Post AbKm3lzPPA3phIn1ZA by Loukas@mastodon.nu
(DIR) More posts by Loukas@mastodon.nu
(DIR) Post #AbKkPWJOAuvTXJNSUq by kevinrothrock@infosec.exchange
2023-10-31T00:28:22Z
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This new article from TIME about Zelensky’s struggle to maintain Western support and about Ukraine’s eroding military capacity is one of the most damning, depressing things I’ve read about the war for some time. https://time.com/6329188/ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-interview/Some key points: Zelensky’s own aides say he’s “deluded” about the prospects for victory. His confidence “verges on messianic.” The public is still with him, but perhaps (this is my observation) that’s partly because he’s failed to prepare them for more realistic outcomes.Meanwhile, some front-line commanders have started refusing direct presidential orders to advance — partly due to equipment shortages (ie, “the West is to blame”), but a personnel shortage has become even more dire. The average Ukrainian soldier is now 43 years old. Good Lord.Corruption in the govt & military cripples the war effort and scares off Western aid (or gives allies an excuse to disengage, according to an increasingly resentful Zelensky). With these stakes, corruption isn’t declining at all. “People are stealing like there’s no tomorrow.”To cap it all off, Israel’s invasion of Gaza only diverts Western attention further. The whole story paints a very, very grim picture of Ukraine’s prospects.
(DIR) Post #AbKkSxFAV16vvu2azQ by kallekn@mastodonsweden.se
2023-10-31T08:00:13Z
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@kevinrothrock It's a good article, and it has already been extensively discussed in Ukraine. Ukrainska Pravda has a complete translation, NV.ua has a summary. Some of the sources have been questioned, however, when it comes to "commanders refusing direct presidential orders". People in the know especially question the assertion that there would have been an order to "retake Horlivka".https://youtu.be/gWQcxZDRADk?si=QTAB19RBxfnKRBtQ
(DIR) Post #AbKl73ux6ZfiDOi4GG by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-10-31T13:32:44Z
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@kevinrothrock what is overlooked in view of Israel and Gaza and it's relationship to Ukraine:Public opinion of Israel's actions is already low. I don't see any political will in Europe to divert support from Ukraine to Israel either.And Europe is now much more important for actual support for Ukraine than the US.
(DIR) Post #AbKl75w5bJlmTVG0JM by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-10-31T14:10:13Z
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@kevinrothrock e.g. Denmarkhttps://mastodon.social/@randahl/111329937665056351And of course the UN vote:https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/scholz-un-votum-israel-100.html Germany e.g. abstained from the recent vote and the chancellor faced a public backlash for not voting "against" Israel (and for the resolution).
(DIR) Post #AbKl8dddmW3PI5Mcsq by aliide@mstdn.social
2023-10-31T10:57:26Z
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@kevinrothrock I find the ideas that it's pushing kinda weird – "one issue has remained taboo: the possibility of negotiating a peace deal with the Russians". Author seems eager to implicitly suggest "temporary truce" as a viable option without noting that you can't negotiate with a country's leadership that seeks the destruction of your livelihood, peace, existence. Ideas about negotiations etc favour the Kremlin. This article doesn't acknowledge that. #Russia #Ukraine #RussiaUkraineWar
(DIR) Post #AbKl8eidlPeCdsi8Jc by stribeprogblog@mstdn.ca
2023-10-31T11:35:57Z
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@aliide @kevinrothrock For some context into this author's article in Time, he's been decidedly pro-Russian before this.
(DIR) Post #AbKl8fwVDMKWRACiYq by stribeprogblog@mstdn.ca
2023-10-31T11:36:42Z
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@aliide @kevinrothrock Some more:
(DIR) Post #AbKl8gyJO7N5d43g1I by stribeprogblog@mstdn.ca
2023-10-31T11:37:06Z
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@aliide @kevinrothrock in otherwards, keep that in mind when reading this article.
(DIR) Post #AbKl8homF3L4FmbZnU by kevinrothrock@infosec.exchange
2023-10-31T12:42:07Z
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@stribeprogblog This attempted character assassination of Shuster is pathetic.
