Post Ab4ScgVBKLhgoW7Csq by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
(DIR) More posts by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
(DIR) Post #Ab4OPyprS7sa5pTTzU by trevorflowers@machines.social
2023-10-23T00:01:38Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
As a professional coder who also trained as a machinist I think it's worth explaining what CEOs mean when they say that they can't make goods in the US because there aren't enough machinists, engineers, suppliers, etc.In Seattle, a coder with a few years of experience and a few management skills can easily earn $200k/y. A good machinist with the same years of experience and solid management skills earns maybe $75k/y. Of course there are exceptions on both sides, but this is the trend. /thread
(DIR) Post #Ab4OPzi6CTGSo2qnWy by trevorflowers@machines.social
2023-10-23T00:07:11Z
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Since the 70s the US has transitioned from treating the trades as a valid career path comparable with knowledge work to treating the trades as the also-ran category for people who couldn't get into or afford college. We defunded many shop classes in high schools and we amplified the message that after high school *all* of the smart kids go to a university to study some sort of knowledge work.
(DIR) Post #Ab4OQ0X98g67MMjZ68 by trevorflowers@machines.social
2023-10-23T00:15:11Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
So what CEOs mean when they say that the US doesn't have enough machinists, engineers, automation experts, etc for manufacturing is that for decades they've avoided paying taxes for schools that teach the trades and they've avoided paying salaries competitive with expert knowledge work and they also don't like the direct consequences of their actions.
(DIR) Post #Ab4OQ2GCidjYiOp3y4 by trevorflowers@machines.social
2023-10-23T00:20:29Z
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If a CEO complains about the US labor force and is not in the same breath proposing new taxes for trades training and raising salaries for their existing workforce then, my friends, they're blowing smoke up your skirt. Don't give them your time or your money.
(DIR) Post #Ab4OQ3l59K1lMSHEjg by trevorflowers@machines.social
2023-10-23T00:57:16Z
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The solution (as much as there is one that can be written in a toot :-) I think would be to take a longer view than we usually do and figure out how to re-popularize and effectively re-fund trades training for high-school and beyond. We do know how to do this as there are school systems in the US who have held on to this capability despite low enthusiasm from most people. I hope that we can learn from their example and maybe in a decade or so become a more balanced workforce.
(DIR) Post #Ab4OVv8i6hcGMr7jSi by mia@freespeechextremist.com
2023-10-23T18:24:03.274388Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@trevorflowers Thank goodness for dead communists.
(DIR) Post #Ab4ScgVBKLhgoW7Csq by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2023-10-23T19:10:05.310798Z
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@mia @trevorflowers This list is incomplete; you can help by adding to it.
(DIR) Post #Ab4aK9fhRyhZPfi6hk by JulieSqveakaroo@dragon.style
2023-10-23T02:02:26Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@trevorflowers I've mostly been a shop rat/machinist for about 30 years now. A big modern issue with training on the job is that a lot of shops simply don't.They train their workers to push button - get part, do a light inspection on the part if it's batch work, but it's all centered around pieces per hour and not actually learning. If an insert tool starts chipping out and breaking far more than normal for a given job, the worker doesn't ask why is it doing this, because that's not their job, it's for the engineers to fix... and that's a huge difference between how trade jobs used to be.You were taught, back then, the why. Multiple, possible whys. What else to notice and look for. Why different speeds and feeds mattered, how to check the alignment of the tool holders, how to look for warning signs before there's an actual issue.Now... push button, get part, change inserts when the chart tells you to. Don't change the programs, that's for the engineers. It's cheaper for the companies, because they can keep push-button operators pay low. The entire way we look at trade jobs needs reviewing. We used to be far more skilled, all around.