Post Abg934FHUXmM7dosqG by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
(DIR) More posts by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
(DIR) Post #Abg61BtZmLNZPG54rY by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-11-10T22:53:56Z
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I presented a ten minute segment at GitHub Universe on Wednesday: **Financial sustainability for open source projects**.Here's the video, slides and annotated transcript: https://simonwillison.net/2023/Nov/10/universe/
(DIR) Post #Abg76z2QauoDDpXzgO by pwramsey@mastodon.social
2023-11-10T23:06:10Z
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@simon Hats off to you, taking it on in 10 minutes, Simon! I haven't that self-control :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfunxBysmg&t=190s&ab_channel=ProjectGeospatial
(DIR) Post #Abg8DYWBh3U2x9AHku by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-11-10T23:18:42Z
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Open source maintainers are often good at writing code but not good at asking for money Companies aren't very good at giving money away, but they absolutely know how to hire consultants - and they often have a training budget set aside already Spend that money on maintainers!
(DIR) Post #Abg8XQRrPG3TiUcE3U by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-11-10T23:19:26Z
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@pwramsey Fitting it into 10 minutes was SO HARD
(DIR) Post #Abg934FHUXmM7dosqG by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-11-10T23:28:02Z
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My closing suggestion was to support open source projects you depend on by reaching out to their maintainers and offering to pay them money to speak to your team! Ask them for an hour over Zoom or similar.Here's a clip with this idea in more detail
(DIR) Post #Abg9dXiXORczx7tfqi by ramsey@phpc.social
2023-11-10T23:34:29Z
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@simon I like this idea—I already speak at a lot of conferences—but this seems like it puts even more workload on maintainers who are already juggling multiple OSS projects and a day job.
(DIR) Post #AbgAUahX1w5cYRioPQ by etchedpixels@mastodon.social
2023-11-10T23:44:10Z
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@simon Unfortunately if the idiot EU changes occur then we'll not be able to talk to, support or even potentially take patches from business with an EU presence.
(DIR) Post #AbgAj24A5Iz7ToC1RI by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-11-10T23:46:47Z
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@ramsey Yeah, this is more for maintainers like me who don't have that regular day job but are still hoping to earn some money on top of the other work they are doingI've done versions of this that are purely a Q&A session, which is great because it means there's no need to prepare a presentation for it
(DIR) Post #AbgAxYrYwZGVFeEBOK by ramsey@phpc.social
2023-11-10T23:49:26Z
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@simon Gotcha. I wish I could do that, but I don’t like the uncertainty of being my own boss. Unfortunately, my day job doesn’t pay me to work on open source, so it can be quite stressful to maintain projects, keep up with my job, and somehow manage to spend time with family. It’s basically like working 3 or more jobs.
(DIR) Post #AbgBAN9PnfKIgwgeS8 by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-11-10T23:49:58Z
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@dbreunig @ramsey I've been thinking about how much I want someone to build exactly that, and also about how much I don't want to be the person that builds it!
(DIR) Post #AbgBJSI43plnEo40bA by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-11-10T23:51:02Z
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@ramsey The single worst thing about full-time open source work is the opportunity cost - if you have the skills to work on open source, you can be earning a very healthy six figure salary in corporate America
(DIR) Post #AbgBiWVbVvxZYoLlS4 by dbreunig@note.computer
2023-11-10T23:57:51Z
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@simon @ramsey No, would be a waste to have you build it. Large VC firms have this very role (someone who visits big cos, gives talks about what’s new, sets up pilots for portfolio cos, and glad hands), we need this for OSS that’s smaller and more agile than the big foundations.
(DIR) Post #AbgC3JD49e24Oaaf0y by pwramsey@mastodon.social
2023-11-11T00:01:29Z
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@simon @ramsey I like this "fractional developer support via slack" model. https://hobu.co/access.html
(DIR) Post #AbgCa5nV2gYSM1GRuq by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-11-11T00:07:04Z
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@dbreunig @ramsey I would absolutely love having a Hollywood-style agent thing
(DIR) Post #AbgDJYGK3c15fSQG4u by bdon@mastodon.social
2023-11-11T00:13:22Z
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@simon @ramsey thanks for posting this Simon! It seems like a major motivator for pursing a SaaS model is targeting an audience beyond developers - e.g. journalists who don't want to run the Datasette serverhow do you see the Datasette OSS/desktop coexisting with (not cannibalizing) the SaaS business? The collaboration + sharing parts are the differentiator?
(DIR) Post #AbgFfB9mqKf8Hpo1vk by fds@mastodon.social
2023-11-11T00:41:51Z
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@simon I think that is a good idea and realistically the best way to fund open source at the moment. Though I am of the opinion open source should be dual licensed so companies do have to pay some money simply for using their work. It's kind of crazy developers are happy to basically give away things of great value for "exposure”. I understand why because it can just be easier that way but I'm not sure it's healthy.
(DIR) Post #AbgFpl0EQKnqMANf72 by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-11-11T00:42:55Z
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@bdon @ramsey yeah, the thing Datasette Desktop doesn't help with is collaboration and publishing - that's where you really need Datasette running on a server
(DIR) Post #AbgPSQuJyFGKug8IxE by jodygarnett@fosstodon.org
2023-11-11T02:31:45Z
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@simon Still experimenting:a) tried asking for money (for a popular @osgeo project called @geoserver) the amount of money raised did not match the time spent (for sponsorship, providing updates, acknowledging sponsors, …)b) adding sponsorship to project website, raised $1000 in 2023 (1/2 was me adding my company as an example) https://geoserver.org/sponsor/c) list consultants by core contributors, contributors (successful PR), and others https://geoserver.org/support/#GeoServer #OpenSource
(DIR) Post #AbgcuKdeAeLeyzy208 by philip@mastodon.mallegolhansen.com
2023-11-11T05:02:33Z
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@simon @mariatta As a consultant, I would be extactic for clients to hire me to contribute to FOSS.Doesn’t seem to be a priority, but it would be cool.