(DIR) Post #AbKl8igf0iRMwtobmi by stribeprogblog@mstdn.ca
2023-10-31T12:44:59Z
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@kevinrothrock the history of his writings has to be looked at to take in context what he currently is writing. Also the fact he and his family is Russian.More historical stuff on him herehttps://www.europesays.com/878694/
(DIR) Post #AbKlDYkxMO8Db68H8C by kevinrothrock@infosec.exchange
2023-10-31T12:43:42Z
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@aliide The war will end with a settlement of some kind. Given the military situation, what Shuster describes seems only logical. Ze’s own aides are apparently talking about it behind his back.
(DIR) Post #AbKlDZdY5PngKPfsDw by kallekn@mastodonsweden.se
2023-10-31T12:46:27Z
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@kevinrothrock @aliide The article is not "pushing" any ideas, as far as I can see. It looks very much like an honest description of what is going on behind the scenes. Of course, the people interviewed can be pushing their own agendas, but that is always to be expected.
(DIR) Post #AbKlDajG1fxdiPLwlE by aliide@mstdn.social
2023-10-31T13:02:37Z
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@kallekn @kevinrothrock it just seems odd to me to seem vaguely critical of the reluctance to reach a "settlement" without immediately acknowledging the torture, rape, and mass murder that civilians have suffered. it's too soon to forget that.
(DIR) Post #AbKlDbSHKHyPy2Ptw0 by kevinrothrock@infosec.exchange
2023-10-31T13:04:25Z
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@aliide @kallekn As told in the article, the pressure to negotiate isn’t that war crimes have been forgotten but that the military is running out of men and commanders are disobeying orders. I don’t see Shuster presenting a moral criticism anywhere.
(DIR) Post #AbKlDcmWOVlC56ta7s by kallekn@mastodonsweden.se
2023-10-31T13:12:59Z
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@kevinrothrock @aliide Nothing will be forgotten. Definitively not before the war ends. Still, at some point, the fighting will have to end. The Cold War historian Sergey Radchenko has been predicting a Korean style ending, with no peace treaty but some kind of ceasefire along a stabilized front line, since the first weeks of the invasion. It seems more and more likely that he has been right all along, whatever we might think of it.
(DIR) Post #AbKlETlHPrG6Obiq36 by Loukas@mastodon.nu
2023-10-31T13:15:40Z
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@aliide @kevinrothrock Yes, it's hard to know what conclusions to draw from an article with so much information it's impossible to double-check. But what I think is already striking is how this particular angle of news reporting is becoming the most common one for the American press. The American news desks seems to largely see their audience as tired of the war and as wanting articles that support moves towards ending it.
(DIR) Post #AbKlpxusGRoUdM5Jei by aliide@mstdn.social
2023-10-31T13:21:13Z
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@Loukas @kevinrothrock the focus on corruption too – I genuinely want to work out how best to tackle this issue as well. It feels like a fight Ukrainians have to fight themselves and they seem to know that, but asking them to solve decades of internal corruption issues during a literal invasion is quite an ask too – but ultimately necessary. It's tough to know how to cover this responsibly – should it be the focus of international reporting at present or does it simply undermine their fight?
(DIR) Post #AbKlpyi9JFEF6B8fSa by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-10-31T16:00:37.278483Z
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@aliideYesterday I wrote about the perceived corruption in Ukraine rather extensively, based on my personal experiences.Vague allusions to the "the scale of corruption", as Shuster does, hinting it's somehow overwhelming, are simply dishonest and engaged journalism.Corruption is a spectrum that can be described in financial metrics, and it's present just as well in Ukraine as in Russia or Germany. The only question is whether it hinders the efficiency of the tasks of the state, especially army — and there's no evidence it does so in Ukraine.Quite the opposite, there's plenty of evidence that Ukrainian armed forces are not only using the donated weapons extremely efficiently but also come up with numerous ingenious inventions to make them even more efficient than originally designed.@Loukas @kevinrothrock
(DIR) Post #AbKm3l191Dr4gOatdI by kallekn@mastodonsweden.se
2023-10-31T13:29:46Z
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@aliide @Loukas @kevinrothrock Reporters are generally supposed to report what is happening, I think, not suppress relevant facts if they are not convenient.
(DIR) Post #AbKm3lzPPA3phIn1ZA by Loukas@mastodon.nu
2023-10-31T13:31:02Z
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@kallekn @aliide @kevinrothrock 'what is happening' doesn't exist, there's always a framing. This is true for many fields of enquiry, not just journalism.
