Post Ab3OnTlsPF5ZXar8LI by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
(DIR) More posts by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
(DIR) Post #Ab2OxRbKGxWvUVxBoW by ellenor2000@mastodon.top
2023-10-22T07:00:30Z
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@lispi314 I'm going to inject you with so much Usenet that you shit yourself. ^L
(DIR) Post #Ab2OxSW2s4tsKQUUDo by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-22T07:17:57Z
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@lispi314 @ellenor2000 viz asynchrony do on-and-off-ly federating instances have any particularly interesting interactions?
(DIR) Post #Ab2OxTmk9TqqGVJKt6 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-22T19:19:29Z
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@lispi314> Usenet is your classical example. Use UUCP (NNCP now) or mailed floppies to update your spool. It's supportedWhat about printing them and tying them to pigeon's legs? : P @screwtape @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab2PBmIG8RVTios11E by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-22T19:21:59Z
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@lispi314> Messages and identity alike largely weren't attached to any particular instance (a major flaw in the ActivityPub model)Serious question, can spam, flooding etc be prevented without tying identities to domain names (and thus to instance)? @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab2PiB7lLnp602PV4q by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-22T19:27:56Z
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@lispi314> SSB is able to do this and "pubs" (servers) are just conveniencesTrue. But SSB has so many baked in limitations it's all but abandoned, and the race is on the crown its replacement;https://github.com/ssbc/ssb-db/issues/202?notification_referrer_id=MDE4Ok5vdGlmaWNhdGlvblRocmVhZDMzMDQzNzg5ODozMTMzMTY%3D#issuecomment-1763547803 @screwtape @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab2Q2J5RSJVSUEvGj2 by smallcircles@social.coop
2023-10-22T07:52:16Z
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@lispi314 you are right. The challenge on the #Fediverse is to evolve to better practices and protocol improvements. And it is a huge challenge, as in our grassroots ecosystem everyone does what they want. On one hand that's good and provides resilience, OTOH that gives evolution at glacial pace.There's currently no corporations that take matters in their own hand with paid workforce, and that too is fantastic. But it means we depend on volunteers, spare time and collab to see improvements.
(DIR) Post #Ab2Q2JlcvTFab4exTk by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-22T19:31:35Z
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@smallcircles>.There's currently no corporations that take matters in their own hand with paid workforceWell, there's Meta...@lispi314
(DIR) Post #Ab3Mi2YFyssblRlRSq by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-22T22:19:22Z
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@lispi314> I'm fond of "server-centric" as it more directly suggests it's a problemThat suggests we use servers because we like them. We use servers because they solve problems that no P2P alternative has yet been able to solve at scale. Every P2P network so far solves one, or some, but at the expense on being structurally unable to solve the others.@screwtape @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab3Mi4k1q5U6YXHs5g by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-23T06:29:00Z
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@lispi314> Servers really only solve issues by adding a bunch of new ones insteadNo question. So people will flock to P2P networks when they can solve the problems servers solve for them at present.@screwtape @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab3Mi5tHZATs7Wcm9Y by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-22T22:20:48Z
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@lispi314I've been watching the P2P space for quarter of a century. The majority of personal computers being mobiles with highly intermittent connectivity has only added to the challenges. I live in hope, but I'm not holding my breath.@screwtape @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab3NKuDKug7pCSVlRo by ellenor2000@mastodon.top
2023-10-23T00:54:07Z
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@lispi314 @strypey @screwtape what about a letter-sized QR code?
(DIR) Post #Ab3NLWBBl6zCwnnaNM by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-23T01:37:04Z
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@ellenor2000 @lispi314 to take another stab, are we just describing (or circumscribing, maybe just scribing) 90s style cluster computing? (Ie there are a variety of clusters. Within a cluster, there is low latency communication, but access to other clusters is high latency / intermittent).@strypey
(DIR) Post #Ab3NLsNLEbmNmrebNA by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-23T06:35:59Z
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@lispi314> clusters have an annoying tendency to correlate with geographyThat's a feature, not a bug. Minds are embedded in environment and culture, just as they are embedded in bodies. A tendency to cluster geographical online is both expected and unavoidable.@screwtape @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab3NTpQE6E1EwZnMoa by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-22T22:15:53Z
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@lispi314> corposcum... are largely the reason why things have gotten so bad100%. I'm not saying Meta's participation is a good thing, but it's with remembering it is a thing.