(DIR) Post #AbglDc0cbw4fzZPyfQ by timClicks@mastodon.nz
2023-11-11T06:35:26Z
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@simon Any tips for getting a speaking slot?
(DIR) Post #Abgmw0KBfQx86LIjuy by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-11-11T06:54:51Z
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@timClicks for GitHub Universe? I relied on my insider connections, I got invited because I participated in their accelerator
(DIR) Post #AbgnYNaPd4UXFaBmzo by timClicks@mastodon.nz
2023-11-11T07:01:47Z
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@simon That makes sense. I am really delighted for you that the accelerator is sparking other opportunities.
(DIR) Post #AbgwyghQ5aXve35PzE by beet_keeper@digipres.club
2023-11-11T08:47:14Z
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@simon in this niche field I am in I keep landing on the barriers required for people to accept and report money responsibly (i.e. running their own accounts/consultancy) and also understanding how much to ask for so that they still earn a reasonable amount once they've figured out taxes. Orgs can end up creating specialist roles for individuals that don't fix the scaling problem. Maintainers remain unpaid.
(DIR) Post #Abgxe51KZJ94ws8YGu by lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net
2023-11-11T08:55:01Z
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@simon Q&A could be a thing if companies accept it, but though your idea is very interesting, it also means that FOSS developers who are not good at giving presentations would then be at a great disadvantage.@ramsey
(DIR) Post #Abh2RCLSWXgLfiEEca by dracos@mastodon.social
2023-11-11T09:48:17Z
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@simon Nice to see you :-) FixMyStreet goes more for the Oxfam-bookshop model, open source and funded by the activity of https://www.societyworks.org/ . But I’m sure we’d also take money to speak to anyone about it ;-) Need to be better at listing its nifty features (map still works without JS ;) )
(DIR) Post #AbhGBJ94s629UHkpbU by glamcode@openbiblio.social
2023-11-11T12:22:07Z
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@simon I really like the idea 😎
(DIR) Post #AbhKS8RuIDyh3LqCyu by Downes@mastodon.social
2023-11-11T13:10:29Z
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@simon That's a really good idea
(DIR) Post #AbhVcgCckglG84vIRs by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-11-11T15:15:22Z
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@lienrag @ramsey yes, that's true - maintainers who are uncomfortable speaking in public will find this a lot harderI wrote a few thoughts about that last year: https://simonwillison.net/2022/Feb/23/support-open-source/
(DIR) Post #AbhVyliAx0R3aNDKC0 by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-11-11T15:19:41Z
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@dracos love seeing how many people on your team page joined in the past three years
(DIR) Post #AbhbO7HqN3cBVinsno by cxj@phpc.social
2023-11-11T16:20:07Z
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@simon corollary: companies are bad at writing code but good at asking for money.
(DIR) Post #AbhkYgWD8NdPGNdblI by dracos@mastodon.social
2023-11-11T18:02:44Z
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@simon Not entirely accurate, I'm sure, but here's an overview I made for an internal talk last year of employee tenure over the years :-)
(DIR) Post #Abjg6gfpo0DRSUXiiG by rileywd@mastodon.social
2023-11-12T16:22:24Z
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@simon @lienrag @ramsey the other suggestion I've seen is support contracts. lets corp employees more easily make the case for "we should spend money on this" than with donations
(DIR) Post #AbjubpQQZqrrogqUOu by runewake2@hachyderm.io
2023-11-12T19:04:54Z
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@simon Do you think that as Copilot and others AI tools that scrape documentation are sold to managers as a replacement for this kind of knowledge that adoption of this idea will be impeded?Struggling to see why leaders would choose to do this when this is what Copilot is advertised to provide to their teams?
(DIR) Post #Abk2OIX6MGzHfh1hGi by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-11-12T20:32:20Z
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@runewake2 I don't think ChatGPT or Copilot can provide equivalent value to talking to the maintainer of an open source project you depend on for an hour, because no matter how well that project is documented there will still be useful information that only that maintainer can provideAlso: people like talking to people!
(DIR) Post #Abk2sYHiMFMjDEFtjs by runewake2@hachyderm.io
2023-11-12T20:37:38Z
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@simon I think most engineers would agree! But we aren't the ones with the money. Our leadership teams are spending multi-millions of dollars on Copilot because it is supposed to provide this, I already have gotten push back from similar ideas to "use Copilot instead". It seems like as those technologies grow the emphasis and money will encourage leaning on them - not maintainers. Arguably theres some competitive advantage for companies with technically competent leaders to avoid that tho.
(DIR) Post #Abk8SgYjZQ8V4TGVf6 by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-11-12T21:40:08Z
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@runewake2 my last employer had a training budget and occasionally had guest speakers, my plan is to make the connections between those two things more concreteI've done a few of these bookings myself and they went really well, now I want to make that pattern more common (and do more of them)
(DIR) Post #AbkgUjMLWjxqmCcMdc by 0xnagu@mastodon.social
2023-11-13T04:01:22Z
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@simon