Post AaOkLptEbbiMbeA4em by nilsskirnir@kolektiva.social
(DIR) More posts by nilsskirnir@kolektiva.social
(DIR) Post #AaKtoL2aVF98HZMXJ2 by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-01T19:03:15Z
1 likes, 4 repeats
Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics, study finds. Researchers say tire emissions pose a threat to global health, and EVs could make the problem worse. https://www.thedrive.com/news/tire-dust-makes-up-the-majority-of-ocean-microplastics-study-finds
(DIR) Post #AaKtudQ94zin1ZNrAe by adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl
2023-10-01T19:39:08.881Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos@mas.to Great, so automobile manufactures and the entire automotive industry and the West's systemic addiction to it are killing the planet the more ways than one!Don't worry, though! Just buy electric cars, right?
(DIR) Post #AaL0AsQndboNw9olaC by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-01T20:41:12Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@adiz the west loves nothing more than greenwash as the solution to the destruction of our habitat
(DIR) Post #AaMTzUdaxA0UjwFb9s by gburg@dmv.community
2023-10-01T20:35:19Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos stop moving humans around unnecessarily, like for jobs that don't require being in an office. every unnecessary mile driven harms the planet.
(DIR) Post #AaMTzVb9Nje5ie79zE by friedrich@vis.social
2023-10-01T20:49:43Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@gburg @yogthos as with everything road transport related the majority of wear comes from heavy vehicles, including trucks. I just don’t get how this article gets around to manage to blame EV over the supersized SUV trend when it’s all about the wheight per wheel surface ratio.As with everything climate change this is not a personal lifestyle choice but should be regulated by politics. Tax all emissions.
(DIR) Post #AaMTzWf5QaO918xolE by gburg@dmv.community
2023-10-02T12:56:12Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@friedrich @yogthos 100 percent correct. I just think that the unnecessary transportation of humans for the some vague reasons (it's really protect the commercial real estate industry - office spaces) is an obvious easy win for the climate and humanity. The best way to be green is to not use energy we don't need to use - conservation. And there's negative knockoff effects like this tire thing.
(DIR) Post #AaMTzXQwYefZPZM2M4 by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-02T13:43:38Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@gburg @friedrich proper city planning obviates the need for vast majority of traffichttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdistrict
(DIR) Post #AaNG4dhZTZX86Ed7pY by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-02T20:51:39Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos @adiz Ahh the West's systemic addiction to cars, a trait meticulously duplicated by China, given that they produce a third of world's new cars (which is much more than US and EU combined), 89% of which are for sale domestically.Greenwash is beloved by all governments and corporations all around the world.
(DIR) Post #AaNG4ePWq8hAIZCELY by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-02T21:05:26Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@jackofalltrades @adiz I mean if you ignore the fact that China has top notch public transit, and high speed rail everywhere, then sure there's no difference.I also recall reading that 小区 neighbourhood planning idea is roughly modelled on Soviet microdistricts@adiz can probably speak a bit more on that :)https://meetingoftheminds.org/guiding-green-and-smart-urban-development-in-china-14830
(DIR) Post #AaNG4f2WV9t4FVRN7w by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-02T21:59:34Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos @adiz I don't see how that's relevant.The article you linked was about car tires being the biggest source of microplastics in the ocean.China is the biggest producer of cars in the world, therefore they contribute to that particular problem the most, and not the West as was suggested.The unfortunate truth is that they follow the same development trajectory as the West, and that includes extensive use of cars and cities built around them. Beijing is not Copenhagen by any stretch.
(DIR) Post #AaNG4faYSd6px3MYAi by popolon@pleroma.popolon.org
2023-10-02T22:56:48.538809Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jackofalltrades @yogthos @adiz It depend if you count NATO or UE as a country alone, or if you compare population of China and of this countries. Beside using lot of german berlines, they also produce lot of light electric/gaz cars, or electric scooters/bikes/tuktuk (you can see them everywhere since 2004), for their usage (as in UE partially), but the US only do big SUV, the impact is probably not the same in regard of number of cars. by this way. And their public transportation network, is really the best one I seen from countryside to huge megalopolis.
