bible #Christian
(DIR) Post #AcD48UhVj8o7hYvPn6 by arraybolt3@theres.life
2023-11-26T17:12:39Z
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@jfslicer I get what you're saying here, but it seems to me the context of the Shema would indicate that the plural is actually what is meant here. Why would someone say "Listen, this is very important. I am one/united (echad)," if there wasn't a high likelihood of them being mistaken for multiple separate beings? The most apparent and most confusing thing about the Trinity is that there are three persons of the Godhead. Less apparent is the fact that they are only one God and the persons are united. If God doesn't change (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8), one assumes that His triune nature was visible to the people of Israel similar to how it is visible to us. (You get to see some of this show through in paradoxes like how Moses speaks to God face-to-face, but then later on Moses cannot see God's face and live. Exodus 33:11-20. It seems highly likely that Moses was talking to God the Son face-to-face, but could not see God the Father's face and live.) The people of Israel were used to polytheism, so this probably looked like three gods to them. The Shema then would have been basically defining the Trinity and the united, singular nature of God. "The Lord, your Gods, is *one* Lord."I can't think of another rational explanation for this passage even existing (God had already made it clear that only He was to be worshiped in Exodus 20:2-6), not to mention the fact that it's considered important enough to be prefixed by "Hear, O Israel!" Later in the NT, Jesus would quote it as part of the greatest commandment. (Mark 12:29) So evidently it is very important, and this seems like a good explanation as to why.
(DIR) Post #AcD48VmrgigV4SRCm8 by jfslicer@deacon.social
2023-11-26T17:21:08Z
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@arraybolt3 I wasn't trying to say one thing or another about the Trinity, only explaining why we don't translate the Shema as:Hear oh Israel, the LORD our gods the LORD is one.That's clunky and doesn't make for good English. I agree that the fact that Elohim is plural is one of the foundational pieces to why we believe in a Triune God.If you dive into the first few chapters of Genesis in particular I think you see Elohim as being described as having multiple forms which is, again, a great illustration of the Trinity. Here's a couple key moments:Gen 1:2 "The Spirit of Elohim was hovering over the face of the waters"Gen 3:8 "And they heard the sound of the LORD Elohim walking."
(DIR) Post #AcD48WdgWKw3iH9O6a by km@muuzikku.produkti.se
2023-11-26T20:40:10.311040Z
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@jfslicer @arraybolt3 Good luck with the Trinity but consider these words of Jesus: “The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.” (Revelation 3:12)Trinity is not the name of the God of Jesus Christ.
(DIR) Post #AcD4xg1POb45a7dbpQ by jfslicer@deacon.social
2023-11-26T20:43:07Z
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@arraybolt3 @km No one said it was. Trinity is a description.
(DIR) Post #AcD4xgl8eZe1rx286i by km@muuzikku.produkti.se
2023-11-26T20:49:26.794060Z
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@jfslicer @arraybolt3 the Triune God is not the one there isGod is not a concept or a "description"
(DIR) Post #AcD5b4p97DqNnXgoO8 by km@muuzikku.produkti.se
2023-11-26T20:56:33.589361Z
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@jfslicer @arraybolt3 the one God there is says about himself: I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God (Isaiah 45:5)the apostate Christianity says that there are three
(DIR) Post #AcD6iUmp5NLaIhhjJQ by km@muuzikku.produkti.se
2023-11-26T21:09:06.779274Z
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@arraybolt3 @jfslicer Jesus says that knowing that one true God is eternal life:"And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." (John 17:3)The apostate Christianity says this: "Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed
(DIR) Post #AcD70fl12EXrXSWhSi by arraybolt3@theres.life
2023-11-26T21:07:33Z
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@km @jfslicer I'm not sure what about that verse is inconsistent with the Trinity. Trinitarian Christians don't believe that there is more than one God, and my own explanation of the Shema shows that I personally believe that there is only one God.To use a quote from just a few chapters later in Isaiah, "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The Lord hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans. I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: **and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.**" (Isaiah 48:12-16, emphasis added). So here we have three separate entities listed - God, God, and the Spirit of God. Obviously God and God are both God from each other, and God is a Spirit (John 4:24) so the Spirit of God must be God. The three are one, yet there's a distinction between them. Three "entities" (or "persons" as we usually state) in one God.
(DIR) Post #AcD70iEVpXKPDWLHiS by km@muuzikku.produkti.se
2023-11-26T21:12:23.387684Z
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@arraybolt3 @jfslicer anything goes if three equals one and one equals three
(DIR) Post #AcD7WB8yOJ9BrJkuRs by arraybolt3@theres.life
2023-11-26T21:13:01Z
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@km @jfslicer Crack three eggs into a bowl and whisk vigorously. Tell me what you get.(yes, I know this is an imperfect analogy for the Trinity but you get my point.)
(DIR) Post #AcD7WBwxOT86ML8pMG by km@muuzikku.produkti.se
2023-11-26T21:18:04.887842Z
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@arraybolt3 @jfslicer Ok. Trinity is like three eggs whisked vigorously in a bowl 😁
(DIR) Post #AcRhRMmrzSKX5MrQDQ by Leaf@mastodon.world
2023-11-26T22:42:57Z
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@km @jfslicer @arraybolt3 I'll be happy to talk with you about the Trinity or Christianity in general, if you wish. I'm not sure if this is the best place or not, but wherever 🙂
(DIR) Post #AcRhRNrA0zMAOxsMXg by arraybolt3@theres.life
2023-11-27T01:04:53Z
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@Leaf @km @jfslicer My Mastodon account is on a Christianity-focused server, and as you can see I don't mind getting in online debates on Mastodon, so I'm always up for doing it here.
(DIR) Post #AcRhROzhmhmlvkshV2 by Leaf@mastodon.world
2023-11-27T01:30:18Z
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@arraybolt3 @km @jfslicer Sounds great! I'm fairly new to Mastodon, and I'm not sure what I'm doing sometimes 😄 What caught my attention was @km talking about the Trinity. That having been said, I'm always up for talking about Christianity or biblical topics. Whatever's on your mind 👍I did like your explanation of the shema, it cleared up something that I had often wondered about, i.e. why it exists 🙂
(DIR) Post #AcRhRPk902vsFmbmsq by km@muuzikku.produkti.se
2023-12-03T22:06:32.247076Z
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@Leaf @arraybolt3 @jfslicer Read Mark 12: “Which commandment is the most important of all?” Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one."There you have the Shema."And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him."believing in Trinity means not believing Jesus.
(DIR) Post #AcRqzdqPyf8zQ9wGOm by Leaf@mastodon.world
2023-12-03T23:26:17Z
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@km @jfslicer @arraybolt3 The logic you present would hold true for certain understandings of "one" and "other".One of the biggest reasons I accept Jesus being God is that when the LXX renders the divine name, it basically does so as "the Lord". The New Testament writers picked up on this practice and carried it forward:No one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” but by the Holy Spirit.- 1 Corinthians 12
(DIR) Post #AcRqzewpsHs6qLwu2a by km@muuzikku.produkti.se
2023-12-03T23:53:36.342312Z
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@Leaf @jfslicer @arraybolt3 One God, and one Lord:yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:6)"to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen." (Jude 25)Jesus is not God, Jesus has God."But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (1 Corinthians 11:3)"For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people." (1 Timothy 2:5-6)
(DIR) Post #AcRsC5y9Ku4i4r3cJM by km@muuzikku.produkti.se
2023-12-04T00:07:03.396526Z
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@Leaf @jfslicer @arraybolt3 for to know who Jesus is read Matthew 16:16