Post AabfmIyBUl0PyIshk0 by KI5SMN@mastodon.hams.social
(DIR) More posts by KI5SMN@mastodon.hams.social
(DIR) Post #AabfmBFcC4CA22yVnc by KI5SMN@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-06T16:11:58Z
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@n6cta @k2za Guys I'd love to know in more detail about the troublesome things that were discovered in the js8call source code.Having gone to have a look at the repositories, I can see at practically a casual glance that the testing effort (at least) involved a large base of international hams, and I suspect development did as well.It seems, shall we say, less than probable that they all cooperated to bring hidden features to the code.In any case, lets get the deets out into the light.
(DIR) Post #AabfmCM25gvHSEz9RQ by kj5amz@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-07T00:08:51Z
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@KI5SMN @n6cta @k2za sort of less about the code itself and more about the context around it.Speaking directly to the code, JS8Call includes a hard-coded channel for the American Redoubt Radio Operators Nerwork, specifically a way to configure AmRRON callsign. American Redoubt is a sort of Christian survivalist movement that has a lot of ties to un-Christian things like white supremacists and anti-semites. One of their more famous members was a Washington state rep who collaborated with...
(DIR) Post #AabfmD3HUtW9cNDgqu by kj5amz@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-07T00:13:37Z
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@KI5SMN @n6cta @k2za ...the Bundy weirdos who took over the Malheur Wildlife Refuge, and published a pamphlet called "Biblical Basis for War" where he described tactics for a 'Christian War' that included instructions to kill all males in uncompliant populations. Then there's a recent video describing something called GhostNet, which looks to be a sort of survivalist emcomm plan. However, the maker of rhe video made a reference to using JS8Call in "very alternative ways"...
(DIR) Post #AabfmDlaq8xlpnx4vA by kj5amz@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-07T00:18:40Z
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@KI5SMN @n6cta @k2za ...specifically if the FCC was no longer an issue. Most of us assume this is some kind of encryption, but there's a lot of wink-wink nudge-nudge around the video in regards to it. However, it's not specific to JS8Call.However, the video was posted in a few places, namely the JS8Call groups.io board, where most people got excited about it. In another thread in the group, several members stated they were AmRRON members.As far as I can see, them's the facts thus far.
(DIR) Post #AabfmEsih8G3ICIHfU by kj5amz@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-07T00:20:49Z
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@KI5SMN @n6cta @k2za I would expect to see it forked and patched out, given the open source license. But it has raised red flags about the creator and the development community.
(DIR) Post #AabfmFd9uTP9cE1N3I by kj5amz@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-07T00:38:28Z
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@KI5SMN @n6cta @k2za@bud_t also raised some concerns about the GhostNet video being posted in a Chameleon Antennas telegram group, which prompted a statement trom them about the content of the video. But that's in another thread. I will say I don't think the solution is as easy as "don't use it". I don't believe in ceding territory - including airwaves - to fascism. There's also a lot of value in knowing how those types use it, and who those types are.
(DIR) Post #AabfmGkdk8z15iWrLs by k2za@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-07T02:59:59Z
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@kj5amz @KI5SMN @n6cta @bud_t Jakers, thanks for the more in-depth look at the situation. I agree about ceding territory to the “black hats” and if someone trusted forks JS8Call to a clean version I will certainly use it.That said, in the near term I’m going to take a page from Chris’ book and spin up a packet based system, his latest blog post is an excellent primer https://n6cta.com/2023/10/03/introduction-to-hf-packeteering-in-the-modern-age/and I commend it to everyone to read if you haven’t yet…
(DIR) Post #AabfmHVmuqhHRwaVqC by KI5SMN@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-07T14:27:07Z
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@n6cta @k2za I've been doing a bit of searching at github, but I can't seem to make their search work at all
(DIR) Post #AabfmHb6b4wziR4l84 by KI5SMN@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-07T10:45:37Z
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@k2za @kj5amz @n6cta @bud_t My question is, in absolute terms, do they have something that favors them specifically in the source code, or rather do they use js8call in some novel, less than obvious way to support their cause more effectively than you or I?This is the salient question. If the code can be shown to reflect some political or organizational favor, then demanding a fork is perhaps reasonable.Otherwise, it's completely excessive.
(DIR) Post #AabfmIyBUl0PyIshk0 by KI5SMN@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-07T13:56:12Z
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@k2za @kj5amz @n6cta @bud_t The reason I've got such a boner for this is, I hail from the world of open source, and to say "I won't use this until someone forks it", is functionally the same as saying "I'm not going to use this."The way it has to be done is to fork it; grok the project; make the build environment produce binaries; and then, and only then, can you begin to hack the code.This is, shall we say, a nontrivial undertaking, though not outside our collective capabilities.
