Post AbXsDQHTAPjwsFW33A by f4grx@chaos.social
(DIR) More posts by f4grx@chaos.social
(DIR) Post #AbWxyBXQ6RtXND8N4y by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-11-06T13:13:03Z
0 likes, 5 repeats
📣⚠️📣 Announcing a new home and license (AGPLv3) for Synapse and friends: going forwards Element’s work on Synapse, Dendrite & related server-side projects is going to be released as AGPLv3 rather than Apache.https://element.io/blog/element-to-adopt-agplv3/
(DIR) Post #AbX6471sZvcmlDibSK by Ninmi@raru.re
2023-11-06T14:43:47Z
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@element Very glad to hear this!
(DIR) Post #AbXALChz7Hh776onKq by j3tracey@ftp.crysp.org
2023-11-06T15:29:44Z
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@element Is the new CLA going to enforce a real names policy?
(DIR) Post #AbXAdB0y9Wnd4aGgaW by chocolatefossty@im-in.space
2023-11-06T15:34:56Z
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@element best move!
(DIR) Post #AbXK0TBjeHkTgYUAyW by deciago@mstdn.social
2023-11-06T17:20:01Z
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@element Love the AGPL but the CLA and selection of Microsoft's proprietary git-based social network are very large flies in the soup. Shrewd moves all around.
(DIR) Post #AbXMrwVhYoVfslRzCC by f4grx@chaos.social
2023-11-06T17:52:05Z
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@element but a CLA completely negates any benefit of copyleft, if you can relicense everything as proprietary when you decide so. Again you are not giving me confidence to use matrix. You want too much control.
(DIR) Post #AbXRrRp09yiSTR3qsa by 51rH0n3y84d93r@noagendasocial.com
2023-11-06T18:48:10Z
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@f4grx I'm waiting for the conduit migration tool and I'll be jumping ship.
(DIR) Post #AbXaY9S98485adFDKy by astrojuanlu@social.juanlu.space
2023-11-06T20:08:24Z
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@element The relicensing decision is very clear. Can you explain the CLA decision better? Why is it needed?
(DIR) Post #AbXc7hZMNRW1UP8NFo by migy@chaos.social
2023-11-06T20:35:55Z
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@element Very good decision!
(DIR) Post #AbXeAHQWENaVBdM836 by claudius@darmstadt.social
2023-11-06T21:01:46Z
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@element there's nothing in the AGPL that would stop you from making a commercial offering. Why *exactly* do you need a CLA then?
(DIR) Post #AbXgS3MtRFYGhpGLku by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-11-06T21:30:41Z
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@claudius We need to be able to provide alternative licenses to commercial forks (as per https://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/selling-exceptions); this is the whole reason for the license shift.
(DIR) Post #AbXhjyjDWoaDTwodyi by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-11-06T21:45:58Z
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@jeder @migy erm, we could have done that on the Apache license too? and we didn't? :/
(DIR) Post #AbXj0qiaf9dNW48Bu4 by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-11-06T21:56:48Z
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@jeder @migy no, the reason for the CLA is to let us dual-license the project to the commercial forks (a la https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling-exceptions.html), and get Element to break-even. It's nothing to do with making Synapse proprietary, *which we could have done under the existing license anyway*.
(DIR) Post #AbXkVTynM1zDvOsizQ by joelselvaraj@fosstodon.org
2023-11-06T22:16:57Z
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@element i am not good at this licence stuffs. Does this agpl forks allows you to have internal proprietary/private forks that u might offer as a paid offering to 3rd parties? Or whatever u work in future on top of this agpl forks, will still have to be published?
(DIR) Post #AbXlsmDVoXnP6MR95U by mynacol@ipv6.social
2023-11-06T22:19:27Z
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@element AGPL: Great. CLA: Required to be able to relicense for specific customers, understandable. But allows you to "go closed source".Not sure if it is possible to codify in legal terms that Element is indefinitely required to distribute a version of the software under the AGPL, maybe the one hosted at matrix.org? That would nerf the CLA by preventing you to fully go closed and in turn preserve trust in the community.#Matrix #license #CLA #Element
(DIR) Post #AbXlsnMlXcnAfLm39M by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-11-06T22:32:14Z
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@mynacol this sounds like a really interesting approach, given we have zero intention to relicense further. we're looking into it.
