Post AZfU7ps82PByevgPSK by f09fa681@digitalcourage.social
(DIR) More posts by f09fa681@digitalcourage.social
(DIR) Post #AZfG42GKd7neZRIVsm by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-09-11T17:29:15Z
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I keep wanting to do a small JS project to get a better feel for the state of the language and ecosystem but then people in the know can't recommend me any good "state of the art" toolchain/structure ("we use X but that's considered legacy many others use Y") so I look for some projects documentation on how to set things up and for some reason after 3 hours having read through half the basic setup docs my CS degree magically catches fire.
(DIR) Post #AZfHo4V8jpTmmzjusa by muratk5n@fosstodon.org
2023-09-11T17:48:49Z
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@tante Web dev has gotten worse rather than better, maybe avoid any up-to-date advice is the better approach. I'm looking into pyscript these days.
(DIR) Post #AZfI9BaNaqSIqJG5HU by mitsunee@ieji.de
2023-09-11T17:52:33Z
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@tante if that small project is like a library type thing I published a template on my foxkit org that has typescript, linting, formatting and esbuild all set up: https://github.com/foxkit-js/library-templatecjs builds in esbuild may require some silly hacks at times depending on what you're doing, I'm still discovering those things myself and figuring out how to document them. I included something in the build script to try make default exports work for now.
(DIR) Post #AZfIDxvtmXXxwlbRuy by fasterandworse@hci.social
2023-09-11T17:53:04Z
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@tante I watched a video explainer if that new Bun js runtime and I felt short of breath with anxiety
(DIR) Post #AZfIpD8UDiaDoSFbbk by uncanny_static@chaos.social
2023-09-11T18:00:06Z
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@tante We are quite happy with npm + Vite + Vue.js for our frontend, but recommendations depend on the use case, of course.
(DIR) Post #AZfJFOUwb9uCa6ExRQ by kmohrf@social.tchncs.de
2023-09-11T18:03:41Z
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@tante I wanted a label generator for these A4 herma sticker printout sheets yesterday and found quite some joy by ignoring all the tooling I usually use and trying out importmaps, native ES modules, CSS nesting & layers and a few other things that are new and shiny. I was still using Vue, but that is very no-build-tool friendly. not having to compile stuff was refreshing. the only thing I did miss were hot-reloads on file changes. so... no tooling (or only vite) maybe?
(DIR) Post #AZfJWFMvnHPtBrWoXA by scottburton@mastodon.social
2023-09-11T18:08:01Z
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@tante frontend has been this way since around 2013; they genuinely like this bric-a-brac approach and think of it as a positive thing. For what it’s worth, people are settling for Next plus either React or Vue, it’s as close to a “stack” as you’ll find.
(DIR) Post #AZfLbpY2uJyAkqW8G0 by AlexVoss@fosstodon.org
2023-09-11T18:31:23Z
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@tante whatever you do, you gotta transpile code, otherwise you run the risk of understanding how stuff works
(DIR) Post #AZfMMMYUWHXgRfuizQ by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-09-11T18:39:48Z
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@AlexVoss Can't let that happen! If a "Hello World" doesn't download 300 MB of deps what are you even doing?
(DIR) Post #AZfMSOgDX7wklwPAxM by fasterandworse@hci.social
2023-09-11T17:55:31Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@tante it’s like this
(DIR) Post #AZfMeKq3dnVsKkhU24 by AlexVoss@fosstodon.org
2023-09-11T18:41:20Z
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@tante I wasn’t going to say this buy, hell, yes bro!!! Perhaps pipe it all through ChatGPT to be sure?
(DIR) Post #AZfMlotIJ1npZ9mcUq by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-09-11T18:42:54Z
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(There is a lot of very useful stuff in JS land, I personally find the language syntax very clunky and perl-ish but every platform sucks in some way. It's just that I find JS to be so hostile when you wanna do more than "here's an alert()" or "Just copy these 30 lines of code and React might show a Button!")
(DIR) Post #AZfNFZeBXuz2yZu6b2 by tamewhale@mastodon.social
2023-09-11T18:49:48Z
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@tante sounds like you’ve succeeded getting that feel
(DIR) Post #AZfOMjra3rYMdr9Lnc by goncourt@mastodon.social
2023-09-11T19:02:15Z
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@tante Actually I'm discovering Philipp Ackermann about Patterns of JS Design (german: Professionell entwickeln mit Javascript, contains both, useful syntax hints and proposals for projects). — BTW I appreciate a lot that lightweight character (reminds of functional languages such as lisp or haskell). - Context: a little project with SVG and some challenges about how to organize code. — Another maybe: Osmani, Learning Javascript Patterns
(DIR) Post #AZfORZy0HcwhOeSiSe by no2nsense@mastodon.social
2023-09-11T19:02:55Z
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@tante VueJS is neat, you can put it in the HTML and forget about the build tools (a la jQuery) , or enter the npm rabbit hole if you feel like it.
