Post Ab82sVlDD8kfxPL5k0 by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
(DIR) More posts by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
(DIR) Post #Ab68yey26VxheqjOlc by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2023-10-24T14:39:22Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
What the heck is happening, literally all the #RICO charges against #Trump's acolytes in connection with the #Georgia case seem to be droppingYesterday it was #KennethChesebro, today it's #JennaEllis https://apnews.com/article/jenna-ellis-plea-deal-georgia-election-case-c4dbacd3e4bbb5415ebd3d42d8fa3128I don't like being hyperbolic or dramatic, but it seems like #FaniWillis' case is falling apart before our very eyes
(DIR) Post #Ab69iUmcIhUrORFPXc by midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com
2023-10-24T14:47:39.848658Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I think the RICO charges were never going to fly and were just used to get a plea. Classic prosecutor move when you want to get a win.
(DIR) Post #Ab6AoYXzJpFGl6rJce by EvilSandmich@poa.st
2023-10-24T14:59:58.186901Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@realcaseyrollins Has the government ever used RICO to go after an actual criminal.
(DIR) Post #Ab6BmHXffkFXOSBqjY by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2023-10-24T15:10:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@midway I mean, if that's the case, what was #FaniWillis trying to get #trump on? the #RICO charges against him have no standing now. They tryna get him on felony counts of false statements or false filings like the others? Seems pretty minor and petty to me.
(DIR) Post #Ab6CGplezEoyEJIlUW by midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com
2023-10-24T15:16:16.739034Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
By dropping the charges she will get them testify against Trump who she really wants. I’d be willing to bet that is a part of these plea deals. I still think the case is crap but it doesn’t matter. Her ultimate goal is to stop him from getting elected by hindering his campaign. She can likely find a jury in Fulton County to get a conviction, then the appeals will take years and I think it will, ultimately, get overturned. But the Dems have their talking points and that’s all that matters. Had Trump not run, I don’t think most of these cases would even be brought at all. It’s all just election theater.
(DIR) Post #Ab6CdeGNvTZXD4YGh6 by chiclet@infosec.exchange
2023-10-24T15:20:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@realcaseyrollins I'm not sure, but aren't racketeering (RICO) cases actually super rare considering how few actual mob cases there were since the 1980s.I'd have to look back at the legal history of prosecuting crime families. But I seem to remember this being common for the prosecution of lower level criminals (Capos and below).The prosecutions real target is the highest level person, the crime boss.The racketeering charges are actually for the entire conspiracy. Everybody gets charged. That way, if for some reason the mob boss were to escape Justice, the highest level co-conspirator will take the biggest indictment.Prosecutors no it's also a huge incentive for the lower level criminals to turn on higher level ones. That's why they offer these super generous plea deals. Not because they suddenly realized they have a week case... But because they have a real target that does not include these lower level people.If the prosecution's case was really turning out to be weak, they would shift focus just to get convictions for the lower level guys, but then ignore the big fish.
(DIR) Post #Ab6EFq9mFrLf3TEhpw by Pantangelini@noagendasocial.com
2023-10-24T15:15:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@realcaseyrollins They want statements saying trump tried to cause an insurrection. It's not about putting him in jail, it's about getting him off the ballot.
(DIR) Post #Ab6EFqypC4BJbn7TP6 by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2023-10-24T15:38:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Pantangelini But wait I thought that this specific case was about a "false elector slates" in #Georgia. This has nothing to do with #Jan6.
(DIR) Post #Ab6EI4hv7uemlKGvDM by chiclet@infosec.exchange
2023-10-24T15:38:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@realcaseyrollins I'm not sure what you mean by RICO charges not having any standing?The plea deals from other defendants don't change the standing for charges for Trump.When a prosecutor offers a plea deal, that does not suggest to the Court that's the charges were somehow invalid.Sure, the defense might make that argument in the court of public opinion, which doesn't actually matter.Just like the argument that, "because other people have not been prosecuted for (what I see as) similar things, then it's selective prosecution".Prosecutors actually have broad discretion about whom they prosecute. Anyone willing to turn witness, gets a pass. That's the plea deal. And getting people to take that deal does not diminish the strength of the indictment.
(DIR) Post #Ab6EOvkQpuC30BiQdM by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2023-10-24T15:40:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@midway > By dropping the charges she will get them testify against Trump who she really wants. I’d be willing to bet that is a part of these plea deals.Well IDK. #KennethChesebro's lawyer #ScottGrubman heavily insinuated that any testimony he gave would benefit #Trump, not hurt him, and I wouldn't be shocked if the case is the same for #JennaEllis. From her #AFR show I'd be shocked if she turned against #Trump, but you never know with some people.
