Post Ac1pAVeHXPKxAZMHyq by Muellers_Kabinett@mstdn.strafpla.net
 (DIR) More posts by Muellers_Kabinett@mstdn.strafpla.net
 (DIR) Post #Ac1pAUahTEsTtAful6 by randahl@mastodon.social
       2023-11-21T10:12:18Z
       
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       New drone footage from #ukraine appears to show, the Chinese-made light utility vehicles called "Desertcross 1000" are now being used by Russia on the frontlines.I am surprised China would run this risk. The EU and the US buys 32 percent of China's exports. Sanctions would be devastating.
       
 (DIR) Post #Ac1pAVeHXPKxAZMHyq by Muellers_Kabinett@mstdn.strafpla.net
       2023-11-21T10:15:23Z
       
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       @randahl Sanctions will be devastating for sure - for us! Meanwhile there's not much places left where to buy the stuff we buy from China. They know this and that's why they do it this way
       
 (DIR) Post #Ac1pAX38KUoHVvzeM4 by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
       2023-11-21T10:30:30.930343Z
       
       0 likes, 2 repeats
       
       @Muellers_KabinettWell, EU had first laboriously eradicated many of its industries as part of globalisation and outsourcing them to China - for example mining, metallurgy, electronics manufacturing etc.This was done for good reasons - high environment and labour protection standards - but combined with lax customs tariffs had exactly the opposite effect - so rather than producing steel or PV panels in environment & worker friendly way, these industries simply disappeared in EU and continued environmentally harmful operations elsewhere… and EU just bought them from there… because it was cheaper. The solution would be not to look for another authoritarian and abusive regime as a replacement supplier, but to return that manufacturing to EU. Of course, that would require some curbing of Greenpeace & the likes who are at the same time screaming “no more mines!!!” and “more solar panels!!!” as if pollution and CO2 from China was unable to cross EU border.@randahl
       
 (DIR) Post #Ac1pW38aDroD78nq3U by randahl@mastodon.social
       2023-11-21T10:18:36Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @Muellers_Kabinett that was what Russia thought. In reality, Europe transformed surprisingly quickly.
       
 (DIR) Post #Ac1tIOrH4HR2F6SBLU by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
       2023-11-21T11:01:32Z
       
       0 likes, 1 repeats
       
       @kravietz @randahl @Muellers_Kabinett not to mention Chinese subsidies that were openly targeting European suppliers, e.g. for Gallium, and pushed them out of the market.
       
 (DIR) Post #Ac1tQu0j7z89B1vfkG by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
       2023-11-21T11:18:17.759664Z
       
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       @t_mkdf Ironically, public subsidies within EU require individual investigation about their purpose and that they won’t harm internal market… while Chinese ones, which should normally be countered with elevated customs tariffs seem to be not a problem 🤷@randahl @Muellers_Kabinett
       
 (DIR) Post #Ac1vtaLFXG4uTsKiwa by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
       2023-11-21T11:42:01Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @kravietz @randahl @Muellers_Kabinett yes. Imposing tariffs on foreign (non EU ) goods that are subsidiesed is a touchy subject. On the one hand our companies want to buy cheap. On the other hand these subsidies are  against the spirit of the free market.But the market goes for cheap. Always.In my field it is easier to sue Chinese companies in China than outside, because of repercussions one might face in China for foreign lawsuits. Chinese courts are quite good though.
       
 (DIR) Post #Ac1xOR6m10Cum6px9U by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
       2023-11-21T12:02:42.097712Z
       
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       @t_mkdf It is certainly a complex subject, as the whole point of international organisations like WTO is to keep markets competitive.At the same time, if you want to impose specific environmental or labour protection standards on an industry, you can’t do it exclusively on your industry - it will rather obviously result in your industry folding down under the weight of these regulations, and the foreign industry flourishing.And they will be growing at their lower environmental standards, which kind of beats their whole purpose in the first place 🤷How these standards are enforced on the foreign suppliers is secondary - it can be customs tariffs in general, or customs tariffs applied per manufacturer’s environmental standard etc, or international agreement where the other country commits to gradually harmonizing their standards.The problem is that this approach works as long as the other country respects the very concept of a mutual agreement in the first place 😉@randahl @Muellers_Kabinett