Post AZAfw00nv8jk2uAzGy by BobApril@c.im
(DIR) More posts by BobApril@c.im
(DIR) Post #AZA6EwFUXUhjWjmHdw by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-08-27T16:17:04Z
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A popular pastime with some political reporters is to compare the most recent post from Trump with the most recent tweet from Biden. This reliably produces an embarrassing contrast: Trump: always stewing, full of invective against his enemies or asking for money. Biden mostly touts his legislative achievements. Liberals call this a win, my instinct is to agree.But, there is another angle: a Trump fan said something like "Well, at least Trump is real. Biden isn't even talking to us." 1/
(DIR) Post #AZA6EwsqBCBDUmBhya by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-08-27T16:22:35Z
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The Trump fan is also correct, though what this means requires more examination. Everything Biden tweets is "vetted" and it's not really intended to be Biden giving you a little window into his day, or his thinking and reactions moment to moment. It's carefully thought out, manicured, positive... and unipersonal. Which is fine to me, but I think it bothers some people. Obama had a similar style and was called "aloof" --But no one is voting for Biden out of para-social attachment. 2/
(DIR) Post #AZA6ExdzLttTr0FMSu by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-08-27T16:24:27Z
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Still I wonder if we'll see a candidate who can *really* use social media who isn't toxic in the future?Seems like a power democrats and even better yet, the left, might want to unlock. So far, it's been easier for the right as it goes well with a "I don't care who I offend" regressive conservative political stance. 3/
(DIR) Post #AZA6EyLwiT3W3KoSyu by Aviva_Gary@noc.social
2023-08-27T16:43:02Z
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@futurebird There are people who use social media without being toxic however the proper candidate (and system helping said person) has to be there first.In other words AOC can be as great as she is at it but it won't matter because the system (as current) won't allow for a candidate like her to go that far.
(DIR) Post #AZA9EnmuITCN9F2B1M by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-08-27T17:15:04Z
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@Aviva_Gary @futurebirdYeah, it’s that damned democracy that’s always holding the far left back.Look at poor Bernie: he was cheated out of his rightful victory by those ungrateful voters who wanted a Democrat, instead.
(DIR) Post #AZABzcENHbYwp7Ke5w by Aviva_Gary@noc.social
2023-08-27T17:47:33Z
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@TruthSandwich @futurebird I just meant the political establishment would not put the care into her as they would another (in their mind better package) but sure...
(DIR) Post #AZACZG0HOvQoJNjawy by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-08-27T17:53:12Z
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@Aviva_Gary @futurebirdOuch, did you just use the e-slur?“Establishment” is what populists call non-populists, and it’s intended as an insult. It’s typically found in the context of derogatory sentences, such as “the corrupt establish is propping up the status quo; only the pure outsiders can fix things by making radical changes”.The only thing holding AOC back is AOC. And democracy, of course.As a socialist populist, she is out of touch with the Democratic mainstream and openly hostile towards its liberal base.Why would Democrats vote for an anti-Democrat?
