Post AZGwhexmFNggsZGgWe by mcv@nerdica.net
(DIR) More posts by mcv@nerdica.net
(DIR) Post #AZA0Mz6lC2zYzD9Bj6 by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-08-27T15:37:26Z
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Libertarians who hold up the Constitution as ideal need to address the Articles of Confederation. It's a problem for them because it proves most of the Founders they usually revere accepted the view that they had been living with too little federal government power. And there was contentious debate about these changes and no clear answers and what we ended up with was only a compromise. Understanding our past as history and not religion should empower a healthier civics today. #LiberalValues
(DIR) Post #AZA0eCIhOfXCpDwHyK by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T15:40:41Z
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@wjmaggos Originalism is the only interpretation that makes sense.The articles of confederation did not have enough federal power, but the Constitution aimed to limit both federal power and mob rule.That's the core of the system and the Left want to deny it.
(DIR) Post #AZA1UXBSzws6eUVpia by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-08-27T15:50:07Z
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@amerika why attack the left on this when you want monarchy, right?the core of any constitution is a legal system that allows the people to rule themselves as well as possible. no ideal is put above another, except sustainable self rule. liberalism is a culture that lets people live together as well as possible.
(DIR) Post #AZA1fmCdUyx6PxQ6oC by MartinDeLaToot@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T15:52:10Z
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@wjmaggos don’t try and tell libertarians how/why/what they believe. It will not end well. I encourage you to edit this. Not just because you don’t know what you’re talking about, but to protect you from potential ratio.
(DIR) Post #AZA1iRHdjTzkPG1w12 by MartinDeLaToot@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T15:52:39Z
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@wjmaggos don’t try and tell libertarians how/why/what they believe. It will not end well. I encourage you to edit this. Not just because you don’t know what you’re talking about, but to protect you from potential ratio.#stayInYourLane
(DIR) Post #AZA1lnn2VihZ4sJwps by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T15:53:16Z
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@wjmaggos To me, liberalism is a spirit of accepting others and that there is no one-size-fits-all solution.Leftism wants a one-size-fits-all solution based on equality, which is a proxy for individualism.Monarchy takes the opposite view, which is social hierarchy based on opportunity/reward and duty/privileges, not equality/conformity.
(DIR) Post #AZA1qXvMvU3PJqTkdU by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T15:54:07Z
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@wjmaggos As you know, my attack on the Left is very simple: their methods do not produce their stated goals.Leftist societies consume themselves and end up being horrors like the Soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, etc.They mean well but... they have a duty to determine whether their methods achieve their goals.
(DIR) Post #AZA1shOMhFH5GI4HnU by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T15:54:30Z
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@wjmaggos In my view, any system that is consistent, clear, and rewards functional behavior is the best way for people to live together.
(DIR) Post #AZA1vFv7IBLyvcbfma by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T15:54:58Z
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@wjmaggos This varies with culture, average IQ, and a few other factors.What works in NY will not work in TX, Uganda, or Nicaragua.
(DIR) Post #AZA5FW832S6Sqv0ZMG by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-08-27T16:32:13Z
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@amerika liberalism thinks we can best figure out the best way to organize society, together. hardcore leftism and "your way" both assume to know the answers, and are fine with limiting the input of others in the conversation. the popularity of both concepts depends on believing one will be part of the "deciders" or your views will be represented either way. it's just as unrealistic as thinking everybody will work hard under true communism or ancapistan won't become Mad Max.
(DIR) Post #AZA5RVoc1ud1M5dYMC by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T16:34:25Z
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@wjmaggos Leftism limits the participation of non-Leftists in the conversation.At this point, that is a consistent historical result.
(DIR) Post #AZA5TQxF4bEsrJacpU by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T16:34:46Z
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@wjmaggos I also distrust mob decision making. Finding the "best way to organize society, together" is inferior to looking at what has worked in history.
(DIR) Post #AZA5VJVzhhxkMgk16O by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T16:35:06Z
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@wjmaggos
(DIR) Post #AZA5Zq6sSVpwcA9QSu by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T16:35:55Z
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@wjmaggos Also, I do not need to be among the deciders; the order I propose will work better for civilization, and I will inherit those benefits.This is why the Western system rules the world: it aims toward civilization.
(DIR) Post #AZA5bGXretiCtLSDkO by gmcgath@liberdon.com
2023-08-27T16:36:06Z
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@wjmaggos There was also an anti-Federalist faction, which included Patrick Henry, Sam Adams, and James Monroe. They didn't necessarily all think the Articles of Confederation were adequate, but they thought the Constitution went too far the other way. The Bill of Rights was added to satisfy these concerns.