(DIR) Post #AabfmJLE75RB7lf6em by kj5amz@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-07T00:44:28Z
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@KI5SMN Oh, and sorry for the timeline spam, but wanted to make sure you had a good answer and I'm long-winded.
(DIR) Post #AabfmJvjvKe0x0kGZM by KI5SMN@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-07T14:01:42Z
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@k2za @kj5amz @n6cta @bud_t Decisions also have to be made about the goals of the hypothetical fork. Are we forking it to make a derivative work of, and something other than, js8call? Or do we hope to submit pull requests to the js8call devs that reverse 'tainted' code?The point is, whatever we do by way of forking the existing codebase is going to be seriously labor intensive.So before forking, we need to be damned certain that there is a problem, and what it's nature might be.
(DIR) Post #AabfmKjivUcvS28BTk by KI5SMN@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-07T11:30:40Z
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@k2za @kj5amz @n6cta @bud_t John,Wasn't it @n6cta that was telling you about all the bad js8call things?
(DIR) Post #AabfmKuMHx8Lz16g3U by ve3qbz@mastodon.radio
2023-10-07T14:47:31Z
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@KI5SMN @k2za @kj5amz @n6cta @bud_t In terms of groking the code, the baseline goals would probably be:1. to remove the hard coded support for AMRRON2. to implement the ability to filter the digipeat functionality that potentially places your own station in a conflict of interest over re-dissemination of AMRRON packets.This level of hacking around is not hard.
(DIR) Post #AabfmLp4t4VIovdySm by KI5SMN@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-08T11:52:45Z
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@ve3qbz @k2za @kj5amz @n6cta @bud_t Not at all. It’s just pretty time consuming and labor intensive if you’re the only one working on it and you have no practical experience with c++.I’m into it, but first I want someone to show me the offending code.So far no one has stepped up a d done this.
(DIR) Post #AabfmM0mBZrTPD7JhI by KI5SMN@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-08T11:50:13Z
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@k2za @kj5amz @n6cta @bud_t So far no one has addressed these concerns. I’m getting just about ready to put my station back on the air.The whole thing begins to smell of a poorly conceived and amateurish psyop.
(DIR) Post #AabfmMVyJaoaxxiEK0 by nonlinear@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-09T21:50:44Z
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@KI5SMN @ve3qbz @k2za @kj5amz @n6cta @bud_t As far as I have been able to discern, the inclusion of AMRRON in the list below is the only overt code (from varicode.cpp).… { "@mars", nbasecall + 38 }, // MARS GROUP { "@AMRRON", nbasecall + 39 }, // AMRRON GROUP { "@RACES", nbasecall + 40 }, // RACES GROUP…
(DIR) Post #AabfmN7u2Z9krbSWRc by KI5SMN@mastodon.hams.social
2023-10-07T14:03:27Z
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@k2za @kj5amz @n6cta @bud_t Truth be told: just to investigate problematic code requires much of this same effort to be made; that is to say, replicating the required build environment and being able to generate binaries.
(DIR) Post #Aabgfk8ICmIS8x2oAi by nonlinear@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-09T22:00:51Z
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@KI5SMN @ve3qbz @k2za @kj5amz @n6cta @bud_t I would say it’s just one name among many, and overall I it seems like the software is agnostic. Forking and removing the name may impact that group, slightly, when using the forked version.
(DIR) Post #AabglvRh3aO4y24D5M by nonlinear@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-09T22:01:57Z
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@KI5SMN @ve3qbz @k2za @kj5amz @n6cta @bud_t But, adding filtering capabilities seems useful. I haven’t seen any particular issues in on-air usage, there have been exchanges on groups.io that indicated to me there may be an authoritarian bent.
(DIR) Post #Aabo0Vce36YEtt5fQe by bud_t@m.ai6yr.org
2023-10-09T23:22:57Z
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@nonlinear @KI5SMN @ve3qbz @k2za @kj5amz @n6cta I inferred that from the groups.io threads which mentioned this topic as well. I feel like having an open discussion about this topic there would be met with strong resistance.
(DIR) Post #AabooqzwqedRfwzqYS by nonlinear@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-09T23:32:08Z
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@bud_t @KI5SMN @ve3qbz @k2za @kj5amz @n6cta Agreed.