(DIR) Post #AZAMwzCIXKSkgDJFDc by Aviva_Gary@noc.social
2023-08-27T19:50:20Z
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@TruthSandwich @futurebird Okay... I hit a nerve but I only intend discussion not insults. I had no idea establishment was a slur... my bad.However multiple things can be true at the same time: 1) Political parties as they currently exist in the US are independent orgs who can choose whomever they want as their candidates (after all in 2008 it was supposed to be Hillary until that "damn democracy") 2) The US has NEVER had a democracy... they have had several gatekeeping factors instead
(DIR) Post #AZANXz95gwx5EZS4hs by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-08-27T19:55:37Z
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@Aviva_Gary @futurebirdThe DNC is the party of liberalism. The socialist populists are opposed to liberalism, perhaps even more so than they are to fascist populism.So, as a liberal, forgive me for being unwilling to embrace the destruction of my own party by extremist lunatics.Now, if these people weren’t lunatics and just wanted a level of influence proportionate to their numbers, they would be welcomed into the big tent.But, no, they’re fucking arsonists who just want to burn it down and build a communist revolution in its ashes. Fuck that and them.As for democracy, nobody has ever achieved a perfect one, but America is a democracy and it is voting that has prevented the far left from taking over the DNC, just as voting is how we stopped Trump and will again. It is only through anti-democratic means, including voter suppression, that these extremists gain power.Bernie lost twice. Twice, the DNC rejected him, thus rejecting the socialist populism that he brings with him. We know what we want, and it’s not him or his ideas.#uspol #populism #justicedemocrats #berniesanders #aoc
(DIR) Post #AZAVJqvcFJyBKMvAX2 by Aviva_Gary@noc.social
2023-08-27T21:23:51Z
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@TruthSandwich @futurebird Wait confusion. I was trying to say the US never had democracy because of things like voter suppression (I ran out of characters sorry) but you seem far more interested in preserving a political party than that? I don't know these other people in the posts you show so I can't speak for them but honestly it looks like they don't care about democracy or how social media along with society/parties make things toxic as OP was stating; a system/gov shouldn't be this toxic
(DIR) Post #AZAVx49V0uX5dP75BA by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-08-27T21:30:30Z
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@Aviva_Gary @futurebirdI’m interested in preserving democracy.One of the things that the far left populists and far right populists completely agree on is that democracy is inconvenient and just gets in the way. Before Trump called his loss rigged, Sanders pushed the same lie, both directly and through surrogates.So if the DNC falls to its populist extreme the way the RNC already did, there’ll be no major party left that’s pro-democracy.The posts I showed are all from the Justice Democrats and supporting propagandists. They reveal the goals of the socialist populists on the whole.Below are two examples of them pushing the “rigged” narrative. One is from an MSNBC “journalist”, the other is an interview with Sanders. Keep in mind that these are just two handy examples out of many more.
(DIR) Post #AZAbPA78wLty0LEBlI by Aviva_Gary@noc.social
2023-08-27T22:32:19Z
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@TruthSandwich @futurebird I'm sure you have more examples however around that time I was far more concerned about the disinfo campaigns etcAnd I do understand the fear of losing the only major party who cares (at least a little) about democracy but the thing is it's the people (citizens, voters etc) who are the last line in the defensive wall to protect democracy. The toxicness of the everything isn't great for demo either, social media isn't helping. There must be a change in this regard.
(DIR) Post #AZAbqw98Swg4nBP5wO by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-08-27T22:35:30Z
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@Aviva_Gary @futurebirdThe toxicity is coming from the populists, and it’s not a new thing.Here are some examples of Bernie Sanders saying – repeatedly over the span of years – that the DNC and RNC are “the same”.#uspol #politics #populism
(DIR) Post #AZAfvwnZrrNG50xsjw by aburka@hachyderm.io
2023-08-27T16:25:46Z
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@futurebird AOC seems pretty good at it?
(DIR) Post #AZAfvxdKlQm4fXBDPc by michelestrider@mastodon.social
2023-08-27T16:27:37Z
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@aburka @futurebird I agree. She could teach them at lot, but I fear the old guard won't listen to someone so young.
(DIR) Post #AZAfvyXhNrrRULYEGe by HeatherFromTexas@mastodon.social
2023-08-27T17:17:35Z
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@michelestrider @aburka @futurebird I thought Fetterman was pretty great at authentic social media usage before his Senate run. (And then he had a great communications team take over while he was dealing with health issues.) I wish the Dems would run more folks like Fetterman. He presents progressive values in a way that doesn't feel pretentious or elitist. Most of the conservative folks I know actually support progressive policies, they just need a candidate they can understand and relate to.