(DIR) Post #Ab3OR7Kf9XmdZpSpV2 by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-23T06:48:20Z
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@strypey @lispi314 @ellenor2000 yes, this is one of the key points of veilid. Currently, making a website for your friends involves an expensive amazonalike monthly bill, and more and more and more SaaSSs. With #veilid, it's a distributed hash table (like IPFS but made with little purchase for cloudflare to get their hooks into). So community tools are about community, not harvesting a monthly tribute to Bezos.
(DIR) Post #Ab3OnTlsPF5ZXar8LI by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-23T06:51:48Z
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@strypey Providing geographical information to scrapers sucks though. There is no way for your current location to be anonymous ("anonymous metadata collection" - your precise location, including trips to the bathroom)@lispi314 @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab3QLh5HVzuSd8oMEq by smallcircles@social.coop
2023-10-23T07:09:45Z
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@strypey @lispi314 When I say "currently" I mean now. When/if Meta is going serious about Fediverse and they *want* to take over the reigns of its evolution, then they will succeed. That is my prediction.That does not necessarily mean it is all over for the Fedi of Old. In our grassroots ecosystem there'll be other areas to explore. Tread new green pastures. As things go.. FOSS preparing the way for hypercapitalist takeover, after they'll demonstrate commercial feasibility with their work.
(DIR) Post #Ab3SnNFN3xfl7frCZE by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-22T22:12:44Z
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@lispi314> using punched cards for the pigeons to carry would've been betterWhat's the airspeed velocity of an unladen pigeon? : Phttps://interestingengineering.com/science/monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-airspeed-velocity-of-an-unladen-swallow@screwtape @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab3cIgZCBKAzbf8RZg by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-23T09:23:44Z
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@lispi314> People have some strange priorities.Everyone's priorities are strange to someone. For example, I find it strange to prioritise a pet network topology over real world usefulness. But hey, different strokes for different folks : )@screwtape @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab3ccsj4gPzl6rO0nI by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-23T09:27:20Z
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@lispi314> When you stand largely at odds with the far more conservative culture where you live and cannot meaningfully relate with, nevermind trust, the majority of them?That's why you want your geographical clusters linked with others. Which is why federation is useful ; )@screwtape @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab3cysOgaQ9QScKzNw by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-23T09:31:06Z
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@strypey them's fighting words ;p@lispi314 @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab3dKHyMh0AfrYEijQ by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-23T09:35:10Z
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@strypey but naieve convenience has bred corporate hellscapes and such things as we are now availed. Well, we'll see how Knowing Anyone In Nz Other Than You goes@lispi314 @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab3gzf5BySp5Gyqj1k by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-23T10:16:20Z
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@screwtape> Currently, making a website for your friends involves an expensive amazonalike monthly bill, and more and more and more SaaSSsOr it's an upcycled PC in the closet, with an ethernet cable connecting it to your router, running something like LibreServer or @yunohost. Connected to either a static IP, or DynamicDNS.There's a whole spectrum of options between these two extremes, like the IndieWeb;https://indieweb.org/@lispi314 @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab3hks8bFnilN9xHCy by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-23T10:24:45Z
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@strypey I've never heard of those, and I don't think I'm their demographic! You don't think that this topic is kinda crosstalkful?
(DIR) Post #Ab3jrXyonXxmn1grnk by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-23T10:48:28Z
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@screwtape> them's fighting wordsPistols at dawn, then? Sex, Dub, or Guns'n'Roses? ; )@lispi314 @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab3k0xFIEKY9kwskvA by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-23T10:50:07Z
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@screwtape> naive convenience has bred corporate hellscapesI think you got the casual order reversed there. But there are also practical reasons tech evolved as it as, eg;https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/111282504605801663@lispi314 @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab3k3vnM517s7sEYYi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-23T10:50:23Z
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@screwtape> naive convenience has bred corporate hellscapesI think you got the causal order reversed there. But there are also practical reasons tech evolved as it as, eg;https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/111282504605801663@lispi314 @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab3kOlrcCQDXPEACZc by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-23T10:28:18Z
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@strypey I guess while I'm in favour of self-hosting, I strictly prefer that it be proactively safe and respectful in both directions in a way that plex over the web for example is not. I felt your post was intended to be informational about... Something.
(DIR) Post #Ab3kOmhN5zcLzkNXFI by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-23T10:54:29Z
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@screwtapeYour post reduced the web to its worst possible implemention. I pointed out some other possible implementions.