(DIR) Post #Ab6EXHU1uMrMjK1dz6 by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2023-10-24T15:41:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@chiclet Yes but #FanniWillis' challenge will be finding someone willing to perjure themselves and say that #Trump planned some sort of election scheme in #Georgia. We basically know that #KennethChesebro will not do this, I would not be surprised if #JennaEllis would not do this either.
(DIR) Post #Ab6EicArJwEe5RSlCi by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2023-10-24T15:43:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@chiclet > I'm not sure what you mean by RICO charges not having any standing?This is based on the fact that #FanniWillis was presumably basing a lot of her #RICO charges on the predicate that #Trump orchestrated some sort of election plot in #Georgia, but basically according to #ScottGrubman, his lawyer, #KennethChesebro, the person presumably in charge of this plot, refused to testify that there was any plot, as well as that #Trump orchestrated it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS6hju3TqUc
(DIR) Post #Ab6GSZWDcrBV7rvpDc by chiclet@infosec.exchange
2023-10-24T16:03:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@realcaseyrollins That's not how racketeering trials actually go. It's not like law and order.Prosecutors are not really expecting for a witness to drop a bombshell confession or a direct accusation from a flipped witness. Michael Cohen is actually the only one that plays out like a TV trope witness.The prosecution's challenge is to get all the witnesses corroborating the same basic facts so that they are undeniable. The witness won't have to perjure themselves, and won't have to actually accuse Trump of anything.When a jury sees four people who have turned states witness, all corroborating and telling the same narrative. The prosecutor makes a convincing case that the facts are undisputable. So when the defense attempts to dispute the facts, it doesn't work for the jury.This case is a very, fact-based, case. It really doesn't depend on eyewitness testimony as a lynchpin.
(DIR) Post #Ab6HatPvcwmx6wWMjY by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2023-10-24T16:15:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@chiclet Interesting. I did not know this.
(DIR) Post #Ab6IrfD1o0SNvG31hA by chiclet@infosec.exchange
2023-10-24T16:30:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@realcaseyrollins An important thing to know about all this... The prosecutors know exactly what the witness will say before the plea deal is offered. They are already deposed on camera before they sign.Being on the stand in front of the jury, is where they repeat what they've already said to the prosecutors.These defendants also have their own lawyers who have read, understood and agreed to the plea deal.And contrary to TV, if a witness understand where to rescind or divert from deposition testimony, they would be charged with perjury and lose their plea deal. Which is why it really doesn't happen in real life.But again, I would not expect bombshells, prejudice accusations or anything we don't already know. Just confirming and corroborating who said what, and when. And just confirming those facts is enough to convince a jury.
(DIR) Post #Ab6JQgVWyCEA5KOxRg by midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com
2023-10-24T16:36:29.759277Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
This will depend on how smart the prosecutor is. You generally don’t cut this kind of a deal unless you know what the witness is going to say on the stand. That being said, I don’t have much faith in the intelligence of this particular prosecutor.
(DIR) Post #Ab6KwM8eKww88GMh8K by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2023-10-24T16:53:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@midway > You generally don’t cut this kind of a deal unless you know what the witness is going to say on the stand.#ScottGrubman did say he'd be surprised if #KennethChesebro would be asked to take the stand by the prosecution at all. In fact, he heavily insinuated that it'd be the defense who would be most likely to ask him to take the stand.
(DIR) Post #Ab6LbSmSXwl2baaSw4 by midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com
2023-10-24T17:00:51.221124Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
If there’s no deal for him to take the stand for her, then she knew the RICO charges were crap and just went to a cheap win. I suggest following Andrew McCarthy’s writings on this. He’s not a Trumpista but has many years of prosecution experience, including being the prosecutor for KSM on the first WTC bombing. He had good insight on how prosecutors think and what they do.
(DIR) Post #Ab6k87KJjLMoWVWl3Q by midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com
2023-10-24T21:35:40.219929Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
BTW: here’s his latesthttps://www.nationalreview.com/2023/10/jenna-ellis-guilty-plea-underscores-the-absurdity-of-da-fani-williss-rico-case/?bypass_key=MW9OM2k3cXdlUzhXa3M4cnVhaEtkdz09OjpNVXBEZVVSdFZXeFNVVVpwVGpOUmRtOXZWV2d2UVQwOQ%3D%3D
(DIR) Post #Ab6tZVxDApjqJGrIY4 by BobApril@c.im
2023-10-24T23:21:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@realcaseyrollins @chiclet Your contention here seems to be based on the assumption that Trump is, in fact, innocent. The evidence already available to the public does not seem to support that assumption. Taking the public statements of lawyers who are vigorously defending their clients in the media at face value seems a risky way to reach any conclusions. We already know that several of the lawyers who have been indicted made broad claims in the media but then sharply limited, dropped, or even contradicted those claims in court, while under threat of perjury. It seems likely that the lawyers those lawyers have now hired might do the same sort of thing. https://archive.ph/ve1Oo
(DIR) Post #Ab82sVlDD8kfxPL5k0 by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2023-10-25T12:40:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@midway Thanks!