(DIR) Post #AZA5bUqoTFBhGAQYE4 by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T16:36:12Z
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@wjmaggos Leftism (unintentionally) aims toward regression to primitive, disorganized conditions.
(DIR) Post #AZA610sGXsLXonH37w by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-08-27T16:40:49Z
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@amerika looking at what worked in history is what a "mob" does. then the "mob" builds institutions and has classes in civics. and structures government to have representatives and check and balances. we are the fucking mob not doing all the shit you have to claim we will do to justify putting your boot on most of our necks.
(DIR) Post #AZA69qejuD8ejX9z7o by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T16:42:25Z
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@wjmaggos I disagree. Mobs follow trends and panics.History requires a sober analysis.Those who decided government should have representatives and checks and balances were conservatives who detested socialism and diversity.
(DIR) Post #AZA6NQPcHDLLOSYnS4 by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T16:44:53Z
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@wjmaggos Mobs are also historically illiterate.How many people on the Left know any US history prior to the 1960s?
(DIR) Post #AZA6RGnFyrfWihS2LI by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T16:45:34Z
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@wjmaggos You might want to realize that you are in the top 1% of Leftists, and most have none of your concerns, appreciation for nuance, or sensitivity.
(DIR) Post #AZA6ZRRUGwVQ40AJIe by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-27T16:43:13Z
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@amerikaI've never really understood what "leftism" is supposed to mean. By your definition, it seems to be a bit of a misnomer, because it's not something people on the left tend to support. The enforced one-size-fits-all is more something you see among conservatives: conform, don't stick out, don't be different.Monarchy takes the opposite view, which is social hierarchy based on opportunity/reward and duty/privileges, not equality/conformity.Conformity to the hierarchy, surely? People need to know their place and stick to it.
(DIR) Post #AZA6ZSXYBswxT60fOC by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T16:47:02Z
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@mcv Leftism means egalitarianism. That accelerates over time toward something like Full Communism, i.e. warlords who do favors in a distributarian society.Conservatives emphasize right ways of doing things; their weakness is that they assume this is universal, their strength is that they produce social hierarchy based on competence and character.It is not conformity to have a place in a hierarchy; conformity is the mob of identical individualists.
(DIR) Post #AZA6e6Debg9vgmuqMS by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T16:47:54Z
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@mcv Generally, per Haidt and other sources:* Leftism = individualism* Conservatism = orderConservatives believe in an order higher than the individual, so aim toward social order as well as fairness, justice, inclusion, etc.
(DIR) Post #AZA70OOPibvUQMZx0C by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-08-27T16:51:53Z
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@gmcgath exactly. I just get very frustrated when people lose the historical context. when they don't want to recognize that these arguments always existed. do they not know or are they intentionally trying to mislead? so when you try to assume the best, you come off as insulting them or claiming superiority. but you were trying not to call them an asshole and deepen the conversation...
(DIR) Post #AZA7RM1Aeko6sSYzuC by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-08-27T16:56:47Z
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@amerika you have an extremely pessimistic view of people that doesn't account for how well the world has managed under lots of democracy so far. and your view of the founders as conservatives somehow fails to mention that they were putting their lives on the line to reject the monarchy you prefer. how convenient.
(DIR) Post #AZAAACiiGtXUyrRa64 by Jestbill@mastodon.world
2023-08-27T17:27:11Z
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@wjmaggos Oh, oh; but wouldn't society be so much better if we made this one itty bitty change? We'll just kick this one little brick out of the foundation...
(DIR) Post #AZAFZ8Z9LygR6ggAEa by snowbored@infosec.exchange
2023-08-27T18:27:45Z
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@wjmaggos not really sure that anyone needs to address the art of confederation because the federalist and anti-federalist papers did that quite nicely. hard to believe anyone has anything better to say on that...
(DIR) Post #AZAfu6oheKXOZUcAfQ by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-27T23:22:57Z
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@wjmaggos Policies have an arc. They seem to work at first, then get overwhelmed by the problems they create.The founders wanted to break free from England and saw the monarchy as dead. They were basically right about the latter.Today they would be far-Right libertarians.
