Post Abtqe1KzLOgAXQI4tk by yogthos@mas.to
(DIR) More posts by yogthos@mas.to
(DIR) Post #AbptI1afFJYeBJzD7o by yogthos@mas.to
2023-11-15T14:37:06Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
#gaza #genocidejoe
(DIR) Post #AbptI7hyV2yF9jS8Lw by LiveByReason@universeodon.com
2023-11-15T15:32:00Z
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@yogthos I want a ceasefire, but I think it's not helpful to frame discussion about this conflict as "genocide".There is a larger discussion, about how years of Israel pushing people off their land and stealing it and letting Israeli "settlers" go live on it and farm it, is absolutely ethnic cleansing.But, while I absolutely hate that 11 thousand and climbing Palestinians have died so far in the current conflict, it also is the case that when wars happen, innocent civilians die. Lots of innocent civilians died in Japan, Germany, and other parts of Europe, in World War 2.Hamas chose to go around murdering and raping and kidnapping Israeli citizens. Israel must defend its people against Hamas.BUT, we also need to absolutely demand that Israel's apartheid and land theft STOP, and that land be returned and compensation paid. Those are crimes against humanity.
(DIR) Post #AbptI8jmfo0oLdJ5oO by yogthos@mas.to
2023-11-15T15:49:43Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@LiveByReason it is absolutely correct to frame the discussion as a genocide because that's precisely what this is.Top Israeli officials have publicly stated their intent of committing a genocide, and this is precisely what they are currently engage in.You don't have to take my word for it either, here's what a senior UN official had to say recently https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/un-official-resigns-israel-hamas-war-palestine-new-yorkThis isn't a war, this is ethnic cleansing of a population by an apartheid regime.
(DIR) Post #AbptIAaHo5bS4ksXHk by yogthos@mas.to
2023-11-15T15:49:59Z
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@LiveByReason trying to frame this as some sort of both sides issue is frankly deplorable
(DIR) Post #AbptKRyy5m7sc8Vjpg by adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl
2023-11-15T16:20:45.672Z
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@LiveByReason@universeodon.com Wow, super gross take. @yogthos@mas.to
(DIR) Post #Abri1p13WEkxN0K1BI by LiveByReason@universeodon.com
2023-11-16T13:07:53Z
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@yogthos I don't know what you mean by "both sides" issue, that terms is open to some interpretation.Are you denying that Hamas went into Israel and went door to door murdering and raping, or that they are launching rockets and other weapons at Israel every day?It's true that Israel has superior weaponry, and is causing more casualties, but literally both sides are fighting in this conflict, both sides are killing this.Do you take exception to my pointing out that Israel has been committing crimes against humanity for years towards Palestinians? Do you think there is something wrong with calling for Israel to stop it's crimes, even while acknowledging it's right to defend its people?
(DIR) Post #Abri1pnGczJxmWsWKO by adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl
2023-11-16T13:23:33.466Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@LiveByReason@universeodon.comIsrael JDAMs an entire block of apartments from existenceairstrikes hospitalscuts off food, water, power, communication"Hamas chose this"This isn't a proper war against geopolitical powers. This is is an ongoing genocide by Israel (4th most powerful military on the planet) against a civilian population + a comparatively insignificant paramilitary resistance group.@yogthos@mas.to
(DIR) Post #AbrlgNxXJtQHBri3PM by LiveByReason@universeodon.com
2023-11-16T13:36:34Z
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@adiz @yogthos "insignificant paramilitary resistance group"They raped and murdered people. They are continuing to kill Israelis - yes, Israel is killing Palestinians faster than Hamas is killing Israelis.I am not an expert on how to conduct war. I hate seeing thousands die. I would like to believe that Israel could conduct this war somehow more humanely, but I do not have the expertise or situational knowledge about the system of tunnels and fortifications that Hamas has in Gaza.This is not a Genocide, because it is not about killing all Palestinians. Israel gave a period for Palestinians to evacuate Northern Gaza before they started bombing.Israel has a fundamental right to protect itself against murdering rapists. The war could end today if Hamas surrrendered and gave up their hostages. Israel has repeatedly said that.A genoncide doesn't end if one side surrenders.Israel has a right of defense.