(DIR) Post #AaNKSRyx6IbGWCMxZA by adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl
2023-10-02T23:46:00.402Z
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@jackofalltrades@mas.to You are correct. China is a major contributor here if we're going to follow the logic through. I would note, however, that car ownership in China is less than that in the United States (instead of comparing it to the entire "West", for argument sake), car utilization is significantly less than in the United States, and this dramatic reduction in utilization is primarily due to, as @yogthos@mas.to pointed out, robust public transportation infrastructure. You make the comment that "Beijing is not Copenhagen". I don't personally know about Copenhagen as I've neither visited nor lived there. I can say that Beijing is extremely accessible without the need for an automobile, excluding, for example, public transportation utilizing automotive tires (like buses).I would agree with you that China is, in many respects, following similar trajectories of development as the West---almost all countries develop in the same way across technology and sophistication. I would not agree with your claim that Chinese cities are "built around" cars, however.All that being said, I don't see the need to especially defend or excuse China, or any other country, nor necessarily attack any country exclusively, in regards to this particular problem.
(DIR) Post #AaNWJhNZgT6Z7DTnEG by gburg@dmv.community
2023-10-02T13:48:19Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@yogthos @friedrich the problem though is that there are heavily vested interests who do not want efficient communities - oil companies and car companies to name just two. This sort of efficient living directly threatens their profits. And they've got billions to spend hiring lobbyists and paying off politicians. The rot in political/economic systems runs deep.
(DIR) Post #AaNWKHDuPslQHfEaA4 by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-02T14:06:39Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@gburg @friedrich yup, ultimately capitalism is the problem
(DIR) Post #AaNWTgKoQFh6ltwpMW by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-02T22:11:04Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jackofalltrades @adiz you don't see how city planning in a way that reduces the need for commuting and cars is relevant?
(DIR) Post #AaNXG7beKYUbFjvB1k by inventor@linuxrocks.online
2023-10-03T01:10:32Z
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@yogthos @jackofalltrades @adiz The CCP greenwashes so much more than the West! They want cars and only cars:https://time.com/6293946/china-guangzhou-electric-wheelchairs-ebikes-scooters/
(DIR) Post #AaNXG8PzJOl5lrTNUO by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-03T01:33:03Z
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@inventor @jackofalltrades @adiz the article you linked does not support your point, also its incredible that you can't even spell CPC correctly
(DIR) Post #AaNXG9BUSmkw9BhJWy by inventor@linuxrocks.online
2023-10-03T01:43:16Z
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@yogthos @jackofalltrades @adiz I was referring to this CCP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Communist_PartyHow does it not support it? And they've been promoting cars and trying to get rid of small EV's and bikes for a long time. This is from 2016:https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/05/18/as-china-chokes-on-smog-the-biggest-adoption-of-green-transportation-in-history-is-being-banned/
(DIR) Post #AaNXG9zpRd1QfJFVzc by adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl
2023-10-03T02:09:26.530Z
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@inventor@linuxrocks.online Your statements are not even related. @yogthos@mas.to @jackofalltrades@mas.to
(DIR) Post #AaNi02ADtdZDEhckqm by inventor@linuxrocks.online
2023-10-03T02:14:23Z
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@adiz @yogthos @jackofalltrades The government of China wants to get rid of small vehicles, they want cars cars and more cars, and public transport to be the only alternative. They want people in the grinding machine. That has been their policy for quite few years already.
(DIR) Post #AaNi02zynCy1pDq5WS by adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl
2023-10-03T04:09:47.823Z
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@inventor@linuxrocks.online You're just making up statements. The article you posted about e-bikes being restricted in some Chinese cities went into enough detail explaining the justifications therein. Misguided or not, not the debate here, your conjecture that this is some sort of grand automobile conspiracy or to throw people into a "grinding machine" is nothing short of wacky. Come on, man! @yogthos@mas.to @jackofalltrades@mas.to
(DIR) Post #AaNiBDRuHKTrQEEA7s by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-03T02:08:55Z
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@inventor @jackofalltrades @adiz the actual name of the party is the Communist Party of China, CPC. Even your wiki link explains this in black and white.I have no idea why westerners insist on misspelling this with such fervor. It's like if instead of referring to USA I'd start insisting on using SUA.Meanwhile, neither of your article says anything about greenwash or cars. Did you even read them?
(DIR) Post #AaNiBEEpLRc1rx7ENU by inventor@linuxrocks.online
2023-10-03T02:11:55Z
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@yogthos @jackofalltrades @adiz Thanks for the correction, CPC then. Yes, I read the articles, and they don't need to say exactly what I'm saying. If they did, why writing my own ideas at all? I would just post the link and, at most, quote whatever they say. But no, I think for myself.