(DIR) Post #AZAwS8VPTXQkvCq0Qq by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T00:44:47Z
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@amerikaConservatives believe in an order higher than the individual, so aim toward social order as well as fairness, justice, inclusion, etc.Since when have conservatives ever been about fairness, justice and inclusion? They exclude, almost by definition. They believe in different rules and rights for people at the top versus people at the bottom.And people on the left often also believe in an order higher than the individual, but an order that is actually based on egalitarianism, fairness, justice and inclusion, rather than one based on hierarchy, inequality and exclusion.
(DIR) Post #AZAwS9TJsnLvv0rqoS by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T02:28:23Z
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@mcv Conservatives balance fairness with the need for social order.Leftists do not.The Leftist ideal is not higher than the individual; egalitarianism is just group me-first individualism.
(DIR) Post #AZAwVeR1DhRwoiSZqy by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T00:35:02Z
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@amerika Warlords are exactly the opposite of egalitarianism. That's a hierarchical and therefore conservative society.their strength is that they produce social hierarchy based on competence and character.If only. They produce social hierarchy based on connections and (often inherited) power. Look at conservative leadership in the US; they're not exactly known for their competence, and sometimes even pride themselves on their ignorance.conformity is the mob of identical individualists.That makes no sense.
(DIR) Post #AZAwVg2dFL8Bnf487U by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T02:29:01Z
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@mcv Equality makes a mob, and a mob needs warlords to rule it.Conformity is the mob of identical individualists: everyone is motivated only by personal goals, with no concern for social order or hierarchy.That is the raving mob that Leftism produces.
(DIR) Post #AZAwZvKoKQwUOCarT6 by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T00:30:25Z
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@amerikaHow many people on the Left know any US history prior to the 1960s?How many on the right do? That's where most of the historical misconceptions and misrepresentations come from.Of course lots of people have a poor historical understanding, but that's not specifically limited to the left, and perhaps more common on the right.
(DIR) Post #AZAwZwBz8jTd37TKLo by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T02:29:48Z
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@mcv I believe people on the Right generally have a greater connection to larger history.We understand it on more than an ideological level. We are interested in how reality works, not how to manipulate others with pleasant symbols (even if at the same time manipulating ourselves).
(DIR) Post #AZBzEwh0Zv6fXZcnCq by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T13:51:46Z
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@amerikaDo you believe that because you identify as right-wing? Have you considered that maybe it's your own bias colouring your perception here?Look at how conservatives in Florida and other US states are banning aspects of history from their school curriculum because it doesn't fit their politics. They explicitly insist on not learning from history. They were even arguing that slavery was good for the slaves.These aren't some fringe nutcases, these are their elected politicians.And I've been in plenty of discussions where people on the right outright denied historical facts, and tried to misrepresent large swathes of history to suit their party or ideology. If anything, conservatives are far more ideological about history, and less interested in learning from it to improve society. Which is what progressives generally try to do.
(DIR) Post #AZBzExVhXRek4nLHDk by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T14:34:19Z
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@mcv If you misrepresent the present, you will misrepresent the past.The Florida curriculum said a number of things of which that was one, and was not pro-slavery.So... fake news.
(DIR) Post #AZBzHgDSIKThJ96akC by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T14:07:42Z
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@amerikatheir methods do not produce their stated goals.Some do, some don't. The goal is to learn and improve.The Soviet Union et al are particularly poor examples. They dress themselves up in the language of socialism, but although they call themselves Marxist, they ignore what Marx said. Leninism is not Marxism. Lenin's dictatorship of the elite is not Marx's dictatorship of the proletariat. The fact that the proletariat don't get a voice and are ruled top-down by a dictator is completely at odds with everything 19th century socialists wanted (many of whom also disagreed with Marx about the need for that dictatorship of the proletariat, by the way). In all of those countries, socialism/communism has become an excuse for totalitarianism.I will absolutely admit that many of the left were fooled by the charade, the dressing up in left-wing language. They've been fooled, and they know it now, but some people have been fooled for far longer than they should have been.People should read more George Orwell. He makes pretty clear how these systems are the complete antithesis of socialism. Democratic socialism, because socialism has to be democratic. How can a system represent workers if it doesn't give them a voice? How can you get equality if people don't get an equal vote?The success of the left can be seen in western Europe and even in the US: the labour unions, rights for workers, universal suffrage, human rights, civil rights, the rule of law applying equally to everybody.These countries and their systems are still far from ideal, and especially the last 4 decades have seen a destruction of many of the social systems that had been created before, with a resulting rise in inequality. Money still holds too much power, and strives for a less equal, less fair society where the rich rule over the poor. A society where the rich can get away with crimes while the poor are locked up or even killed for questionable reasons.