(DIR) Post #AbrlgOgYcVR3RUm0a8 by adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl
2023-11-16T14:04:30.359Z
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@LiveByReason@universeodon.com Israel shouldn't exist and your arguments are equivalent to me stating that America should start carpet-bombing Mexico City because Mexican cartels continue terrorizing, murdering, and raping American citizens. @yogthos@mas.to
(DIR) Post #Abro4GOTIeQwaIp1EG by ryan@rebased.io
2023-11-16T14:31:12.581354Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
Israel gave a period for Palestinians to evacuate Northern Gaza before they started bombing.I agree with some of your points made earlier in the thread but this is official state rhetoric and nothing more. They dropped bombs on people while they were following the migration orders. And a lot of people couldn’t leave, like the people in the many hospitals that have been bombed (at least 4 and I think 5 since I stopped counting), and the hospital staff decide to stay behind to take care of them despite knowing what was coming. None of that is really justifiable
(DIR) Post #AbrpPfJHxLnztfAOZ6 by LiveByReason@universeodon.com
2023-11-16T14:28:38Z
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@adiz @yogthos Israel does exist though. Whether or not it should have been organized is a different topic. Or had existed for 70 years, and there are millions of people there. When a you say "Israel shouldn't exist", you show yourself to be the actual advocate of genocide.I don't continue to talk to the actual advocates of genocide. Bye.
(DIR) Post #AbrpPgCwcQKCgHCqJc by adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl
2023-11-16T14:46:16.064Z
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@LiveByReason@universeodon.com Dismantling a geopolitical entity isn't genociding a people. Israel is an illegal colonizer. @yogthos@mas.to
(DIR) Post #AbrpyyUecoYvWoJsgq by ryan@rebased.io
2023-11-16T14:52:40.225321Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Clearly. I guess we just failed to condemn Hamas hard enough for him.
(DIR) Post #Abs0iA7FG7709CYX1k by LiveByReason@universeodon.com
2023-11-16T15:20:50Z
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@adiz @yogthos Yes, I'm not going to let you walk away from, when I said that Israel has a right to defend it's people against rape and murder, the response being "Israel shouldn't exist". That is, yes, an absolute advocacy of genocide. You are saying that nobody may defend the people of Israel against rape and murder, because "Israel shouldn't exist".Saying "Dismantiling a geopolitical entity isn't genociding a people" is completely a non-sequiter, because we were not discussing dismantling a geopoltical entity. I was discussing defending the human beings in Israel against rape and murder, and the response was "Israel shouldn't exist".So, in summary, you are absolutely trying to justify genocide against Israelis by Hamas.
(DIR) Post #Abs0iB6DbPsvCJ5E48 by adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl
2023-11-16T16:52:42.747Z
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The year is like 1850 and @LiveByReason@universeodon.com is arguing "you are absolutely trying to justify genocide against European colonists by Native American tribes" since a Native American raid just hit a wagon convoy after their tribe got forcibly displaced off their lands. @yogthos@mas.to
(DIR) Post #AbsXok4ZmWdrtI3Kz2 by LiveByReason@universeodon.com
2023-11-16T21:46:43Z
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@ryan @yogthos @adiz I don't know what the IDF knows. I am not an expert on what is needed to root out Hamas.I am not willing to, until I know more, claim that they definitely are bombing unnecessarily. I refrain from judging and declaring it genocide, when they are going after rapists, murderers, hostage takers, bombers.That said, my heart really does break over all this death. I'm very sad about it and truly want to see it come to an end.I don't want Palestinians to die. I don't want them to be disabled by injuries and burns.I see human suffering on both sides of this conflict. But I also don't see that it's reasonable to say Israel has to just do nothing and let Hamas continue to attack Israeli people, raping and murdering.
(DIR) Post #AbsXolQElTYy4lC9Nw by yogthos@mas.to
2023-11-16T22:01:48Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@LiveByReason @ryan @adiz you're carrying water for a genocidal occupier, what is wrong with you?
(DIR) Post #Absjw2RV5404LB1Mdk by yogthos@mas.to
2023-11-16T15:23:36Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@LiveByReason @adiz here's Norman Finkelstein who is a preeminent scholar on the holocaust and Israel addressing the garbage narrative you're spewing herehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeO9jGxnbbs
(DIR) Post #Abtqe0VERpHLwu4kE4 by LiveByReason@universeodon.com
2023-11-17T13:46:36Z
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@yogthos @ryan @adiz This is truly the last thing I'm ever going to say to you:I don't care if you think I'm "carrying water for genocidal occupier". You are and have been and continue to use the language of trying to actually create support for genocide, against Jews in Israel. You are an anti-jewish genocidist.I resist the rhetorical forces of propaganda that you are part of, that exist on both sides, that are trying to push us all to choose up sides and genocide one side or the other.I resist the idea that Israel shouldn't exist, and that it needs to be wiped off the map.I will never, never, never ever join up sides with someone who says Israel shouldn't exist.And yes, I'm well aware there are those in Israel, who call for genocide of Palestinians, and I will also resist them.I don't want to see either side genocided. That starts with rejecting the rhetoric of claiming Israel is committing genocide now.
(DIR) Post #Abtqe1KzLOgAXQI4tk by yogthos@mas.to
2023-11-17T14:07:58Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@LiveByReason @ryan @adiz Israel is literally starving all of the population of Gaza right now you sick fuck https://www.wfp.org/news/gaza-faces-widespread-hunger-food-systems-collapse-warns-wfp