Post AaHBnBSXf6UeorGI8u by mjambon@qoto.org
(DIR) More posts by mjambon@qoto.org
(DIR) Post #AaH6pAyTw5wI7kKe6C by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-29T23:44:55Z
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Old people: Dont be ageist, you shouldnt assume someones abilies based on age!Also old people: 17 year olds shouldn't have the right to vote, drink, live on their own or have any of the rights of an adult because they having matured mentally yet...#ageism
(DIR) Post #AaH769XyUrPUcT1qTY by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-09-29T23:48:02.337191Z
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@freemo it's ok when I do it
(DIR) Post #AaH76eUrQUL4bmoIQS by mjambon@qoto.org
2023-09-29T23:48:05Z
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@freemo I will prove my young age by engaging in this futile debate 😂
(DIR) Post #AaH78viYN24Ub5IiqO by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-29T23:48:31Z
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@thatguyoverthere hypocrisy seems to be ubiquitous these days.
(DIR) Post #AaH7KQajvETPXK839c by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-09-29T23:50:37.397048Z
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@freemo also I think technically most of that should be up to the parents not the state. Exception perhaps voting although you could say if the parents decide they are responsible to live on their own they automatically get to vote or something.
(DIR) Post #AaH7MYmgQuSXWajS64 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-29T23:50:57Z
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@mjambon Hahaha carry on.When i was young i was very mature and ahead for my time (Grew up int he ghetto on welfare but by 15 had enough income to rent my own home and move, making 100K at 15).. I always resented how adults, who clearly were sometimes less mature than me and I had my life together more, would try to tell me they had a right to control me because im not old enough yet..I mean legally true of course, but ever since I was very yougn this felt like an unjustice... As an adult now my views are we shouldnt judge anyone by age, but rather ability, and even children should have autonomy so long as they can prove they are capable.
(DIR) Post #AaH7VvR9a1SQO47xhY by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-09-29T23:52:41.800746Z
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@freemo it was a joke, but in the case of making sure children are protected I don't really think it's agism. I also think some old people lose their edge and some are sharp as a tack. Some kids mature faster than others and might be ready to take on the world at 16. Most could probably benefit from having a net under them a little while (not forever) until they can handle adult life.
(DIR) Post #AaH7bzFSK3VrwfXvfc by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-09-29T23:53:41.874657Z
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@freemo also yes I think a lot of people are hypocrites, although it's rarely intentional. Mostly we all have ideals that we fail to live up to on our own, but that doesn't make them any less an ideal
(DIR) Post #AaH7cp4FexRqeyhiQS by lucifargundam@qoto.org
2023-09-29T23:53:56Z
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@freemo @thatguyoverthere Everything's ok when I do it- I got a signed permission slip from my parents before The Great War that's not set to expire!
(DIR) Post #AaH88LLrg6ZNlRyNA8 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-29T23:59:36Z
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@thatguyoverthere Then by that logic once someone ages over 70 they should loose all those rights as well and should be passed to whoever their next of kin is between 18 - 70...If the logic is "the parent should be a dictator over their kid and decide what rights the kid can or cant have cause they are too young to decide for themselves"... thent he same should be true over 70, after that age your too old to decide for yourself by the same logic.I would argue the parents shouldnt decide any more than the states should decide... any child at **any** age who can clearly articulate their desire to exercise a right, and can past all the prerequisites the state normally has to access that right, then they should have it.Obviously this brings up weird questions like "should an 8 year old be able to buy a gun"... and I would answer "no more or less so than a 40 year old with the same mental capacity as the 8 year old would"
(DIR) Post #AaH8T3uJjN3hk7y17w by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-09-30T00:03:23.423921Z
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@freemo who determines mental capacity? Why should parents who largely (exception for psychopaths) have only the best interests of their kids in mind not have any influence or say? They invest 100% of the time, energy, emotion, and money. Seems rather fucked to think they shouldn't have a voice.
(DIR) Post #AaH8bbiFvWKMuCOruS by noiq@infosec.exchange
2023-09-30T00:04:53Z
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@freemo mostly old Republican people.Can't fix the root cause without naming it
(DIR) Post #AaH8p99YuJgmNqd1SC by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-30T00:07:21Z
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@thatguyoverthere > who determines mental capacity?Right now? The government... they look at your age and use it to assume mental capacity.. <18 you dont have it... I argue that **if** they use that logic then it only makes sense if you use the same logic to deny it >70 too, since there is decline at both ends of the spectrum.If we agree this sounds like a really stupid and unjust way to do it, then I dont have the answer, but obviously that answer isnt "the parents" because thats what we have now.> Why should parents who largely (exception for psychopaths) have only the best interests of their kids in mind not have any influence or say?Why should adult children of 70+ year olds who largely (exception for psychopaths) have only the best interests for their infirmed parents in mind not have any influence or say?> They invest 100% of the time, energy, emotion, and money. Seems rather fucked to think they shouldn't have a voiceThey invest 100% of the time, energy, emotion, and money caring for their infirmed parents. Seems rather fucked to think they shouldn't have a voice
(DIR) Post #AaH8v9QmmsVCyzY1wm by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-09-30T00:08:28.090347Z
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@freemo I didn't say right now I said in your proposed solution. A panel of experts?