(DIR) Post #AZBzHgwTawUTYmAXuy by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T14:34:49Z
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@mcv Socialism everywhere raises costs and reduces quality.We can even see this happening in Europe, where people are not reproducing and the countries make fewer quality products than they did even two decades ago.
(DIR) Post #AZBzLKAmC0cW6Hadwe by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T13:45:51Z
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@amerikaEquality makes a mob, and a mob needs warlords to rule it.Both parts of this are false. Warlords are put above others. It's the core of the conservative hierarchy, whether you call them kings or captains of industry, it's about putting people above others.Conformity is the mob of identical individualistsThey're not identical. They're equal, of equal value and importance, despite their differences. Nobody is above the law. There's no conformity; people are allowed to be different.Unlike in the conservative world view, where people need to know their place, fit their social role. Women need to be like this, men need to be like that. Poor like this, rich like that. Everybody gets their straightjacket to conform to.As for the raving mob, I suggest you look at recent events in the US to see which side has the raving mob.
(DIR) Post #AZBzLL1b1cs4k6IpH6 by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T14:35:28Z
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@mcv Sounds very Utopian and partisan.A mob must conform to its own rules. They are intolerant of anyone who thinks differently.Having seen this in action, I fear it more than a strong leader.
(DIR) Post #AZBzQGIq0at9XtiOzg by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T13:40:40Z
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@amerikaProgressives don't need to, because fairness is their social order. The fact that the conservative social order needs to be balanced against fairness shows you that it's inherently opposed to it. Their social order is unfair because it's not based on merit, but on power.The Leftist ideal is not higher than the individual; egalitarianism is just group me-first individualism.That makes no sense. Egalitarianism is explicitly about respecting others as equals and not merely putting yourself first.
(DIR) Post #AZBzQGxFaLDNZEcfz6 by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T14:36:22Z
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@mcv Big assumption: "the conservative social order needs to be balanced against fairness"You misunderstand the nature of balance. Fairness alone ignores the need for social order.Egalitarianism is always self-first. It does not matter what is right, only that you are represented. It is a complete detour from realism.
(DIR) Post #AZC25TU06t1sCiiRyi by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T15:02:45Z
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@amerikaSorry, but no. That is completely wrong. You can't just posit some unfounded claims like that and expect people to accept them.
(DIR) Post #AZC2fjSICbNwAPCpPs by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T15:09:11Z
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@amerikaThe Florida State Board of Education’s new standards includes controversial language about how “slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit,”https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-florida-standards-teach-black-people-benefited-slavery-taught-usef-rcna95418
(DIR) Post #AZC2fkMIqMBiy7PYie by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T15:12:46Z
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@mcv What percentage of the standard covers that, and what else does it say about slavery?It's not pro-slavery.
(DIR) Post #AZC2kFl62cnVVo9nbE by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T15:13:36Z
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@mcv Read Haidt's research for the first two paragraphs.For the second, might help to read some of the older material on individualism and how it forms ravening mobs.
(DIR) Post #AZC3QFEWNvzY2qwYLo by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T15:12:09Z
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@amerikaIn those two decades, social programs have been reduced. They peaked in the 1980s before Reaganomics/neoliberalism set in.The same happened in the US. After WW2, and the social programs of the New Deal, the US was the world's manufacturing giant. Since Reagan, the middle class has been hollowed out and manufacturing jobs have been shipped to low-wage countries.What you're blaming on socialism was done by capitalism.
(DIR) Post #AZC3QG1nQjPIVfzu9g by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T15:21:11Z
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@mcv Manufacturing jobs left because of costs the market would not bear due to unions, regulations, taxes, affirmative action, and lawsuit risk.In the meantime, 4/5 of our budget goes to the welfare state.So no, this is not capitalism.Technically ("eckshyually") it is what they call a "mixed economy" or "market socialism."
(DIR) Post #AZC41ebP1hChRMU4TQ by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T15:24:51Z
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@amerikaYou're wilfully blind if you don't recognise this as an attempt to spin slavery as something benefitting its victims. Something that's no quite as bad as it really was. DeSantis has a history of defending slavery this way. A number of other Republicans have too.And then there's them trying to restrict teaching about the history of racism in the US because it might make some people feel uncomfortable to learn about that history.And here you are, also trying to keep your eyes closed to the facts because they don't fit the world view you try to believe in.