(DIR) Post #AZfP2wzXdltfWO0A2S by vilim@todon.eu
2023-09-11T19:09:55Z
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@tante I love @toxi thi.ng packages, though they are in typescript and require a build system. Something smaller with a less steep learning curve is https://vanjs.org/ which I find quite elegant but haven't tried it personally.
(DIR) Post #AZfQVjWmsSY87GqBDk by alper@rls.social
2023-09-11T19:26:18Z
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@tante I tried working on Elk and found everything remarkably well setup despite how bizarre Vue is.
(DIR) Post #AZfTtdSrN86C7j5ntY by muenchengene@digitalcourage.social
2023-09-11T20:04:16Z
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@tante what about @aral ?for a small #javascript project?
(DIR) Post #AZfU7ps82PByevgPSK by f09fa681@digitalcourage.social
2023-09-11T20:06:47Z
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@tante Don't worry, this experience continues throughout the whole journey. It is just duct tape layered over duct tape layered over duct tape.I've done the groundwork for a fully fledged desktop messaging app. Anything that goes beyond hello world becomes ridiculously complex. And by that I mean writing your own build plugins and trying to cobble different kinds of import systems together (mixing CommonJS, ESModules), different kinds of scopes (DOM, Electron, Node), all in one codebase. In the end, you understand the whole pipeline but you've lost many months of time and all of your sanity.And that's just the ecosystem. The language is... actually it's not that great either. But it's amazing how TypeScript transforms it onto a whole different level.But tbh you can get a very good feel of the language by just writing vanilla JS and fire it up in an index.html. When it comes to the ecosystem... not feeling anything is better, trust me.
(DIR) Post #AZfVIP1wH7GaYBsGrg by AlexVoss@fosstodon.org
2023-09-11T20:19:57Z
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@tante apropos JavaScript: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDnodeURKDM
(DIR) Post #AZfZPMjlbBZFHYwyEy by Pinky@hooray.computer
2023-09-11T21:05:57Z
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@tante imo this has always been the biggest challenge with JavaScript: the toolchain & framework options are so vast and opinions on what's modern are so varied that one doesn't know where to start. It's the #tooManyOptions problem
(DIR) Post #AZfcT7BVfFiq4GPEjg by FirefighterGeek@masto.ai
2023-09-11T21:40:17Z
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@tante You're describing everything I hate about the current state of front end web site development. You can spend a couple of weeks learning the framework of the day, but half of it is obsolete before you're done with the first page. It's all built to be interdependent and every part you pick up assumes you know about all the other parts.Oh, and underneath it all, is a crappy language.
(DIR) Post #AZfffy1BMA8ZGVOZpg by LangerJan@chaos.social
2023-09-11T22:16:17Z
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@tante You know, you could've written this toot ever since the dawn of Mastodon (heck, Twitter even) and it would've been correct and timeless.
(DIR) Post #AZfi4ULmzrqyOtr3LM by schrotie@fosstodon.org
2023-09-11T22:43:08Z
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@tante Before my recommendation a warning: I have a pretty strong opinion on this and it's an outlier. I want it so simple I can hold the whole stack in my head and I want it scalable to well structured mid-sized projects.Forget toolchains, frameworks and all the modern tooling, but you need cutting edge language features to pull it off whithout that. Beyond that it depends on what you want to do. I'm happy to try helping if that sounds interesting ...
(DIR) Post #AZgNhHgW7LyuX7ASy8 by aheimbuch@chaos.social
2023-09-12T06:29:33Z
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@tante Wenn du magst kann ich dir nen Abriss geben wie wir das bei @podlove machen.
(DIR) Post #AZgTJzebaag5fyYDb6 by mavu@mastodon.social
2023-09-12T07:32:29Z
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@tante You are feeling this way, because you are a medical Doctor who is working in a hospital staffed with monkeys, and the patients are all teddy bears.
(DIR) Post #AZgUgoUVMIP7fZGuUC by morbi@chaos.social
2023-09-12T07:47:49Z
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@tante mir gefallen die Ansätze von https://modern-web.dev/ es wird versucht möglichst nah an den Browser Standards zu bleiben und damit wenig Tooling zu brauchen