(DIR) Post #AbKm3mu80HQmXDKJyS by kallekn@mastodonsweden.se
2023-10-31T13:34:47Z
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@Loukas @aliide @kevinrothrock Yes and no. We cannot be truly impartial, but we can still strive to be objective. Some things are inherently more relevant in a given situation than others. The fact that a minister of defence had to resign because of corruption can hardly be irrelevant during a war, for example.
(DIR) Post #AbKm3nevCIrSsLDguW by Loukas@mastodon.nu
2023-10-31T13:39:34Z
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@kallekn @aliide @kevinrothrock to take this example, I'm not accusing the reporter of distorting anything, but when we read that "some advisors" or "some source" say this, we have no way of knowing whether these are representative sources. All we know is they are the sources the reporter was able to contact and to present their response. So for me to be convinced this is a general line among most aides it takes several independent reports.
(DIR) Post #AbKm3oOeSHRPAAcDBo by aliide@mstdn.social
2023-10-31T13:46:06Z
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@Loukas @kallekn @kevinrothrock Editors can also influence how a story is framed. "Everything going smoothly" and "incremental successes but nothing major" and "some setbacks but all about the same as it was two weeks ago" aren't really stories many editors would likely consider worthwhile
(DIR) Post #AbKmXnCXSpKy8wFHu4 by kevinrothrock@infosec.exchange
2023-10-31T15:07:32Z
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@aliide @Loukas The corruption undermines their fight, not Simon Shuster reporting on it.
(DIR) Post #AbKmXpoBlodsEHsNrk by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-10-31T16:08:33.159354Z
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@kevinrothrockBy this "Shuster reporting" logic, there's no corruption in Russia because nobody there writes about it. The only reason Shuster can report about corruption in Ukraine is because hundreds of Ukrainian journalists discover and highlight every single such case, starting from the famous "eggs for 17 UAH each". And then these are discussed in Rada, and prosecuted by SBU and NABU. That's not merely Western levels of transparency, that's much better than say UK transparency. Here come Shusters of our time implying there's no point to help Ukraine because they will anyway steal all of it. So they will steal Caesars and Krabs... and do what with them?@aliide @Loukas
(DIR) Post #AbKmZr7JsNDYromvXU by aliide@mstdn.social
2023-10-31T13:13:30Z
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@kevinrothrock @kallekn the framing here – not immediately mentioning the scale of Ukrainian suffering but rather presenting this as stubbornness. We're moving more towards framing Ukraine as a geopolitical conflict instead of underscoring the heinous massacre that was Bucha (to mention only one)
(DIR) Post #AbKmZrzCe2JrYvzxWi by kevinrothrock@infosec.exchange
2023-10-31T15:16:45Z
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@aliide @kallekn For American audiences, there should be more emphasis on Ukraine as a geopolitical conflict, in my opinion. It's been missing. The emphasis on the atrocities has left the public numb to the violence and unconvinced that it matters to their interests, though I'd also argue that it isn't journalists' job to mobilize public support or try to shape the outcome of the war.
(DIR) Post #AbKmnDLoWSnLaXwC5Q by kallekn@mastodonsweden.se
2023-10-31T15:25:44Z
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@kevinrothrock @aliide It should, however, generally be journalists' job to speak for democracy and freedom of speech. Which are under attack by he-who-shall-not-be-named.😜
(DIR) Post #AbKmoN61m6ws6R6bTc by kevinrothrock@infosec.exchange
2023-10-31T15:26:57Z
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@kallekn Yes, but only my friends are the true democrats and champions of free speech. Agreed? Good.
(DIR) Post #AbKmoNnz8g6uIlfhzc by kallekn@mastodonsweden.se
2023-10-31T15:31:50Z
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@kevinrothrock That's the difficult part. But still, in the Ukraine war it is less difficult than in many other conflicts. In a democracy, the incumbent can lose elections. That has never happened in Russia. That has happened countless times in Ukraine. And despite the war, there is a lot more free speech and independent media in Ukraine than in Russia, wouldn't you agree?
(DIR) Post #AbKmvLcvdVx9ZZoyjg by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-10-31T15:47:31.767007Z
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@kallekn100% my thoughts after reading it. The problem with this article is exactly the same as last year's sensationalist articles about Ukraine selling Western arms or being on the verge of collapse, or surrender, or whatever — all that is based on "unnamed sources" that are very likely to be Russian diplomats or oligarchs.@kevinrothrock
(DIR) Post #AbKmvMWwHGkwNI1i2S by kallekn@mastodonsweden.se
2023-10-31T15:48:49Z
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@kravietz @kevinrothrock Very unlikely to be Russian diplomats or olicarchs, I would say. However, very likely to be people with their own agendas and views, as we all are.