(DIR) Post #AZC41fQ5zDklyaCYUK by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T15:27:57Z
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@mcv I disagree. I think they were trying to take a nuanced view, and they were not praising slavery.They are tired of the one-sided race guilt propaganda that misses that history is always nuanced.
(DIR) Post #AZC4BbZd8pOewXOrs8 by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T15:29:45Z
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@mcv Many of us see slavery for what it was: a short-sighted program to replace the labor lost through feudalism.It was low-quality labor because coerced people far from their homelands rarely produce quality output.However, it is not a binary. Many slaves were headed for execution and saved only by being sold.History does not work in simple good/evil terms.
(DIR) Post #AZC6PLCB22xG6q6ixs by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T15:31:53Z
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@amerikaIt's funny to blame it on unions, regulations and taxes, all of which were reduced during this period. Unions were being undermined, membership was down, and whole industries were being deregulated. And that's when manufacturing started moving abroad. It's exactly the opposite of how you're trying to paint it.
(DIR) Post #AZC6YkkjNc0Fypl3GS by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T15:56:21Z
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@mcv Unions are currently preparing for a major strike in the auto industry.Regulations are higher than ever before.Taxes are too high as it is now to avoid market distortions, and taxes do not compare apples-to-apples because of deductions changing during these periods.Nuance.
(DIR) Post #AZC7CHPXtIOkYthF1k by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T15:36:32Z
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@amerikaHistory is nuanced, but that doesn't mean we should be making excuses for slavery. What's next: excusing the holocaust because there was context there too?race guilt propagandaI am so sorry about making people feel guilty about their racism.You know the right way out of that guilt? Not to excuse it, but to reject it. Germany did it with the holocaust, the US should be doing it with its history of slavery and racism.
(DIR) Post #AZC7qEKuk3U2bpa1Ca by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T16:10:43Z
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@mcv We did. It's illegal now. And yet, the guilt and hatred continues.
(DIR) Post #AZCBoYpRyoGTP3K35E by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T16:55:14Z
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@mcv I might add that I do not like the Holocaust. It was not humanity at its best, to put it mildly, and backfired in every way possible, even if it was most likely concentration camp deaths and partisan executions instead of what the Soviet propaganda said it was.However, it was a forseeable crisis. Diversity divides societies and they lash out at outsiders, as Theodor Herzl observed.
(DIR) Post #AZCQvRDy9NYv9pWoeu by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T19:36:36Z
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@amerikaIt's illegal, but as a nation, the US hasn't processed that trauma the way Germany has. There are still a lot of people identifying more with the slave owners than with the slaves. That's why the guilt and hatred still continue: because it's still there, and people refuse to let go and process that ugly past.
(DIR) Post #AZCRA5ztM1PhfOvuPw by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T19:40:22Z
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@amerikaI might add that I do not like the Holocaust.I'm glad to hear that, although the way you're saying it isn't as convincing as I'd hoped.Diversity divides societies and they lash out at outsiders, as Theodor Herzl observed.No, fascism does. And to a lesser degree, conservatism. They need people at the top and people at the bottom. That's what divides society. Diversity doesn't divide society if you accept it. It only divides if people are looking for division. And fascism in particular thrives on it. We saw it then with Nazi Germany, and we see it now with Trumpism.
(DIR) Post #AZCRf1XA004aniF2v2 by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T19:52:47Z
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@mcv People at the top, middle, and bottom is nature. Google "standard distribution."What divided this society was special interests, as is common in pluralistic regimes.
(DIR) Post #AZCRgskFe9sM7cFcn2 by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T19:53:08Z
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@mcv I have never run into a single person who identified with the slaveowners except for disturbing people on poa.st.
(DIR) Post #AZCRinZjq1AqfTFPQO by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T19:53:28Z
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@mcv Are you from the northeast, or some other place where you would not have contact with the South?
(DIR) Post #AZCRlg9hshi4WZReCW by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T19:45:25Z
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@amerikaUnions are currently preparing for a major strike in the auto industry.Yeah, awesome. Unions seem to be on the rise again. I'm hopeful for a stronger middle class in the future.Regulations are higher than ever before.Not all regulations are back where they used to be, especially in the financial sector. Many of the harmful shenanigans that used to be banned are still legal.But there does seem to be a new awareness that those regulations were necessary. That the power of corporations can't go completely unchecked.Taxes are too high as it is now to avoid market distortionsDepends really on which taxes you're looking at. Some taxes are way too low, and in fact too low to avoid market distortions.
