Post AaVvbDA5Nv9ymp9evg by mnl@hachyderm.io
(DIR) More posts by mnl@hachyderm.io
(DIR) Post #AaSVcNIM0wb8Do2KRs by rml@functional.cafe
2023-10-05T06:32:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
ok, I'll admit, I was wrong about LLMs. if they can destroy google they are pretty damn smart, and I'm here for it.
(DIR) Post #AaSVcO6gzmrcjvaWuW by louis@emacs.ch
2023-10-05T08:08:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rml "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" 😀
(DIR) Post #AaTnmQa8dp0Be1G4dk by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-05T19:35:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis @rml Or have I been right all along that clever robots are the fundamental future of computing, like they were in the 80s..60s and that the chatbots fundamentally show that Agile Business Methodologies were worse than machine generated chatbots. In fact I think I wrote that the thing about large language model AI is that companies would give money and freedoms to it because it's not a despised human employee
(DIR) Post #AaTnmRQbUkyAGjnyPw by rml@functional.cafe
2023-10-05T19:43:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@screwtape @louis are LLMs actually doing effective production programming anywhere?my comment just meant that they filled the internet with junk so google doesn't work anymore
(DIR) Post #AaTnmSDWYs6KiSh2fY by mnl@hachyderm.io
2023-10-05T19:45:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rml @screwtape @louis i use them daily for production code, both copilot, gpt and claude. I have definitely found a sweet spot these days.
(DIR) Post #AaTnmTGOffzdxf2qmm by rml@functional.cafe
2023-10-05T19:54:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mnl @screwtape @louis but I meant not in a human-replaceable way. I've had access to a self-hosted LLaMA2 instance, which can be impressive and has produced much better responses than what I've experienced with online services like chatgpt. and but while it can do a lot of stuff if I tell it small little functions to generate one by one, if I ask it to write something that requires nesting pattern matchers, for example, it spits out bullshit. it seems to get lost once there is nesting and recursion together.but I can see the incremental approach being effective, especially with languages that already demand that, like go. how are you doing it?
(DIR) Post #AaTnmU4jeWG8Tmb3FQ by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-05T20:00:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rml I regard @mnl as a lone genius who has chosen to realise their art through chatbots. I'm not aware of research having found chatbot contributed programs in general to be safe or effective. Of course, every asp.net web business in NZ now hires employees as handmaids to their chatbot subscriptions, but I'm skeptical as to what they were delivering in the first place.@louis
(DIR) Post #AaTnmUuqWlwX5OyfTM by pkw@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-05T20:29:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@screwtape @rml @mnl @louis I naively feel that using AI LLM code is something that will infect my own mind, and i won't use any of it.Also if debugging is harder than programming than then what? (after pulling in some chatgpt code)
(DIR) Post #AaTnmVjtSymBdirR2W by louis@emacs.ch
2023-10-05T20:48:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pkw @screwtape @rml @mnl This. I was using ChatGPT for a while when I had to maintain some legacy code in Ruby and Python for a few days and couldn't cope with the docs, since my knowledge in those languages is somewhat old.ChatGPT can give you hints, but the produced code is mostly flawed. In case of Common Lisp even just plain invented.Using Go for years already showed me how you can damage your brain by becoming dependent on LSP and IntelliSense all the time. Thus, I cling on CL mostly to keep my mind busy and not just my fingers.In a general sense, I don't see a bright future with LLMs as they exist today. We can already see the complete enshittification of the ecosystem by "AI". Non-programmer friends around me think they can make their life easier by writing speeches and presentations with ChatGPT. They do not realize (or should I say: feel) the consequences to society. But neither do they care about how their personal data is used by Meta, Google et all. Young programmers growing up in this environment will not get brighter and more competent, they will be completely dependent on these tool (like they equate React to "how to make a quality web app").On the other side, I can see future versions of AI as a tool to solve complex societal problems, like research in medicine, physics, climate, energy etc. Perhaps AI will be a curse and a blessing at the same time: a society that doesn't only not read books anymore, but will also be unable to write simple texts (or understand the basics of humanity) without LLMs. And on the other side, we'll have huge progress in academic areas that we cannot fathom right now. So, Darwinism in progress at full speed.
(DIR) Post #AaTnmWa0LESaFLF3GS by carcosa@emacs.ch
2023-10-05T21:40:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis @pkw @screwtape @rml @mnl To be fair to LSP and Intellisense (but not to LLMs), I am just as dependent on SLIME for CL as I am to LSP for C#. And I grew up without those things!
(DIR) Post #AaTpxx6wEtYncpDuFs by louis@emacs.ch
2023-10-05T22:00:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@carcosa @pkw @screwtape @rml @mnl Am I the only one using #LispWorks? 😀​
(DIR) Post #AaVe8yhNrjkAbLgIee by screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-10-06T09:35:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis I can't into memories but there are a few others around the mastodon. I bet some of my new Open To Accepting Followers MIT friends use lispworks@carcosa @pkw @rml @mnl
(DIR) Post #AaVvbDA5Nv9ymp9evg by mnl@hachyderm.io
2023-10-06T03:51:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis @pkw @screwtape @rml with all due respect this is a lot of yelling at clouds. I’ve written a lot of Common Lisp and a lot of go, I learned programming by assembling my code on paper, I use llms heavily for my Webapps and I am fine writing bootloaders, there’s nothing glorious about coding with lesser tools. The kids have been and will always be alright, and programmers certainly don’t have deeper insights into human’s use of language. 1/
(DIR) Post #AaVvbGKpaQXOd1Cmau by mnl@hachyderm.io
2023-10-06T03:51:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis @pkw @screwtape @rml I was told that being able to compile quickly on my pc instead of writing code overnight for batch processing was ruining my brain, yet that capability gave rise to unit testing and cicd, and I *still* program on paper. To be effective at programming with llms you need to have broad and deep knowledge of programming fundamentals, in fact that’s the only thing you need, because they do quick work of the messy glue layer
(DIR) Post #AaW4n7vHaTl1bKzH5E by ksaj@infosec.exchange
2023-10-06T12:19:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis @carcosa @pkw @screwtape @rml @mnl Nope. I use it, too. It's pretty great. 😎
(DIR) Post #AaW6wEjbpZCxF3zzBw by carcosa@emacs.ch
2023-10-06T01:26:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis @pkw @screwtape @rml @mnl Maybe? I develop and deploy on SBCL, but also test on ECL.