Post AZHjmKApregtbVEJs0 by mikee@social.lol
(DIR) More posts by mikee@social.lol
(DIR) Post #AZHbe3SXKEjZoa3UI4 by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-08-31T07:36:52Z
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ML models being trained on information they can scrape from the internet provides a perverse incentive - if knowledge is shared in ways that can't easily be scraped, that knowledge remains outside the scope of what the models can learn from. People working in fields that are currently poorly documented suddenly have a reason to stop writing blog posts, and instead engage in spoken presentations. A new kind of passing down of secrets from generation to generation.
(DIR) Post #AZHbnPdEG3ufBhWDTs by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-08-31T07:38:18Z
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Or maybe we keep presenting stuff online, but obfuscated - slide decks that are accurate if you read what's visible, but contain subtle bugs if you try to parse the text out of them. Adversarial inputs intended to prevent the models from invading areas they haven't yet conquered.
(DIR) Post #AZHc0r8DKGeUF1QDvU by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-08-31T07:40:37Z
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Implementations of cryptographic algorithms that are all subtly broken if you extract them from PDFs. A new capacitor plague, superficially fine but guaranteed to fail a few years down the road.
(DIR) Post #AZHcIMNeOcgi55zN7g by icing@chaos.social
2023-08-31T07:43:25Z
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@mjg59 The historic way for sub-cultures to evade authorities has been to invent their own languages.Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thieves%27_cant
(DIR) Post #AZHcUyXcLDJLuSfNE8 by sqncs@mstdn.social
2023-08-31T07:43:56Z
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@mjg59 if the goal is to spread information, why would they care? If the goal was to keep secrets why were they putting it on the web in the first place?
(DIR) Post #AZHcq431401X4KPP7o by teajaygrey@rap.social
2023-08-31T07:49:41Z
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@mjg59 Or, an older kind of passing down secrets from generation to generation? ;)/me may be part of at least on school of esoterica professing to be 3500+ years old with ties to another 20,000+ years old that mandates cell phones/etc. be turned off during classes. ;)
(DIR) Post #AZHdTywXSeRaoxPg92 by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-08-31T07:57:14Z
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@sqncs the goal isn't to keep secrets, it's to bind knowledge to humans to prevent the role being devolved to computers
(DIR) Post #AZHdenjzS46RGLhdFA by cawhitworth@mastodon.online
2023-08-31T07:57:52Z
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@mjg59 fun idea but tricky to implement without also breaking screen readers for blind folks too.
(DIR) Post #AZHdp2cUzCPsJ057E8 by jripley@mastodon.social
2023-08-31T07:58:06Z
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@mjg59 I set myself the challenge of going through cryptopals a while back and implementing from first principles from original papers. Turns out most of them are buggy, or at least the common implementations don’t do what the papers say.
(DIR) Post #AZHeA9y2raR7AtEJ2u by sqncs@mstdn.social
2023-08-31T08:00:24Z
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@mjg59 so the goal isn't actually research? It's making sure some guild retains power?
(DIR) Post #AZHeWf0m7gVLpKEgTY by luigirenna@infosec.exchange
2023-08-31T08:03:21Z
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@mjg59 I am writing my thesis on adversarial techniques against AI systems, you just gave me a great idea for dataset posinoning. Thank you :)
(DIR) Post #AZHej8wGgCnS7U50uO by viktorTheBoar@retro.pizza
2023-08-31T08:08:07Z
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@mjg59 I think most of this is already happening. A lot of data scraping is happening even outside of AI crap. Tutorials have long moved from blogs to youtube and those that stayed are riddled with ads, clipboard blockers and general garbage just to keep you searching and clicking. And now, it's gonna get worse :(
(DIR) Post #AZHf2bKlKcyRggobWS by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-08-31T08:13:27Z
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@cawhitworth Sigh yes that is an extremely reasonable objection
(DIR) Post #AZHfEWN7bcxhm0bQIa by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-08-31T08:15:18Z
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@sqncs Guilds were traditionally defined as excluding people - it's not clear to me that acting in a way that's inclusive to people but exclusive to machines is a good analogy there
(DIR) Post #AZHffNuhA88DMI7FI0 by sqncs@mstdn.social
2023-08-31T08:21:51Z
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@mjg59 gatekeeping is gatekeeping. You tell enough people the information gets out. It's not really a question of if. But you do you I guess.