(DIR) Post #AaH8vWI3nUBlsadt2W by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-30T00:08:29Z
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@noiq I have not met a single person, republican or democrat, who doesnt agree with this... some people may think the exact number should change slightly up or down.. .but by in large they agree.Are you saying you think a 6 month old baby should have the right to drink alcohol at a bar?
(DIR) Post #AaH9FN6behSvBXkcam by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-30T00:12:04Z
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@thatguyoverthere I dont have a good answer for how, I just know that the way we do it now is a grave injustice and is not the way.What i know is whatever system we have in check to see if someone is mentally capable of exercising a right, that system should not rely on assumptions around an arbitrary age threshold.If for example a car requires a license... as long as you can demonstrate you can drive a car succcessfully and pass all the tests successfully then regardless of your age you should have access to it.What this really exposes is the unanswered question in society... if we are so worried about an 8 year old driving a car and killing someone even if they can pass the test, because they arent responsible enough... then why arent we equally scared about a 40 year old with mental limitations who has the same maturity as that 8 year old... why arent we protecting against that?
(DIR) Post #AaH9FUxKT4nXX5TKF6 by mjambon@qoto.org
2023-09-30T00:12:05Z
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@freemo I was mostly joking. If I were to debate these issues, I would make the distinction between situations where equality of rights is essential and others where skill-based permission is preferable.
(DIR) Post #AaH9mdG8cKIIqE4Lj6 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-30T00:18:04Z
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@mjambon That sounds like a lot of work... good thing you arent debating the issue then huh? :)
(DIR) Post #AaHARayE23BncDDuRk by mjambon@qoto.org
2023-09-30T00:25:30Z
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@freemo well, to simplify things, we can make general assumptions such as "everyone's opinion matters equally until they screw up" (equality of rights, jail) and "there exists a practical measure of the amount of screwing up per individual that was adopted by our society" (a judicial system). This clears the ground for issues like "what should be the requirements to consume alcohol?" or "should random morons be allowed and encouraged to vote on tax issues?"
(DIR) Post #AaHAXo0KU8dHmEAWg4 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-30T00:26:36Z
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@mjambon Ok, so how would we apply that to a 2 year old who wants to drink alcohol and who doesnt have a track record of screwing up?
(DIR) Post #AaHB5RlDh20kdR8ujg by mjambon@qoto.org
2023-09-30T00:32:43Z
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@freemo I haven't met a two-year-old who wants to drink alcohol. Assuming that's the case, I would make them take the standard test for deeming someone fit to drink alcohol. They would fail because they can't read or can't understand the questions.
(DIR) Post #AaHBLglNgJTvnXxlIG by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-30T00:35:37Z
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@mjambon While certasinly not the norm gifted children are able to read as early as 2 years old. My mom often brags how I was able to read at 2 years old... I was also fully capable of holding a conversation at that age...Should I and children like me, be allowed alcohol? I dont know if at 2 i actually asked but it would not surprise me if i saw my grandfather drinking one that at 2 I might ask to have some also.
(DIR) Post #AaHBnBSXf6UeorGI8u by mjambon@qoto.org
2023-09-30T00:40:37Z
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@freemo ok, you might pass the test. The test would check that you understand that it might fry some neurons (I actually don't know how bad alcohol is on brain development at this age) and leave you someone disabled compared to another kid who hasn't had alcohol until a certain age. There would also be a test that determines whether you need parental supervision to do various kinds of things, including taking drinking-ability tests. So I think there would be a way for some gifted kids to gain more freedom from the law or from their oppressive parents but it would be rare.
(DIR) Post #AaHBptxBCkp7OWt8Do by mjambon@qoto.org
2023-09-30T00:41:06Z
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@freemo ok, you might pass the test. The test would check that you understand that it might fry some neurons (I actually don't know how bad alcohol is on brain development at this age) and leave you somewhat disabled compared to another kid who hasn't had alcohol until a certain age. There would also be a test that determines whether you need parental supervision to do various kinds of things, including taking drinking-ability tests. So I think there would be a way for some gifted kids to gain more freedom from the law or from their oppressive parents but it would be rare.