(DIR) Post #AZAfvzIqYZZhqZbsky by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-08-27T20:18:13Z
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@HeatherFromTexas @michelestrider @aburka @futurebird#politics #uspol #populismFetterman, like AOC, is a socialist populist, not a liberal, hence not a Democrat.And, no, conservatives do not support “progressivism”. This is a socialist-populist trope that’s been hammered constantly but never had a shred of truth to it.Mostly, it’s how the far left calls for a red-brown alliance. For example:
(DIR) Post #AZAfw00nv8jk2uAzGy by BobApril@c.im
2023-08-27T22:15:06Z
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@TruthSandwich @HeatherFromTexas @michelestrider @aburka @futurebird Your insistence that these candidates/elected officials are not Democrats is a category error. We can quibble about liberal/progressive/socialist/whatever all day. But if a candidate registers and runs on the Democratic ticket, they're a Democrat (until and unless they explicitly leave the party, like Sinema did, or is expelled like Liz Cheney was by the GOP.) Likewise, even though Bernie Sanders caucuses with the Dems and might even be less extreme than some of them, he is NOT a Democrat.Nancy Mace and David Joyce are part of the same Republican Party as Jim Jordan and Marj Greene, and therefore we can and SHOULD use the extreme positions against the moderate candidates. Their party may have shifted out from under them, like it did for Kinzinger and Cheney - but it's still the one and only Republican Party. In the same way, so too are Joe Biden and Ocasio-Cortez, and even Joe Manchin all part of the same party. They share resources and strategies. They have the same (D) next to their names on the ballot. They are Democrats. And if you're right, and AOC is an infiltrator bent on changing the Democratic Party, then her success would mean that the party as a whole has changed - not that it has become a new party. You don't get to decide who is or is not a member of the party - that's up to the candidates and the party structures.
(DIR) Post #AZAfw0i3KLKcD2PWgS by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-08-27T22:33:00Z
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@BobApril @HeatherFromTexas @michelestrider @aburka @futurebird“We are not Democrats. We are loyal to the DSA and CPUSA, not the DNC. We want to take over the DNC, not join it. We hate liberals more than we hate Republicans. We want to get rid of the liberals, not compromise with them to shift policy to the left. Once again, for those in the back, we are not here to become Democrats, we’re here to destroy them. We are not Democratic sheep: we are the socialist wolves that will eat them and wear their wool as clothing.”When someone says all of these things, I’m going to believe them: they’re not Democrats. They have a few parties already – DSA, GPUSA, CPUSA – and now they want to take ours over because they need a major party in order to, as they brag, start the communist revolution in America.Bernie Sanders, for example, has said for years that he’s not a Democrat. He’d run as a Democrat only to withdraw after he got the nomination, and then enter the general elections as an independent. I don’t see how someone could be any clearer about not being a Democrat.I don’t have to decide whether they’re Democrats; they already did. The decided and they told us that they’re not; why won’t you believe them? Why are you making up excuses rather than accept their admission at face value?You know who else said they’re not Democrats? The Democratic voters as a whole. We kicked St. Bernard to the curb twice in a row because he does not represent our values. We had a chance to let a socialist populist lead our party, and we rejected it definitively.Imagine a different world, where these people were to the left of liberals but not extremists. They’d join the DNC earnestly and become Democrats, not infiltrators. They’d be content to have influence proportionate to their numbers, not a scorched-earth victory against people who largely agree with them about policy goals.But that’s not the world we live in. We do not live in a world where those left of liberalism are Democrats. Maybe you think you do, but that’s your mistake alone. The rest of us have to live in the real world. Feel free to join us, though. The truth is in plain sight.#uspol #politics #populism
(DIR) Post #AZAfw1PeiED4OGoLeC by BobApril@c.im
2023-08-27T22:51:44Z
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@TruthSandwich @HeatherFromTexas @michelestrider @aburka @futurebird I would think you would know better than to take PR as fact. They can claim all they want to not be Democrats, but that doesn't change the facts. (Sanders is an edge case, but only because the Maine Democrats allow it.) You've said that the DSA is the left equivalent of the Tea Party - but the people elected that call themselves the Tea Party ARE REPUBLICANS, right? They caucus with the GOP, share money and mailing lists with the GOP, run in the GOP primaries, they're literally part of the GOP.Likewise these folks. They can say whatever they want to attract their base. But at the end of the day, being a Democrat is a legal status that is important because of the ways our state laws are structured to favor the two main parties. They are Democrats just like Sam Ervin was a Democrat while he was railing against Brown v. Board of Education and the Civil Rights Act. The party changed out from under him. If AOC and her friends succeed, the Democratic Party will change again. What you're doing (and for that matter, what THEY'RE doing in those images you keep sharing) is a No True Scotsman argument. They may be bad Democrats. They may be harming the Party. They may be infiltrating to alter it into something unrecognizable. But it doesn't change the simple, legalistic facts. They're Democrats.