(DIR) Post #AbKmvNFbbCU8bovNey by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-10-31T16:12:47.615685Z
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@kalleknWell, who do you think is forming say Elon Musk's views on Ukraine? Because if you read his tweets, it's 100% clichés from RT, ZeroHedge or Sputnik... There were mentions of some Russian oligarch among his friends and ZeroHedge is a popular RT edition among nerds.@kevinrothrock
(DIR) Post #AbKvAhUHROztLhbjsG by kallekn@mastodonsweden.se
2023-10-31T17:21:54Z
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@kravietz @kevinrothrock I'm not speaking about Elon Musk, I'm speaking about Shuster's article.
(DIR) Post #AbMPDB4kfGy6J4XTTk by aliide@mstdn.social
2023-10-31T15:12:17Z
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@kevinrothrock @Loukas perhaps but in danger of "perfect victim" myth mentality here too
(DIR) Post #AbMPDBsNgkfQmzl6ps by kevinrothrock@infosec.exchange
2023-10-31T15:18:39Z
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@aliide @Loukas In what sense?
(DIR) Post #AbMPDCdWrSNh9DolKC by aliide@mstdn.social
2023-10-31T15:35:45Z
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@kevinrothrock @Loukas the idea of the "perfect victim" often comes up in the context of women who have been subjected to sexual assaults, so accused men/their teams will cast aspersions on a woman's character to discredit them because of what she was wearing/drinking etc - she wasn't "perfect", so they don't have to shoulder the blame for events which were their fault. I think some people could conclude that Ukraine is less deserving of aid amid a genocide if the focus is on how corrupt it is
(DIR) Post #AbMPDDTziOLflwMf6O by kevinrothrock@infosec.exchange
2023-10-31T15:37:50Z
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@aliide @Loukas I see. I think apprehensions about corruption aren’t about who’s “deserving” of what but whether the aid will be embezzled or wasted. That Ukraine deserves the right to defend itself isn’t in question.
(DIR) Post #AbMPDEMESjjYU9jyds by aliide@mstdn.social
2023-10-31T15:38:59Z
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@kevinrothrock @Loukas it's indeed a concern but a heavy focus on it could also influence whether or not it receives any aid
(DIR) Post #AbMPDFChJfhX6sHsQ4 by kevinrothrock@infosec.exchange
2023-10-31T15:43:00Z
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@aliide @Loukas The article indicates that U.S. policymakers already have issued conditions to Kyiv. They’re already aware of the scale of the problem. Simon is just informing the public. Contextualizing that Rostyslav Shurma’s brother co-owns solar-energy companies that are still getting govt payments despite being offline by reminding readers about Bucha, etc, sounds pretty weird to me.
(DIR) Post #AbMPDFyuQQGXWOqNZA by aliide@mstdn.social
2023-10-31T15:52:35Z
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@kevinrothrock @Loukas it also mentions public support percentages which policymakers pay attention to and as it notes, we are already seeing it slipping – no doubt a great thing for Russia. When you put it like that, of course it sounds absurd. I'm not saying not to report on it but describing the ethical challenges of reporting on it. We should absolutely be mentioning atrocities if we're mentioning Kyiv's reluctance to negotiate or enter "peace talks", though.
(DIR) Post #AbMPDGlpUXOhy7jRom by joaocosta@mastodonapp.uk
2023-10-31T16:02:33Z
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@aliide @kevinrothrock @Loukas To me, this article is about one thing: reminding everyone who is not doing enough that defeating Russia is not a certain outcome, and won't be achieved without everyone pulling their weight.It's a warning I often thought to be needed: to tell the corrupt in the west and in Ukraine, and the military allies that they will cause a disastrous outcome if they don't do what's required.Victory is within grasp. Corruption and incompetence would render it impossible.
(DIR) Post #AbMPDHmZjFaX6j5YcS by joaocosta@mastodonapp.uk
2023-10-31T16:06:44Z
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@aliide @kevinrothrock @Loukas It's about warning against what Timothy Snyder calls politics of inevitability, whereby people think history happens because of destiny rather than because of practical actions by people who actually shape events.