(DIR) Post #AbXm1B7V6pYYeadCYC by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-11-06T22:33:55Z
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@joelselvaraj if you've made proprietary changes to Synapse, then you'll need to either open source them to your users or contact us for an alternative license which acts as an exception to AGPLv3.
(DIR) Post #AbXmGRSocqhdgdsa6y by joelselvaraj@fosstodon.org
2023-11-06T22:36:41Z
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@element hmm. I understand if i make properitary version, i need to publish/get special license from you. My doubt is can you give urself a special license to develop a internal proprietary version for urself?
(DIR) Post #AbXrJKyRi7YCCMsGAa by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-11-06T23:33:14Z
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@f4grx the only reason for the CLA is not to relicense but to allow dual-licensing for selling AGPL exceptions.
(DIR) Post #AbXrP0nzbsLDNsgskK by jabberati@social.anoxinon.de
2023-11-06T23:04:01Z
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@f4grx @element Why do you think they still keep control over the protocol instead of standardizing and working with existing standard bodies. Use XMPP, the Internet standard for what Matrix is trying to achieve.
(DIR) Post #AbXrP1aCicuDnPFNtQ by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-11-06T23:34:11Z
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@jabberati @f4grx yeah, if only Matrix worked with existing standards bodies.... oh, wait, what's this? https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ralston-mimi-protocol-01
(DIR) Post #AbXsDQHTAPjwsFW33A by f4grx@chaos.social
2023-11-06T23:43:20Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@element whats the use of an agpl exception? For me that translates to "proprietary code that should be contributed back if covered by the agpl", eg. shit you dont want to show publicly. Police backdoors for example?You're still trying to look good with a strict copyleft license while doing all you can to circumvent it when convenient.
(DIR) Post #AbXt9FSlXrv87RNBse by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-11-06T23:53:49Z
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@f4grx perhaps read the post. the intention is to be able to sell AGPL exceptions to 3rd party commercial forks, in order to fund the underlying dev.
(DIR) Post #AbY06FwU0RR6PqnF8y by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-11-07T01:11:42Z
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@astrojuanlu the CLA is there to let Element sell AGPL exceptions to proprietary forks to try to fund dev. It is not there to allow for relicensing in future.
(DIR) Post #AbYNVyo4dWIHkI5wdk by joshix@fosspri.de
2023-11-07T05:34:00Z
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@element @claudius so the commercial forks don't have to contribute back? Why? That's just stupid.So you just want to make proprietary forks? Keep it agpl for now to make the community happy, but keep the option to just make it proprietary (without allowing the community to do the same)?
(DIR) Post #AbYPVQlDQ1se3tcjpI by fourstepper@mastodon.social
2023-11-07T05:56:21Z
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@element @mynacol from my understanding, that's what DCO is useful for - https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/12/DCO.html
(DIR) Post #AbYf7tIHHPQAsAsyYa by lutindiscret@mastodon.libre-entreprise.com
2023-11-07T08:51:22Z
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@element what about tchap and eimis?
(DIR) Post #AbZ6dmOx8dTNWeREK8 by Mendy@mastodon.online
2023-11-07T13:59:37Z
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@element why not change to AGPLv3 but keep it under the foundation?
(DIR) Post #AbZKUVGItMQP7Wrb2u by lyyn@mastodon.ml
2023-11-07T16:34:51Z
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@element @mynacol Another idea: something like KDE Free Qt Foundation. But the source code release deadline should definitely be lower than 1 year, maybe a week 🤔, because one year didn't really work out in the end.
(DIR) Post #AbZV4wtAeV9Glp3oZ6 by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-11-07T18:33:26Z
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@lutindiscret Tchap and Eimis will need to comply with the AGPL or procure an AGPL exception. Neither currently support Element or Matrix financially (Tchap stopped after https://www.nextinpact.com/lebrief/71389/la-dinum-va-voir-son-budget-ampute-40-celui-detalab-plafonne-a-500-000 in April; Eimis never has supported to my knowledge). This is why we are moving to less permissive licensing.
(DIR) Post #AbfILuSWo2OJha7DYe by adambyte@infosec.exchange
2023-11-10T13:39:08Z
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@element If the only purpose of the CLA is to allow you to sell exceptions, then you should write a CLA that only gives permission to do that. The Apache one is much broader.