(DIR) Post #AaNiBF3AKHsWO4fQq8 by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-03T02:13:44Z
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@inventor @jackofalltrades @adiz I don't even see why you think the articles support what you're saying, nowhere do they say that Chinese policy is to encourage more car use domestically in favor of ebikes, and the articles explain the actual reasons why scooters are problematic.
(DIR) Post #AaNiBFe27DMwEPusIy by inventor@linuxrocks.online
2023-10-03T02:22:10Z
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@yogthos @jackofalltrades @adiz They don't need to say it explicitly, I am capable of drawing my own conclusions. The excuses expressed by the government and repeated by journalists are of no relevance to me. I know that I will never be able to freely use my electric scooter in Shanghai, that's all that matters to me.
(DIR) Post #AaNiBGHjjb80DYUaBs by adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl
2023-10-03T04:11:48.496Z
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@inventor@linuxrocks.online Please enlighten me on how you cannot own/operate an electric bike in Shanghai. This is news to me. @yogthos@mas.to @jackofalltrades@mas.to
(DIR) Post #AaNiLYbeTI99w4iUoC by olmitch@shitposter.club
2023-10-03T04:13:41.048218Z
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I never thought I'd come across someone this far gone about cars. The hysteria reaches new heights every day. I wonder if liberal activists used to unhitch people's horses and draft animals while they had a drink at the bar back in the day. JUST WALK YOU DON'T NEED A MOUNT REEEE
(DIR) Post #AaNjKTgBP6zyJsswka by inventor@linuxrocks.online
2023-10-03T04:22:07Z
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@adiz @yogthos @jackofalltrades "Justifications" is a synonym for "excuses." You need to improve your english skills if you're gonna engage in propaganda professionally.
(DIR) Post #AaNjKURKZoiEg6wbEu by adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl
2023-10-03T04:24:41.318Z
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@inventor@linuxrocks.online I don't see how this addresses anything I stated. Your attitude here seems as though you think any/all laws, regardless of "excuses", are bogus. Should there not be any place for government to pass legislation to address societal or civilizational issues? Be such legislation right or wrong in the long term? @yogthos@mas.to @jackofalltrades@mas.to
(DIR) Post #AaNjgqTNL5svNoYnqq by Moon@shitposter.club
2023-10-03T04:28:40.847932Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
They don’t have to sell cars dipshit
(DIR) Post #AaNjkyurt9zGjDONFI by adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl
2023-10-03T04:29:29.303Z
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@Moon@shitposter.club What are you talking about, precisely?
(DIR) Post #AaNjmbLaUMmKD2f7mC by olmitch@shitposter.club
2023-10-03T04:29:46.943951Z
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thank God that busses, scooters, bikes, and other small vehicles don't have tires.
(DIR) Post #AaNkRsNW4Xpmu4FIYq by inventor@linuxrocks.online
2023-10-03T04:29:48Z
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@olmitch @jackofalltrades @yogthos @adiz I'm not against cars at all. But the less the better, don't you agree?
(DIR) Post #AaNkRtCZ0kfRSO8480 by olmitch@shitposter.club
2023-10-03T04:37:14.181649Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
no, I don't. Bikes are an affectation. If you live close enough to your place of work and major stores to bike everywhere, not to mention have a shower at work for when your sweaty ass bikes in every day, you are INCREDIBLY privileged. Most jobs in the city don't pay enough to afford a place there. You assume everyone lives in a place where it's even safe for them to walk from their home to the nearest bus stop and wait around. A car is liberty, convenience, and personal security. It's a shelter. It's a generator. It gives people a few minutes to feed their children dinner before they head out to their second or third job.
(DIR) Post #AaNkkombfDTTFr0uf2 by inventor@linuxrocks.online
2023-10-03T04:33:48Z
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@adiz @yogthos @jackofalltrades Look, I'm not gonna tell the chinese government how to deal with their problems, I'm not God, I don't know everything. I just hope they incentivize more the use of smaller vehicles, that's all.
