Post AbkPvqSLYDwlNulfIO by big_louse@todon.eu
(DIR) More posts by big_louse@todon.eu
(DIR) Post #AbkPvJpaqlvyCSOGRs by sorceressofmathematics@mastodon.social
2023-11-12T19:41:24Z
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🧵Something about the "capitalism is the ideology of infinite growth" meme has always bugged me, and I think I've finally figured out what it is:While capitalism as a system does encourage growth, it's only thinking about growth in the short-term future. Something that would optimize growth in the long-term, but might require substantial investment or impact growth in the short-term, tends to be difficult to fund under capitalism.
(DIR) Post #AbkPvbYsvdGRBqiAu8 by sorceressofmathematics@mastodon.social
2023-11-12T19:42:14Z
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A great example of this is asteroid mining. In terms of long-term growth, it's difficult to imagine any single thing we could invest in right now that would have a greater impact. Yet asteroid mining projects have been struggling a lot over the past decade, largely due to two factors that inhibit the short-term profitability prospects: the large initial investment, and the fact that selling the resources from even a few asteroids all at once would crash every metals market several times over.
(DIR) Post #AbkPvbYsvdGRBqiAu9 by big_louse@todon.eu
2023-11-12T21:17:53Z
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@sorceressofmathematics It also just kindof ignores that capitalism also goes through long periods of recession, stagnation, austerity, liquidation etc. the great depression, the US Auto Industry post 80's, Japans Lost Decade, when it's profitable capitalists will just shut everything down
(DIR) Post #AbkPvdR9xKGz0T728m by NuModular@techhub.social
2023-11-12T22:02:26Z
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@big_louse @sorceressofmathematics It becomes even more interesting when contrasted to Communist value spaces.
(DIR) Post #AbkPvi3wl3fxLvI49Y by big_louse@todon.eu
2023-11-12T22:09:35Z
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@NuModular @sorceressofmathematics I mean yeah, if you're looking just at economic growth, i don't think anyone in history could beat Stalin or Mao, and even today China's growth has consistently outpaced any country in the the G7 for decades nowI would still say Stalin / Mao are prime examples of why economic development should NOT be your primary metrics, and this has been a major error of Actually Existing Socialism that it's basically emulated capitalist developmental policy as opposed to valuing other things like quality of life, sustainability etc. LIke imagine had China not decides 'the bike is an inferior mode of transportation' and shifted to car based infrastructure, but i digress
(DIR) Post #AbkPviIprhaM66FxMO by sorceressofmathematics@mastodon.social
2023-11-12T19:43:07Z
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Combine these two factors, and any viable business plan for asteroid mining would likely have to expect to run in the red for a couple decades before finally breaking even. This means an asteroid mining project that expects to turn a profit would have to be thinking much more long-term than a typical venture capitalist would be willing to accept.
(DIR) Post #AbkPvk7D7tTVicphWC by NuModular@techhub.social
2023-11-12T22:16:12Z
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@big_louse @sorceressofmathematics It's easier to place Communism and Capitalism on opposite scales of the Set, and Socialism in the middle.
(DIR) Post #AbkPvn9noiKZ9X4JTU by sorceressofmathematics@mastodon.social
2023-11-12T19:43:53Z
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I suspect that under a capitalist profitability model, the only way to make asteroid mining work would be to go the Starship route, where you make a shitton of money from something else and use it to fund a passion project where you're willing to take the risk of it not profiting for a long time.On the other hand, under a cybernetic socialist economy, the long-term benefits of asteroid mining (or space exploration more generally) could be better taken into account
(DIR) Post #AbkPvqSLYDwlNulfIO by big_louse@todon.eu
2023-11-12T22:33:19Z
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@NuModular @sorceressofmathematics that would make sense but in practice, it's kind of all Capitalism, like the USSR and China can both be considered State Capitalism, likewise "Socialism" usually just means like Social Welfare within a capitalist state. Marx used the term socialism and communism interchangeably, if we're talking communism like real communism as in workers control of the means of production that's happened rarely in history
(DIR) Post #AbkPvrtgC5P9qyZ0XQ by sorceressofmathematics@mastodon.social
2023-11-12T19:44:19Z
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and the system could be truly optimized for growth in the long-term. Indeed, under known physics, the only way to truly achieve infinite growth would be to engulf the cosmos and turn off the accelerating expansion of space. This would be an incredibly long-term effort, spanning literally hundreds of quadrillions of years.This means that the true ideology of infinite growth is not capitalism, but cybernetic socialism (with some biocosmism-immortalism thrown in).
(DIR) Post #AbkPvwV355fo824uLA by sorceressofmathematics@mastodon.social
2023-11-12T19:44:25Z
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Capitalism is only the ideology of maximum growth for the next quarter.
(DIR) Post #AbkPwDclPewhEsooE4 by sorceressofmathematics@mastodon.social
2023-11-12T19:46:58Z
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Infinite growth requires a longsightedness that capitalism rarely demonstrates in this context. Indeed, this lack of longsightedness is virtually the same ideology that tech-negatives demonstrate on a regular basis.