(DIR) Post #Ab4jak2SuA4MQOLJ2W by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-23T22:20:05Z
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@bob> Most of the corporate hellscapes are not convenient. They're addictiveConvenience is part of what makes them addictive. I'm pretty strict about using only Free Code software on principle. But it would be delusional for me to claim that this doesn't make my life *much* more inconvenient.> People will jump through a lot of hoops and put up with a lot of bad UX to get to their dopamine hitsWhat kind of dopamine hit do people get from GoggleDocs?
(DIR) Post #Ab4lQ0dp2KIidhpIAK by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-23T08:32:35Z
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@lispi314 (New Zealand just elected literally emperor Palpatine)@strypey @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab4lQ1TvuZz7FKCuOG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-23T22:40:37Z
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@screwtape> New Zealand just elected literally emperor PalpatineYeah, nah. Luxon is more like Bill Lumbergh;https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Lumbergh@lispi314 @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab4lwPHcxBGAKdtQzQ by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-23T22:46:27Z
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@lispi314> I'm curious what degree of connectivity would remedy that problemLet's imagine it as as a spectrum, with your neighbourhood at one end, and everyone in the world at the other.Being limited to your neighbourhood comes with all the problems you mention. Being exposed to huge swathes of the global hivemind (a la FarceBook and Titter) makes people crazy, and is far too useful to well-funded propagandists.Somewhere between the 2 there's a sweet spot.(1/2)@screwtape @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab4mOuRIi3uz4L0btA by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-23T22:51:37Z
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@lispi314Getting to the social connectivity sweet spot requires 2 things;a) social software with connectivity lenses that can be widened and narrowed as needed by the people using itb) a critical mass of people using compatible apps, sufficient to make using them self-reinforcingThe problem with all P2P social software I've tried is that it's over-optimised for pet peeves of the devs, so it ignores a), and therefore has no chance of achieving b).(2/2)@screwtape @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab4mgJCjt2OQndUiUi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-23T22:54:46Z
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@lispi314>.so long as you host it on the clearnet, you're greatly facilitating doxingOK, but how many people care enough about this for it to affect their app choices? Clearly not many. I've been into this stuff for about a quarter century, and I'm still not sure what you mean by "clearnet" or what the alternatives are.@screwtape @yunohost @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab4x9UXznBeDuzzW5Y by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-24T00:51:54Z
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@strypey I think we will probably talk past each other so far as this thread continues. Two theories:Theory 1, corporate backed governments / government backed corporations are not attacking humansTheory 2, " are clearly attacking humans (and human allies).The everything's fine theory does not seem likely to lead to different outcomes than what we have right now. I think the stay-the-course-ers will move to the next web app, and the eternal octoberers not.@lispi314 @yunohost @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab5IjmRsoKSOtvHFEu by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-24T00:38:32Z
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@iatendril you can see people doing stuff @VeilidNetwork. Re: The difficulty of getting sufficiently normal to get into veilid, on advice I decided against trying to construct an environment capable of rustuping veilid or using the debian / redhat fedora packages, and to make my own second implementation of veilid instead and cut a path in for lisp hackers.@strypey @ellenor2000 @lispi314
(DIR) Post #Ab5Ijqxw16TKuUItkm by jeremy_list@hachyderm.io
2023-10-24T00:57:29Z
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@screwtape At some point I'm planning to make my SSB client for Haiku support Veilid as an optional transport layer for SSB. It remains to be seen whether I'll reimplement Veilid too or just make my program check for the existence of a standard Veilid node and attempt to talk to it.