(DIR) Post #Ab832PnaEPTcMZAegK by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2023-10-25T12:42:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@BobApril @chiclet No, it's not, it's based on the fact that #KennethChesebro's lawyer #ScottGrubman says that he Kenneth doesn't believe that #Trump did what #FaniWillis is trying to nail him on. Presuming that Grubman isn't lying here, that's a big problem for Fani, especially if #KennethChesebro is asked to take up the stand by either side.
(DIR) Post #Ab8AWXs9TfKJlmccue by chiclet@infosec.exchange
2023-10-25T14:06:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@realcaseyrollins @BobApril "Kenneth doesn't believe that #Trump did what #FaniWillis is trying to nail him on"That's not how witnesses work.First, he is the prosecutor's witness, and his plea deal means he will testify. He will take the stand under direct examination of the prosecution and be cross-examined by the defense.Any decent lawyer for the prosecution will not simply ask, "is the defendent guilty?" or "do you believe he it?", and would object SPECULATION or CALL FOR SPECULATION before the defense counsel could even try to ask such a question.The judge will likely sustain such an objection, because witnesses testify to simple facts, not to things they cannot have direct knowledge of. And the jury would be told to disregard.Again, this is not a case hinging on witnessing the crimes being charged.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Donald_Trump_Indictment_in_Georgia.pdfLook at the charges. Cheseboro didn't directly witness the alleged crimes. The evidence is an extensive paper trail and the recording of a "perfect" phone call.Remember, as Mark said already, do not take "public statements of lawyers who are vigorously defending their clients in the media at face value".Scott Grubman is not trying to convince a Court, he's trying to convince the court of public opinion. It is not for the trial, it's to help the narrative of being unfairly persecuted. "look, even the prosecutor's witness believes he's innocent", is not something that works in court for racketeering cases. The whole point of RICO is that witnesses may have been coerced and intimidated.
(DIR) Post #Ab8EJfQYTdFDFjpQpc by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2023-10-25T14:48:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@chiclet @BobApril > because witnesses testify to simple facts, not to things they cannot have direct knowledge of.Problem is, according to #KennethChesebro's lawyer #ScottGrubman, the facts that he has knowledge of don't line up with #FaniWillis' narrative.> Remember, as Mark said already, do not take "public statements of lawyers who are vigorously defending their clients in the media at face value".Exactly. #ScottGrubman could be lying here, as I've mentioned before.> It is not for the trial, it's to help the narrative of being unfairly persecuted.I mean, you don't even need that to establish that claim though, it's pretty obvious. Not sure why that's your conclusion, what #ScottGrubman was angling at is that #FanisWillis is either misguided, rushed, or incompetent, and the plea deal doesn't really make sense from the prosecution's POV.
(DIR) Post #Ab8H34UyJETZwvflOi by BobApril@c.im
2023-10-25T15:19:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@realcaseyrollins @chiclet You acknowledge that Grubman could be lying...but then you seem to be basing your entire argument on his statements to the press. I personally don't find it at all obvious that Trump and the rest of those covered in the RICO indictment are being unfairly persecuted. By all means, though, feel free to keep rooting your analysis in that as a foundation. It will be all the more entertaining to see how far you're willing to go into a fantasy world to maintain that illusion.
(DIR) Post #Ab8Humbr2Ibq6aVHRg by chiclet@infosec.exchange
2023-10-25T15:28:54Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@realcaseyrollins @BobApril "the facts that he has knowledge of don't line up with #FaniWillis' narrative""what #ScottGrubman was angling at is that #FanisWillis is either misguided, rushed, or incompetent, and the plea deal doesn't really make sense from the prosecution's POV."I guess we will see in court. #FaniWillis has tried, and won several RICO cases before. It does not appear that Grubman has ever had a RICO case. But he does have a history of blustering.Remember, this whole 2020 election mess was spawned because these lawyers would say one thing in front of TV cameras, but did not dare make such claims in a court of law.
(DIR) Post #Ab8WCWGLwzXJyenXBQ by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2023-10-25T18:08:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@BobApril @chiclet > You acknowledge that Grubman could be lying...but then you seem to be basing your entire argument on his statements to the press.Yes? That doesn't make me wrong. If #ScottGrubman is telling the truth, my analysis regarding #KennethChesebro is correct, but it's invalid if not.Like someone else said in this thread, at the end of the day, we'll just need to wait and see what's said in court to know for sure.