(DIR) Post #AaNkkr2HHvCMF2MSMi by adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl
2023-10-03T04:40:39.011Z
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@inventor@linuxrocks.online I don't see that they actively aren't against smaller vehicles. But when you have "10,000 traffic accidents involving e-bikes in China, resulting in over 2,000 deaths" in Guangzhou alone (2019 statistic) and the city of Guangzhou "had to investigate and deal with more than 1.6 million cases of electric bicycle traffic violations" (2022 statistic), I can understand the temporary use of more heavy-handed restrictions. As much as I love China and the Chinese people, I will admit that nuanced regulation only goes so far. In fear of sounding disparaging to the Chinese people, it's hard enough getting people here to treat public restrooms with courtesy, let alone enforce traffic laws. The modus operandi is generally more heavy-handed, "draconian" responses (like outright prohibition), and then slowly re-introducing more metered solutions. The simple fact of the matter is that China, culturally, is not like Japan, or some other countries, where people adhere to rule of law even when nobody is looking. @yogthos@mas.to @jackofalltrades@mas.to
(DIR) Post #AaO3mfp1qjSLAfkFqC by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-03T07:25:10Z
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@yogthos @adiz Sure, city planning and public transport can definitely reduce reliance on cars. However, the effects of that would be reflected in car use and car sales statistics.So why derail the conversation while we have solid statistics to base our conclusions on?It is a fact that car manufacturing is an important part of the Chinese economy. The government relies on it for further growth and wants even more cars on the roads, not less, see news like these: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/21/china-announces-steps-to-boost-sales-of-cars-and-electronics.html
(DIR) Post #AaO3mgdioG0PhtSjr6 by popolon@pleroma.popolon.org
2023-10-03T08:13:50.148197Z
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@jackofalltrades @yogthos @adiz That’s the case on all biggest industrialized countries sadly. But on the other way, even with the growing proportion of people having cars in China, that’s still a little part, and public transit are good enough and cheap enough to not to have to use it. Why ride a 120km/h car on long distance travels, when you have 300+Km/h fast trains. The same for the inner cities, even if you have very good ring and viaducs in biggest cities. subways, cars, trains, and fast trains, are all fully used, they fill most of the country (from 250 to 350km/h) that’s not like in Japan or Taiwan, where the fast trains are empty most of the time, and where there is only one line on the North-West coast for Taiwan and South-East Coast for Japan.
(DIR) Post #AaOkLptEbbiMbeA4em by nilsskirnir@kolektiva.social
2023-10-02T22:11:27Z
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@jackofalltrades @yogthos @adiz Of the motor vehicles on roads today, the West plus Japan are responsible for the vast majority. To say nothing of the predominant use of motor vehicles for past 100 years being the West. China’s per capita vehicle production is still below US’ and in terms of miles driven (the real culprit in road ‘dust,’ China is about 10% of US. Interesting charts below. https://www.statista.com/statistics/183505/number-of-vehicles-in-the-united-states-since-1990/https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_motor_vehicle_production
(DIR) Post #AaOkLqkPPuFVGZ2XXU by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-03T08:07:42Z
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@nilsskirnir @yogthos @adiz That's the thing: China is doing everything in their power to catch up to the West on that front, and many others.The framing that it's exclusively the West to blame for environmental destruction is invalid. All industrial nations follow the same trajectory of overconsumption and ecosystem degradation.How many cars are in Brazil, Japan, India, Russia, etc.
(DIR) Post #AaOkLrSMmTPXStbe3U by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-03T10:40:07Z
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@jackofalltrades @nilsskirnir @adiz China is pretty much the only major country with an actual plan to phase out fossil fuels that's being actively implemented right now. China is also the place where most reforestation is happening. And there is much stronger focus on public transit than in the west.Claiming that China is simply emulating the west is just wrong. It's developing, which it has every right to do, but doing it in a far saner way than western countries have.