(DIR) Post #AZHgIdMTf106Z0pHsW by m@martinh.net
2023-08-31T08:27:31Z
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@mjg59 CV Dazzle FTW https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/2/16597276/google-ai-image-attacks-adversarial-turtle-rifle-3d-printed
(DIR) Post #AZHgSzTmHYJ03ZBBOC by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-08-31T08:28:30Z
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@sqncs If we're redefining "gatekeeping" to mean "I don't want to be replaced by a language model" then fine I'm happy to be a gatekeeper
(DIR) Post #AZHhCz8ns88WKPIhea by sqncs@mstdn.social
2023-08-31T08:37:33Z
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@mjg59 yes I'm sure you are. It's clearly something that makes you uncomfortable.
(DIR) Post #AZHhOOseVttlLLBnm4 by SpaceLifeForm@infosec.exchange
2023-08-31T08:38:12Z
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@mjg59 Like in the olden daze.But, truth be had, I do not mind creating bullshit to confuse the AI.The AI can not tell a lye.
(DIR) Post #AZHhXQOuEMqWfFZx9k by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-08-31T08:39:41Z
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@sqncs I think the idea of being replaced by automation with no social support for retraining or alternative mechanisms for providing things like housing and healthcare understandably makes people uncomfortable?
(DIR) Post #AZHj5xhH2giljNCdDE by cawhitworth@mastodon.online
2023-08-31T08:59:05Z
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@mjg59 interesting ioccc/underhanded-style thought experiment in itself though, how to render text that when read by a human or spoken by a screen reader is correct but when scraped yields nefarious results
(DIR) Post #AZHjmKApregtbVEJs0 by mikee@social.lol
2023-08-31T09:07:21Z
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@mjg59 or alternatively, we could abolish all intellectual property, put a cap on how rich people can get in relation to the rest of us, and stop linking the perceived value of everyone’s output to their living standards. That’s better I think than putting a DRM on knowledge (the rich and powerful will get around it, it will become just another barrier for those without means).
(DIR) Post #AZHk72gS5SuZRNthPk by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-08-31T09:10:38Z
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@mikee I am all in favour of working towards a better outcome but protecting people until we reach that better outcome is still rational
(DIR) Post #AZHlNGaSGLtp9GOOPo by vaurora@wandering.shop
2023-08-31T09:22:21Z
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@mjg59 this is kind of why I deleted my blog and almost all my internet presence, even before LLMs were big. It was getting digested by google and regurgitated without attribution, but also never showed up in search results. So the only people who could find it are the ones who had saved links… usually to harass me…
(DIR) Post #AZHlwlaYzUmXQyN3ey by Androp0v@mastodon.social
2023-08-31T09:25:59Z
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@mjg59 IMHO creating targeted adversarial inputs might not even be needed. All these AIs hallucinate fairly often, and people are uploading AI outputs to the open internet without verification all the time. The AIs themselves are plaguing the internet with slightly broken versions of everything all the time, we don’t need to add to that. Just wait until their own hallucinations are a significant part of the training dataset.
(DIR) Post #AZHvwdbRgH6qCyMQjY by done@mastodon.social
2023-08-31T11:24:03Z
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@mjg59 the technocratic priesthood, Herbert’s Mentats, this is all pretty metal 🤘
(DIR) Post #AZI0yqdAiL54xn2dLk by penguin42@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-31T12:22:04Z
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@cawhitworth @mjg59 Homophones?
(DIR) Post #AZI4Ably58OADeSHoW by joeyh@hachyderm.io
2023-08-31T12:55:51Z
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@mjg59 source code that infinite loops unless built with the right obscure build flags, which are in a different file(not hypothetical, I started doing this years ago)
(DIR) Post #AZIAkiQZPqs90c2ytk by siguza@infosec.exchange
2023-08-31T14:09:26Z
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@mjg59 just let AI write your blog posts and then lean back and watch the models collapse
(DIR) Post #AZItKgWQNGEXVUkNaS by go8ose@aus.social
2023-08-31T22:29:10Z
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@mjg59 Me thinks that manufacturers are doing just fine with planned obsolescence. They don't need other people to sabotage capacitors for them.
(DIR) Post #AZPckt01IBkhyhDlNg by efi@chitter.xyz
2023-09-04T04:26:19Z
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@mjg59 you're just saying steganography several times and that is not much different from a zip archive with a password