(DIR) Post #AaHC16ndmd9MQClpLM by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-09-30T00:43:09.272938Z
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@freemo you say it's government in p1 and parents in p2. It can't be both. State trumps parents by instituting an age based classification. My argument is that parents generally know their children much better than the bureaucracy. In my proposed solution parents of an 8 yo who think he might pass a driving yrst could approve.As far as elder care goes I think it does largely rest on the family. That includes preventing them from getting in the car if they can't drive. A lot of people aren't qualified to actually act as nurses for infirm family (especially dementia) and they may choose other ways to ensure their family is taken care of. I never said that a child of x years should not be allowed to do y so I'm not sure why you attempted to create an arbitrary age for elders to lose rights. I've known several people who maintained competence into their 80s and 90s. That said when a person is incapable of caring for themselves I do think family should be the first ones to support them, and that may include taking on some authority over them.
(DIR) Post #AaHCTwDIDoTPzFW2vQ by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-30T00:48:18Z
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@thatguyoverthere It can and is... the government determines when you are eligible... the criteria they use is age. Morover the government determines when you arent of age the right to decide for you goes to your parents, it is the government that transfers your right to the parent and enforces, ergo it is both.> In my proposed solution parents of an 8 yo who think he might pass a driving yrst could approve.This is indeed a good counter example... normally with **most** things its as I said the government apply age as a limit on when your rights transfer to the parents.But as you point out some things the government doesnt let the parent decide at all...> As far as elder care goes I think it does largely rest on the family. while family may encourage them not to drive if they cant, ultimately legally they cant do much unless they prove they are a risk in some way. That isnt easy.Neither of these solutions in either case is acceltable to me.
(DIR) Post #AaHDDweWv8rwfcC4Ku by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-09-30T00:56:40.749553Z
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@freemo just sounds like government getting in the way. Business as usual.
(DIR) Post #AaHDTmXOIQe5vqPEXo by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-30T00:59:29Z
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@thatguyoverthere if the govt didnt get involved how would the parents get the authority?
(DIR) Post #AaHDmgWsrIccnfBNT6 by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-09-30T01:02:57.730565Z
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@freemo nature
(DIR) Post #AaHDscO5AgEzgvtXqC by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-30T01:04:00Z
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@thatguyoverthere so what does that mean? Like if i have a hild and keep him locked in the basement it should be legal to do so evne if im still doing it to my child when he is 40 or 50?
(DIR) Post #AaHDuIRuGx5wQuU4Ey by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-09-30T01:04:16.723500Z
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@freemo > without government who would maintain the roads
(DIR) Post #AaHDyuIvTBqazsTvwu by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-09-30T01:05:10.130454Z
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@freemo always with the retarded 0.0001% case. No hiding a person in a cage should not be allowed.
(DIR) Post #AaHDz0bE443CWN5dJ2 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-30T01:05:08Z
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@thatguyoverthere im not disagreeing with you, im sincerely asking... if i lock my kid in a basement at 40, as long as nature lets me get away with it, then it should be legal?
(DIR) Post #AaHE5QrdKHexiVpM8W by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-09-30T01:06:19.507140Z
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@freemo I dont know what you mean legal. If there is no government making laws then sure. Does that mean you should or that if people know you are doing it they shouldn't do something to interfere.
(DIR) Post #AaHE5r0O8M6ynC7iOO by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-30T01:06:23Z
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@thatguyoverthere then your answer was true, clearly its not nature but some other factor... so how do we determine at what age a parent should no longer have dictator control over their kid?
(DIR) Post #AaHEKXiU8C5hJTkmSu by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-30T01:09:01Z
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@thatguyoverthere So a person who lives in isolationa nd self sufficient (so no people around to care) .. that person should be free to torture this children as long as they want.... so long as they can get away with it?
(DIR) Post #AaHEgZ9dSvrs8xxEnI by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-30T01:13:00Z
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@thatguyoverthere As for what "legal" means the confusion goes both ways..You say people should be allowed to interfere.. suggesting you are ok with a group of people getting together saying "that thing that guy doesnt isnt right" (we would call that a law) and then they go and act like police and enforce it...So your ok with governments forming on the spot to address it (Tahts what that is) whenever they want... sounds like your just doing government with extra steps.
(DIR) Post #AaHMD5lIT080Dg1j9c by AmpBenzScientist@qoto.org
2023-09-30T02:37:22Z
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@freemo Also old people: Dexedrine was amazing when you had a few beers and had to drive 12 hours after a long day of work. The 1911 is still a good weapon and I remember walking into general stores where they had a barrel of M1 rifles for 30 dollars each. That Dexedrine was good stuff.