(DIR) Post #AaOkLs4IVRkhMXLwB6 by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-03T12:17:41Z
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@yogthos @nilsskirnir @adiz Oh nice, a list of claims without supporting evidence. I'll do just one round of fact-checking these, if you don't mind. No time for more.1/4
(DIR) Post #AaOkLspRg9SxilPafQ by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-03T12:19:45Z
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@yogthos @nilsskirnir @adiz "China is pretty much the only major country with an actual plan to phase out fossil fuels that's being actively implemented right now."That's incorrect, most countries have a plan and implement it, and China's plan is not even the most comprehensive or ambitious: https://zerotracker.net/ Whether these promises will be met is another issue of course, a consideration that obviously includes China too.2/4
(DIR) Post #AaOkLtdmezjSEsxn84 by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-03T12:26:27Z
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@jackofalltrades @nilsskirnir @adiz China is the only major industrial country where it's actually happening, China dominates in both renewables and nuclear right now by a huge margin
(DIR) Post #AaOkLuQhj6rcgbqrNg by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-03T12:29:49Z
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@jackofalltrades @nilsskirnir @adiz and here are some concrete numbershttps://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/china-widens-renewable-energy-supply-lead-with-wind-power-push-2023-03-01/https://www.ft.com/content/6d2ed4d3-c6d3-4dbd-8566-3b0df9e9c5c6https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/china-expects-ok-6-8-nuclear-power-units-per-year-green-energy-drive-2023-09-27/The progress China has made in renewable energy just this year makes the entire rest of the world look like it's standing still.https://nitter.net/KyleTrainEmoji/status/1680243524124516352
(DIR) Post #AaOkLv7b9dAupdv7Eu by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-03T13:02:18Z
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@yogthos @nilsskirnir @adiz Oh, so China is building so much renewables and implements their plan so well that it reduced their annual emissions? Exactly like a dozen western countries like Germany, UK or Denmark had already done?But since China is the only major country to implement phasing out of fossil fuels, as you claim, they must be doing even more than these countries, right?Or are your "facts" based merely on promises and projections, and not on what is actually happening?
(DIR) Post #AaOkLvuWDkJ5HMoBUW by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-03T13:25:47Z
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@jackofalltrades @nilsskirnir @adiz you clearly didn't read the links I gave you
(DIR) Post #AaOkLwffOS1Ldarpyq by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-03T13:55:58Z
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@yogthos @nilsskirnir @adiz Oh that I did. All your links show is the amazing growth of solar, wind and nuclear power in China. None of this translated to reduced emissions as of today.In contrast, in "the West" there are countries that did already reduce emissions. Hell, even the US is on track to reduce their CO2 emissions by (measly but still) 5% this year.Yet you claim that China is the only country that implements a plan to phase out fossil fuels. A claim easily shown to be false.
(DIR) Post #AaOkLwkd5zzTszBniS by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-03T12:22:38Z
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@yogthos @nilsskirnir @adiz "China is also the place where most reforestation is happening."In absolute terms, yes, but that's because of China's sheer size. The same could be said about their CO2 emissions, right?Reforestation in China is to be applauded for sure, but its rate is nothing special when compared with some other countries. As always in a global economy there's also the issue of exporting deforestation, which China also leads in. See charts.3/4
(DIR) Post #AaOkLxKQwsd9g1wOWW by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-03T14:29:26Z
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@jackofalltrades @nilsskirnir @adiz the links show that the growth is happening on a much bigger scale than it is in the west. While the west talks, China is actually doing the work.
(DIR) Post #AaOkLy3oEAvVwlAdFY by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-03T15:38:33Z
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@yogthos @adiz We don't need "the growth". We need a reduction in emissions. Something that some countries _already_ did, while China didn't. When Denmark or the UK reduced their emissions by more than 40% since 1990 that's not "just talk".What is "just talk" are Chinese emission promises while still building new coal power plants, and driving up both domestic production and global demand for oil, gas and coal.https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/china-coal-output-up-58-jan-feb-new-capacity-comes-online-2023-03-15/https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/IEA-Global-Oil-Demand-Hits-Record-High.html
(DIR) Post #AaOkLyuz2TSebg368G by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-03T15:54:35Z
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@jackofalltrades @adiz China's use of coal is perfectly consistent with their plan to become carbon neutralhttps://www.carbonbrief.org/chinas-2060-climate-pledge-is-largely-consistent-with-1-5c-goal-study-findsand yes, China is different because it's the only major country that has a concrete plan that's actively being implemented today, largely ahead of schedule I might addhttps://www.visualcapitalist.com/chinas-energy-transition-in-5-charts/
(DIR) Post #AaOkM06icKRUIMXz3w by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-03T15:39:19Z
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@yogthos @adiz The sad truth is that growth of renewables and nuclear in China is not about climate change at all. It's mainly about economic growth and energy security by having the option to use any energy source that is economical, whether fossil or not.I'm not singling out China, as most countries do the same. I'm only pushing against the false premise that somehow China is different and is phasing out fossil fuels. They clearly are not, regardless of what their politicians say.