(DIR) Post #AZAfw29jwt4ahCN9Tk by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-08-27T23:05:06Z
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@BobApril @HeatherFromTexas @michelestrider @aburka @futurebirdLook, I don’t know how to make this any simpler for you: they’re not Democrats. They say it and I believe them. If you don’t, that’s your problem and you need help.Don’t play the fallacy game with me. “No True Scotsman” would be defending the generalization by shifting the goalposts, but I’m not even the one setting the goalposts.They’re explicitly denying that they’re Democrats, without prompting. Meanwhile, you keep trying to ignore this, which means that you’re the one shifting things around. When I back it up by showing that their actions are consistent with their words, you dismiss these examples because they contradict your claims.In short, you’re projecting. You’re accusing me of the fallacy that you are guilty of. That’s fucking gaslighting.And none of your arguments hold up to scrutiny.The Tea Party actually had the support of Republican voters, so they are now the RNC. The socialist populists do not have the support of Democratic voters, so when they say they’re not Democrats, the Democrats agree with them. Everyone agrees, except for you, and your opinion on this issue just doesn’t matter.Fundamentally, the problem isn’t just that they’re not Democrats, but that this means something. They oppose liberalism. They oppose the political agenda of the DNC. They vote with Republicans against the Democratic president’s initiatives.So it’s not just that they aren’t Democrats, they’re hostile towards Democrats. Are you shocked that this hostility is not met with love?If they had their way, democracy would be dead in America, and so would the Democratic Party.#populism #uspol #politics
(DIR) Post #AZCTT4i0ZJXJ55kIoS by Aviva_Gary@noc.social
2023-08-28T20:12:45Z
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@TruthSandwich @futurebird They are not the only ones... toxicity is a stew (at least after a while), you can put anything in it and eventually it will get into everything (incorporate). It can spread (like social media), it changes the discourse (media, news), focus gets blurred (body politic)... basically the leadership in all things have to make an effort to change it but people must also be the change.
(DIR) Post #AZCabY99hcSaNQQqHY by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-08-28T20:14:29Z
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@Aviva_Gary @futurebirdNot sure what that means.
(DIR) Post #AZEJDdpraeSwALLGK0 by Aviva_Gary@noc.social
2023-08-29T17:27:18Z
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@TruthSandwich @futurebird Toxicity, by it's nature isn't just limited to one group of people because it spreads and makes the whole toxic...so (after a time) everyone swims in the toxicity, which means everyone has to stop the toxic (get out of the pool) but there must be an effort made... usually there isn't
(DIR) Post #AZEN6mlYO7dneXJQp6 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-08-29T17:28:30Z
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@Aviva_Gary @futurebirdNo, it can definitely be entirely one-sided.Populism is inherently toxic to democracy.
(DIR) Post #AZEYVPg2T5xWmMg9Dc by Aviva_Gary@noc.social
2023-08-29T20:18:41Z
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@TruthSandwich @futurebird I am not saying they AREN'T toxic... I am saying it is more than just themMedia doing things for the money and clicksPeople who barely pay attention to the things happening around them/refuse to actPolitical parties too enthralled with how things are or are actively trying to kill the country All that is toxic and then the toxin spreads...