(DIR) Post #AaHcUZQ53FqqOJSXTc by rchrd@mastodon.online
2023-09-30T05:39:46Z
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@freemo Well.... it really heavily depends on your point of viewSB 260 and 261 --Youthful Offender Parole Hearings - Prison Law Office https://prisonlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/SB-260-261-Youth-Offender-Parole-Guide-w-ltr.pdf
(DIR) Post #AaI3pJQqNzateLvoau by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-09-30T10:46:05.430792Z
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@freemo it's pretty simple. I think legal just means the current authority allows it. It doesn't say anything about what's good or bad. I think if there is no formal government that ethics and morality still exist, and people could protect the children of their community.I think it's insane to think people younger than 18 might be considered adults. If it were up to me it would be closer to 21 for most and 25 or later for some, but I'd be open to having parents make that determination. To me it seems duties infer rights, and it's the duty of parents to protect their children and raise them into adulthood so it should be their right to decide when a child has reached adulthood.Taking the most absurd approach and talking about fictitious parents torturing their kids is just bizarre. They exist but hardly enough to treat all parents like they are doing that. I've never had a conversation on age of adulthood where the person taking the "8 year olds can be adults stance" wasn't a kid diddler. Most people above the age of 30 acknowledge they were hardly adults at 18 themselves.
(DIR) Post #AaIUYCwHyEKhLthxBo by Romaq@qoto.org
2023-09-30T13:46:16Z
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@thatguyoverthere @freemo "It depends" isn't the answer people want, and it sucks for legal policy, but it is so often the correct answer at both ends of the spectrum as well as in the middle.
(DIR) Post #AaIUYEljAT4b1imY0O by Romaq@qoto.org
2023-09-30T13:47:37Z
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@thatguyoverthere @freemo Oh, and as far as, "sharp as a tack," my wife reminds me I am VERY "tacky." That's a good thing, right?
(DIR) Post #AaIUbS8ztYvfNWCRP6 by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-09-30T15:46:06.821796Z
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@Romaq @freemo I hear the same thing so it has to be good
(DIR) Post #AaIgQQ4gRrVZDxgftA by noiq@infosec.exchange
2023-09-30T17:58:34Z
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@freemo I am saying that's a facetious argument to make while there are conservative pundits actively advocating for barring 18 yo from voting.
(DIR) Post #AaIgV0D02ouMRzlKHQ by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-30T17:59:21Z
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@noiq 18 year olds already cant vote, I was speaking from the American perspective.
(DIR) Post #AaIkiPl4lL57GxLszQ by noiq@infosec.exchange
2023-09-30T18:46:38Z
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@freemo yeah, nohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#text
(DIR) Post #AaPhvVlen8CPv1tf7o by rchrd@mastodon.online
2023-09-30T05:41:40Z
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@mjambon @freemo there is a huberman podcast on alcohol that is absolutely worth the listen.I still drink though
(DIR) Post #AaPhvdXPtxYu1BIP2W by freemo@qoto.org
2023-10-04T03:18:17Z
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@rchrd Yo I seemed to have missed this in my feed... I hope you drank one for me bud!@mjambon
(DIR) Post #AaPi3wWrB47NEZzjAO by mjambon@qoto.org
2023-10-04T03:17:13Z
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@rchrd @freemo thanks for sharing. I'm watching the parts that interest me. As a personal anecdote, psilocybin makes me forget how to enjoy drinking. After relearning how to drink a few times, I stopped drinking altogether. Alcohol now feels destructive, much like an escape into a dead end.
(DIR) Post #AaPi3xQVq8da1C2Auu by freemo@qoto.org
2023-10-04T03:19:52Z
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@mjambon I dont drink very often.. largely because one drink just makes me tired and feel shitty.. I drink, very rarely, but to get drunk, and pay for it the next day. Thankfully I'm only dumb enough to do that to myself like once a year max.Only thing I will really ever be caught doing is the devils lettuce from time to time, usually as edibles.@rchrd
(DIR) Post #AaPiHUf3aNn4rGI8ZN by mjambon@qoto.org
2023-10-04T03:22:20Z
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@freemo @rchrd my new attitude wrt alcohol is I don't need to get drunk to enjoy saying stupid things.
(DIR) Post #AaPiKwWGSxue7xp8Zk by freemo@qoto.org
2023-10-04T03:22:57Z
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@mjambon You may not need to get drunk to enjoy stupid things, but it sure as hell makes it easier :)@rchrd