(DIR) Post #AaOkM0aqoIXrnoe31s by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-03T12:25:30Z
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@yogthos @nilsskirnir @adiz "And there is much stronger focus on public transit than in the west."When compared with other countries China doesn't have especially impressive public transport use. Other countries that are not the US that is, but that's more a matter of the US being special rather than China.They encountered problems with car-centric urbanization and are now making changes to remedy the situation. Exactly like all the other industrial countries.4/4
(DIR) Post #AaUfbw3YfskVbHStO4 by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-03T16:46:04Z
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@yogthos @adiz The increased use of fossil fuels is "perfectly consistent" with their plan, isn't that convenient.China uses so much coal that they may actually reduce emissions somewhat, just like other countries in a similar situation did before them (the US or the UK come to mind). But they're not phasing out fossil fuels this way.Norway had clean electricity since forever and now a quarter of cars are EVs and their emissions are hardly budging. China's plan doesn't go much beyond that.
(DIR) Post #AaUfbwoLruBBwPMGK8 by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-03T17:40:28Z
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@jackofalltrades @adiz I linked you an actual paper explaining how the use of coal fits with the plan, if you have specific criticisms of the methodology then feel free to share them
(DIR) Post #AaUfbxaYyekCLvulTE by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-03T19:49:53Z
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@yogthos @adiz Yes, the actual paper that says new coal plants don't make sense in the context of the transition. We talked about this before: https://mas.to/@jackofalltrades/109389627082097718Since our discussion in November development on even more coal plants was started and coal production and imports were ramped up. In 2022, 2% more coal has been used to generate electricity and power sector emissions grew 2.6% compared to 2021.But sure, keep believing in politicians' promises. Now 2030 is one year closer.
(DIR) Post #AaUfbyVzX8gJE2mcz2 by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-05T21:22:47Z
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@yogthos Look who agrees that China is not phasing out FFs:«The complete phasing-out of fossil fuels is not realistic, China's top climate official said, adding that these climate-warming fuels must continue to play a vital role in maintaining global energy security. Xie Zhenhua said the intermittent nature of renewable energy and the immaturity of key technologies like energy storage means the world must continue to rely on fossil fuels to safeguard economic growth.»https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/china-climate-envoy-says-phasing-out-fossil-fuels-unrealistic-2023-09-22/
(DIR) Post #AaUfbzMoMkvrrrUoJU by AlfredJH@mastodon.nl
2023-10-06T09:52:14Z
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@jackofalltrades @yogthos Nice discussion, but do I miss the factor CO2-emmison per head?China might be one of the major CO2 producers, but per head inhabitant it is doing much better than USA. I think you have to worry more about India.
(DIR) Post #AaUfc0Wm3CUnT3AHTs by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-06T10:06:46Z
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@AlfredJH @yogthos This information is readily available: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita?tab=chart&country=IND~CHN~USA~GBR~DNKUS is definitely the worst offender, although even it is reducing its emissions.Many western countries are doing much better on climate though.India is a much smaller contributor to emissions than China, both in absolute and per capita terms.Meanwhile China is undercutting climate action and pledges at COP. They stood together with India against phasing out coal:https://qz.com/2089231/what-chinas-actions-at-cop26-mean-for-climate-change
(DIR) Post #AaUfc1K35zuXvsDdHk by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-06T10:18:32Z
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@jackofalltrades @AlfredJH you're making a really disingenuous argument here because you're ignoring the context of the west having raised its own living standards over the past century by using fossil fuels on an mind boggling scale.Now westerners like you point fingers at developing countries saying they're the problem and they should stop raising their own living standards to address the crisis.Seems to me the west carries far greater historic responsibility.
(DIR) Post #AaUfc26yA72iNb6hXM by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-06T10:20:46Z
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@jackofalltrades @AlfredJH rich western countries that have been parasitising the rest of the world through colonialism and created the climate catastrophe are the ones who should be doing the lion's share of contribution to fixing it.Even western countries that are doing better then US are relying on China to produce things like windmills and solar panels. Why are they not creating their own clean energy industry and exporting it to the rest of the world to help move off fossils?
(DIR) Post #AaUfc2cAI7zpwLhcA4 by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-06T10:37:50Z
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@yogthos @AlfredJH You are the one that puts all "westerners" into a single bag. If you want to say "Americans" say that, and I will gladly agree with you!But if you want to describe all western countries like they are a uniform blob I will push back against that, because it's an oversimplification.