(DIR) Post #AZCRlgzokxOT8BpGQS by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T19:53:58Z
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@mcv ...that means unions were not deprecated as you claim.Financial sector regulation has failed because it is so easily worked around.
(DIR) Post #AZCRogqhl8cdXmzc2q by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T19:54:32Z
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@mcv Also, we should look at total tax burden.Europe panicked when Trump demanded 2% of GDP on defense.Why? They are taxed too high already, so now they need to cut some free stuff from government (FSG).
(DIR) Post #AZCV2CjIq4js2yfMtU by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T19:57:54Z
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@amerikaI'm unfamiliar with Haidt, and you're not doing a great job of explaining what he means. But if his conclusions are this kind of nonsense, I suspect his reasoning or his assumptions won't be great either.And if you want to see what forms ravening mobs, just look at the news about January 6. Can't get much more ravening than that, yet it was all in the service of their warlord who tried to put himself above others, above the law, while excluding parts of society that he felt needed to be hurt.That was a real mob, and it was not driven by egalitarianism.
(DIR) Post #AZCV2DPUJEU09oP3eC by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T20:30:35Z
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@mcv Here is a good intro:https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2012/03/11/why-republicans-and-democrats-will-never-agree/zlpFNNaWdjI6gS3GdDr71J/story.htmlJanuary 6th was an op -- someone let them into the building.
(DIR) Post #AZCVSp0N9enIHjLIZs by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T20:05:57Z
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@amerika Europe didn't panic, it's just that the neo-liberals of Europe love austerity and don't want to increase government expenses, while the social democrats would prefer to spend that money on social programs. Not to mention that a lot of people didn't see a need for defense (blind to Putin's threat), so it seemed like wasted money.But it's not that Europe is taxed too high (though again, it varies; not every tax is the same). And with recent events in Ukraine, there's suddenly a lot more support for increased defense spending. Western Europe used to be blind to the threat that Putin posed and thought that Russia was a normal country they could trade and negotiate with. Eastern EU members knew better and already supported defense spending.Defense spending is only justifiable when there's a threat, and since the end of the Cold War, most people thought war was permanently over. Well, apart from a few stupid self-inflicted ones maybe. But people were clearly wrong about that.
(DIR) Post #AZCWFoenEmevOYbxiq by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T20:44:15Z
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@mcv I agree that (a) Western Europe was temporarily blinded to the threat of Russia-China and (b) that the "peace dividend" was an illusion.The problem with taxes is the market distortion and raised costs to consumers, which basically obliterates autonomy and means treadmill living. No fun, which is why Europeans are not reproducing at replacement rates.
(DIR) Post #AZCWLCctXzb7BOIA8O by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-28T20:45:14Z
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@mcv Some of us were screaming about the threat of Russia decades ago. I remember that book by that Harris guy about a possible son of Stalin which hit mainstream consciousness for ten minutes. The Soviet Union polled higher than the post Cold War impoverished Russia.
(DIR) Post #AZChxKk4v6P6qz2L1k by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-28T22:50:29Z
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Tax rate doesn't have much to do with how many children people have. Prosperity and education do. And things like maternity healthcare and affordable childcare, not to mention housing prices. If people can't afford a house, they're certainly not going to have children.But by far the biggest factors are prosperity and education. Fertility rates are the highest in Africa. Then central Asia and parts of the middle east. They're the lowest in Japan, Canada, eastern and southern Europe. The US isn't at replacement rate either, despite the taxes there being far lower in recent years than they were before 1980, when the fertility rate was much higher. I think that makes it pretty clear that taxes have nothing to do with it.Also, treadmill living is far less an issue in western Europe, where people have 5 weeks of paid vacation and hard limits on their work week, than in the US, where a lot of people work more than 40 hours to get by and have no vacation time at all. Because of the weaker labour laws, less worker's rights, and weaker unions.
(DIR) Post #AZGwhexmFNggsZGgWe by mcv@nerdica.net
2023-08-30T23:56:32Z
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@amerika Oh, they were. The resurgence in union membership is a pretty recent thing. For a long time, the view that unions were harmful was surprisingly common (driven by corporate propaganda, of course), and it's pretty recent that that view has turned around.
(DIR) Post #AZHAp3gi7OI6wlhvgO by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-31T02:37:40Z
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@mcv It is a minor resurgence in a steady downward trend, probably relating to how unions got great wages in the auto industry, and then drove most of the production offshore. Real swift.