(DIR) Post #AZEexrFEAKsM6z5JQ0 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-08-29T20:20:06Z
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@Aviva_Gary @futurebirdSee, there you go: “too enthralled with how things are” is the populist re-framing of competent politicians as “the corrupt establishment perpetuating the status quo”.The toxicity is coming from inside the far left.
(DIR) Post #AZGZVq24y3jIn0fsIq by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-08-30T06:20:40Z
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@Aviva_Gary @futurebirdJust going to point out that @Aviva_Gary went silent at this point instead of, say, acknowledging that their framing was deeply biased.
(DIR) Post #AZGZVqnE8lRZ9EjWnA by Aviva_Gary@noc.social
2023-08-30T19:39:19Z
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@TruthSandwich @futurebird Hi... I just got this post now? However I would like to know where the competent politicians are because I rate that based on how they are improving people's lives (where the people know and feel it) and I am not seeing that...
(DIR) Post #AZGi9890MUzxtBA1kO by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-08-30T19:41:23Z
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@Aviva_Gary @futurebirdSo you’ve never heard of this guy named “Joe Biden”? Interesting.
(DIR) Post #AZILErRLTHOXBpQGtk by Aviva_Gary@noc.social
2023-08-31T16:08:51Z
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@TruthSandwich @futurebird If all of your policies can be undone they were never done in the first place...
(DIR) Post #AZIhPMqNlW3oTTY4mm by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-08-31T16:15:21Z
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@Aviva_Gary @futurebirdYou mean like how Trump got rid of the ACA?(Hint: Trump was unable to do so.)
(DIR) Post #AZKTANhDIxrLjP8ivI by Aviva_Gary@noc.social
2023-09-01T16:46:44Z
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@TruthSandwich @futurebird Exactly my point! If your policies can be done/undone/done like the damn fairies and make it pink make it blue... there is something very wrong. I'm not saying burn it all to the ground, I'm saying what if we improved it though... which leads me back to OP point of making social media better for the everyone (who sues it and otherwise) in this arena.
(DIR) Post #AZKUrMsGKtEPaZMxJw by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-09-01T16:49:08Z
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@Aviva_Gary @futurebirdMy point was that, in fact, policies cannot be trivially undone, especially if they’re designed (like ACA was) to resist such efforts.And that comes down to what I said before: we need competent politicians. Populism will never give us that.
(DIR) Post #AZKoLD891ft1BYk2rI by Aviva_Gary@noc.social
2023-09-01T20:44:33Z
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@TruthSandwich @futurebird The Supreme Court exists but more importantly yes we do need competent politicians... I'd say never say never on the origins front just as a general rule I have but my whole point is in order to get to the position we are today...Where competence is in low supply, where people aren't being helped in a positive meaningful permanent way the system itself is sick (toxic as what the OP was getting on). It should be improved.Everything is not fine.
(DIR) Post #AZKs5YcLlkFN0gf4M4 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-09-01T21:26:33Z
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@Aviva_Gary @futurebirdThing is, we have competent politicians, just so long as you avoid the populist extremists.
(DIR) Post #AZKsYQLDcS87juPfAO by Aviva_Gary@noc.social
2023-09-01T21:31:48Z
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@TruthSandwich @futurebird If you say so
(DIR) Post #AZKtKKbYFbutqctdxo by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-09-01T21:40:22Z
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@Aviva_Gary @futurebirdI say so and even offered some examples. Joe Biden is nothing if not competent. And that applies to a whole raft of Democrats waiting in the wings, including Kamala Harris.In contrast, the Republicans are a bunch of mostly-incompetent fascists, and the far left that’s trying to take over the DNC are mostly-incompetent socialists. Both populist extremes are, true to populism, incompetent.