(DIR) Post #AaUfc3HdnvAo0z6joG by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-06T10:38:00Z
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@yogthos @AlfredJH The largest wind turbine manufacturers in the world are not from China, but from Germany (Siemens, RWE, Nordex), US (General Electric), Denmark (Vestas), etc.Early German investment into solar power is what enabled the technology to mature, so that now the Chinese manufacturers can benefit from it.See https://mastodon.social/@CelloMomOnCars/111093742362110247
(DIR) Post #AaUfc40f6XBaGcAgz2 by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-06T10:41:13Z
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@yogthos @AlfredJH In terms of responsibility, half of all CO2 emissions humanity ever emitted has been emitted in the last 30 years. China is already responsible for 13% of the total cumulative emissions, a percent that is growing every year.Coal is the most polluting fossil fuel of them all. Immediate reduction in coal production and consumption is absolutely necessary. People in the Global South are already paying the price for the delays.
(DIR) Post #AaUfc4mAFvBQdwOd1c by WahbAllat@mas.to
2023-10-06T10:57:15Z
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@jackofalltrades @yogthos @AlfredJH Yes but China makes everything for everyone. Even the wind turbines we are installing in Saudi Arabia. China's emissions are the rest of the world's exported emissions.The biggest polluter today is still the US military and that we could do without> The US military is the largest user of fossil fuels and energy in the US government. US military emissions are about 51 million metric tons, CO2 equivalent, annually in the last two years.
(DIR) Post #AaUfc5TPf7mIo4dAR6 by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-06T11:04:53Z
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@WahbAllat @yogthos @AlfredJH Only 8% of China's emissions are exported: https://mas.to/@jackofalltrades/109388230758770926The rest is consumed locally, mainly by their middle class: https://mas.to/@jackofalltrades/110052268942198073
(DIR) Post #AaUfc63DW0Pyb7NlFA by WahbAllat@mas.to
2023-10-06T11:06:46Z
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@jackofalltrades @yogthos @AlfredJH if you going to compare per capita, it will look very bad for all western nationscareful...Edit: might as well put a graph
(DIR) Post #AaUfc6gZ9htSZ9nBZo by WahbAllat@mas.to
2023-10-06T11:10:39Z
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@jackofalltrades @yogthos @AlfredJH Germany not looking so good mate. if you will blame the Chinese middle class, start with Germany's
(DIR) Post #AaUfc7JunPMwXCCbuS by jackofalltrades@mas.to
2023-10-06T11:47:00Z
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@WahbAllat @yogthos @AlfredJH Germany at 10.4 tonnes and China at 6.4 tonnes is data from 2010. Now they are both at 8.1 tonnes.This is exactly what I'm talking about. Looking at this, how can you say China is making progress for the climate while all the other nations are not?
(DIR) Post #AaUfc8TAWUMi6BXVyK by WahbAllat@mas.to
2023-10-06T11:11:26Z
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@jackofalltrades @yogthos @AlfredJH also France being so low per capita is a testament for nuclear energynuclear energy should definitely be part of the solution, excluding it is idiotic
(DIR) Post #AaUfcAAoBirpNoxsdE by WahbAllat@mas.to
2023-10-06T11:50:41Z
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@jackofalltrades @yogthos @AlfredJH China is building more nuclear. I am surprised that Germany managed to reduce its CO2 emissions when it decommissioned its nuclear reactors to the point energy prices became too high for manufacturing. Is it really all from going solar? https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/china-expects-ok-6-8-nuclear-power-units-per-year-green-energy-drive-2023-09-27/
(DIR) Post #AaUfcAvxMQa5k31X7Y by yogthos@mas.to
2023-10-06T12:03:43Z
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@WahbAllat @jackofalltrades @AlfredJH one reason for emissions reduction in Germany currently is due to the fact that Germany is now becoming deindustrialized due to lack of cheap energy
(DIR) Post #AaUtqYYTjUKyPknGts by zleap@qoto.org
2023-10-06T15:19:32Z
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@adiz @yogthos And the cost to the environment ot just extracting Lithium is huge and we are facing a fresh water crisis
(DIR) Post #AaUtqZUGGeYfIxpPxw by adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl
2023-10-06T15:25:31.007Z
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@zleap@qoto.org I agree. @yogthos@mas.to