(DIR) Post #Ab5IjvzXKZiyUu5kRc by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-24T04:53:46Z
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@jeremy_list>.At some point I'm planning to make my SSB client for Haiku support Veilid as an optional transport layer for SSBCurious to know your thoughts on the future of SSB. Which is the many forms upgrades, forks, and replacements currently under development are you following with the most interest?> It remains to be seen whether I'll reimplement Veilid tooYou might as well, if it's not super-complicated to do. Right? If it is, it's potential is... limited.@screwtape
(DIR) Post #Ab5KMjhv2LGxe9uvhY by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-24T05:12:12Z
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@screwtape> I think we will probably talk past each other so far as this thread continuesHere's the most key thing;Being right, does not mean people will follow your advice.That's so important to understand that I'm going to say it again;Being right, does not mean people will follow your advice.So...(1/?)@lispi314 @yunohost @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab5L3z1RyItnb6fsrQ by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-24T05:20:00Z
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@screwtape... if you want people to follow your advice, you need to understand what they want and need. You need to give advice in a way that connects your solution to those wants and needs.Because most people do not match their tool choice to geek opinions about the best network topology, etc. For the same reason most people don't choose their travel destinations based on where public transport routes go. I see no reason to effort they ever will.(2/?)@lispi314 @yunohost @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab5LQ7ggR56GqIWBc0 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-24T05:23:56Z
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@screwtapeNow it could be that I've totally misunderstood the purpose of your criticisms here. Perhaps you have no interest in changing anything at all? Perhaps you simply like to hang out together being right about things, and complaining about how the unwashed masses don't get it.If so, no judgment. This is a remarkably common use of social media ; )(3/?)@lispi314 @yunohost @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab5M5ZwqGh4gMdqNbU by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-24T05:31:16Z
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@strypey The false criticism that being right means making more mistakes and being worse than people who are ignorant and wrong is Project Management posteuring. Every single out-of-their-depth career project manager repeats this mantra constantly and it's as flat wrong now as it ever was.@lispi314 @yunohost @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab5NEAifXLTSgBsMgy by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-24T05:44:15Z
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@lispi314> traveling anywhere that doesn't have good public transport sounds excruciatingly annoyingIndeed. But most of the place people want to go in Aotearoa don't have public transport routes. At least not at the times they want to get there (and particularly get back). So people drive cars.Now you can spend your time and energy on berating people for not using public transport. Or on improving public transport so it meets more people's travel needs.@screwtape @yunohost @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab5NXUKIrXoYzXgp2O by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-24T05:36:06Z
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@lispi314 I thought you were here basically because I suck at IRC or something ;p the irony being I think lots of your toots are censored for me.@strypey @yunohost @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab5NXVIZFU1K0RswyG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-24T05:47:36Z
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@lispi314> It's possible your instance drops posts of mine that include mentions to servers that it blocksIs that a thing? No wonder threading is constantly breaking 🤦‍♂️@screwtape @yunohost @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab5OFCSUekbIJiMd2u by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-24T05:55:39Z
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@screwtape> The false criticism that being right means making more mistakes and being worse than people who are ignorant and wrong is... a strawman. This bears no resemblance to anything I'm saying.Do you think that people automatically believe everything you say, as long as it's right? If so, you have superpowers that nobody I've ever met has. The rest of us have to figure out how to persuade them, while fuming at the way they believe obvious lies.@lispi314 @yunohost @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab5P7h3r5ndQrnpAGW by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-24T06:05:13Z
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@strypey I don't believe the toot I responded to could be read in another way than what I responded to. As I wrote before, I think our worlds should be ships passing in the night, except for all this cannonfire. I think any notion of fixing the system by official channels to the bad actors themselves was basically over by 2014. The revolution will not be televised.@lispi314 @yunohost @ellenor2000
(DIR) Post #Ab5Y0E4lMOamWxlM1o by hayley@social.applied-langua.ge
2023-10-24T07:45:03.399595Z
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@lispi314 @ellenor2000 @strypey @screwtape What's the bandwidth of a pigeon carrying SD cards hurtling down a highway?
(DIR) Post #Ab5fEf3KYaVDvnvIJs by ghard@mastodon.social
2023-10-24T08:52:35Z
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@hayley @strypey @screwtape @ellenor2000 @lispi314 I remember seeing a youtube video testing that not so long ago. Several TB per trip it was, but don’t remember the final calculation. Their system lacked ACK/NAK so extra RTT would have to be added if reliability is a factor. Retry times due to random encounters with a neighbouring peregrin falcon, etc.
(DIR) Post #Ab5fEhRreLJdMTPuq0 by ghard@mastodon.social
2023-10-24T08:55:31Z
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@hayley @strypey @screwtape @ellenor2000 @lispi314 Also… this: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2549
(DIR) Post #Ab5j5uImtHNMR8EaFU by Wen@mastodon.scot
2023-10-24T09:37:39Z
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@hayley @lispi314 @ellenor2000 @strypey @screwtape Lawfully, 70mph * capacity of cards on the windscreen of a lorry.
(DIR) Post #Ab7afvw3mguqekcxI8 by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-24T07:48:09Z
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@hayleyan african pigeon or a european pigeon? @strypey @ellenor2000 @lispi314
(DIR) Post #Ab7afwl6itkVD4VirI by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-24T08:05:26Z
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@hayley Also this bandwidth seems incredibly high. It seems like a homing pigeon can easily carry fifty grams of microSD cards, call that one terabyte. They travel at about 100 kilometres per hour (really?).So one pigeon is about 25 Terabyte metres per second.@strypey @ellenor2000 @lispi314