Post AZ6KZzQAYss4AlrfcW by lednabwm@mstdn.party
(DIR) More posts by lednabwm@mstdn.party
(DIR) Post #AZ5dDkEe2tf2ftcXQG by lednabwm@mstdn.party
2023-08-25T12:58:07Z
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Of course....
(DIR) Post #AZ6HsLyr7ogTUQ9bdY by dragnucs@social.touha.me
2023-08-25T20:34:51Z
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@lednabwm Not to debate religion, but determining right from wrong is not always easy.For example, is Universal Basic Income right or wrong. What about debt interest payment?
(DIR) Post #AZ6JW5dLQDa2KObUsS by lednabwm@mstdn.party
2023-08-25T20:53:12Z
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@dragnucs I see what you are saying, but the morality of UBI, for instance, isn't a thing. If a society uses something artificial, like money, as a means of exchange, it would only make sense to have wealth distributed relatively evenly. So, a UBI is just another tool to achieve that.
(DIR) Post #AZ6JdVSbnSJgSJ7Q0W by dragnucs@social.touha.me
2023-08-25T20:54:34Z
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@lednabwm I am personally neutral towards UBI. It is just an example of right and wrong since it is a subject to debate and people stil cannot decide which it is.
(DIR) Post #AZ6Jnz4IZP5bB8kBMG by lednabwm@mstdn.party
2023-08-25T20:56:27Z
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@dragnucs I view it as a tool. There is a right way and the wrong way to use that tool. The notion of it by itself can not be accessed as right nor wrong
(DIR) Post #AZ6JvK7CiUlaTubQYa by jhavok@mastodon.social
2023-08-25T20:57:46Z
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@dragnucs @lednabwm Not sure where you see moral questions with those issues unless you're one of those Loyalty/Betrayal; Authority/Subversion; Sanctity/Degradation assholes.
(DIR) Post #AZ6JwIIGyTGt7cF78i by dragnucs@social.touha.me
2023-08-25T20:58:00Z
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@lednabwm the point still stands. It is not easy to distinguish right from wrong in all cases.
(DIR) Post #AZ6K4mnJSQdm2CoKY4 by dragnucs@social.touha.me
2023-08-25T20:59:31Z
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@jhavok @lednabwm No more here. :D. Just saying that right and wrong are not easily distinguishable. This has many reasons, like cultural bias, history, and even if the subject is obscure or too new.
(DIR) Post #AZ6KZzQAYss4AlrfcW by lednabwm@mstdn.party
2023-08-25T21:05:08Z
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@dragnucs @jhavok In the context of this meme, they are talking about human behavior that is right or wrong in a moral sense. Religious people are told thru morals come from their religion. That's just not true. A sociopath has no empathy, for example. This is true no matter what religion they pretend is theirs.
(DIR) Post #AZ6Lg4zuqCVd9y3JrM by collette@sfba.social
2023-08-25T21:17:26Z
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@dragnucs @lednabwm possibly something like UBI is neither right nor wrong but it can be used for right or wrong
(DIR) Post #AZ6SCUGV22iEW7e6DI by benda@kolektiva.social
2023-08-25T22:30:31Z
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@dragnucs @lednabwm the problem is poor framing will always lead to poor discussion. the question is ubi right or wrong is poorly framed. the correct question when presented with this discussion is "does everyone deserve a minimal standard of material living?"the former question, that you posit, wouldn't even have an answer. who determines "basic"? $100 a month? I think that's wrong, bc $100 doesn't even cover food in most of the western world. $1,000,000 a month? are we buying yachts for everyone now? with the correct framing, right and wrong is obvious if you have, as the original post says, any sense of empathy.
(DIR) Post #AZ6UMpFm3K4uPoMcwC by dragnucs@social.touha.me
2023-08-25T22:54:48Z
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@benda @lednabwm Benda, the initial assertion is not whether UBI is good or not, but the difficulty if discerning wrong from right. UBI was just an example of how this is not easy.This issue should be a yes or no question. For example, is paying money in exchange for goods wrong? Answer is a straight no.While the question is UBI bad? the answer is complicated.Which just proves it easy to discern the right and the wrong.Let us not focus on UBI. Perhaps loan interest as the other example.
(DIR) Post #AZ6UnpbGs5w3JFIQr2 by benda@kolektiva.social
2023-08-25T22:59:35Z
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@dragnucs @lednabwm I think you missed my point. my point is the framing is what's important. so with respect to interest. the correct question is "is it right or wrong to attain material wealth based on having wealth?" well, the logical conclusion is the rich will get richer, the poor poorer. as an empathetic individual, I don't want people who are already struggling to struggle further especially not at the material benefit of the already privileged.if you frame the conversation appropriately, right and wrong is easy.
(DIR) Post #AZ6V9L5Uzr9z30gtXM by dragnucs@social.touha.me
2023-08-25T23:03:35Z
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@benda @lednabwm But everyone is doing interset, why can't they see it is wrong? Why don't they go to jail if it is wrong. In contrast, killing people is wrong, insurance fraude is wrong and if you commit them, you go to jail. If you receive or pay interest, you don't go to jail.Moreover, if the framing is important to answer a simple yes or no question, then discerning those concepts is not easy and not any body can do it since most will struggle with framing the issue.
(DIR) Post #AZ6VIt5dwj216tJMx6 by benda@kolektiva.social
2023-08-25T23:05:18Z
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@dragnucs @lednabwm yeah I don't know what conversation you're having now. we're not arguing about whether or not things are legal. we're arguing about morality. and I certainly never claimed everyone is moral.
(DIR) Post #AZ6VZhpP4Sm16Yjcwa by dragnucs@social.touha.me
2023-08-25T23:08:21Z
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@benda @lednabwm It brings us back to the original meme making fun of people for not being able to apprehend one of the most difficult concept of life; morality.Basicaly, I do agree with you, things are complex and context is very important. So right and wrong is not a straight cut. We need a referential to be able to tell.
(DIR) Post #AZ6Vl3Rf2W5PKn2bg0 by benda@kolektiva.social
2023-08-25T23:10:23Z
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@dragnucs @lednabwm yeah I think we need more discussion. I think if we begin with a question, then discuss, we can agree on how the framing ought to be (assuming the discussion is genuine and no one is committed to an ideological position).
(DIR) Post #AZ6WhUe04XgCUDg7PM by lednabwm@mstdn.party
2023-08-25T23:20:58Z
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@dragnucs @bendaYou've totally misconstrued the point of the meme. You've taken it out of context. It's being an apologist for awful people. It's clear to many others who have either favorited it or boosted it. I suggest that if you don't understand what the right or wrong is being referred to here, you best figure it out.
(DIR) Post #AZ6X7Jw6VURmnzSgOu by dragnucs@social.touha.me
2023-08-25T23:25:38Z
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@lednabwm @benda if it is something in particular, then I don't know.
(DIR) Post #AZ6XFudlvPTyxTz4KG by benda@kolektiva.social
2023-08-25T23:27:09Z
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@dragnucs @lednabwm I interpreted the original meme as positing:1) one does not need religion to be moral.2) morality is based on empathy. I agree with and am trying to argue these 2 statements.
(DIR) Post #AZ6Y3kowi0Rcywyck4 by benda@kolektiva.social
2023-08-25T23:24:27Z
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@lednabwm @dragnucs to be fair, I think he's trying to be nuanced and I don't mind the (so far seemingly) genuine conversation.
(DIR) Post #AZ6Y3ldHgqi7V4WpCi by lednabwm@mstdn.party
2023-08-25T23:31:14Z
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@benda @dragnucs Ok... You're welcome to get at it. But he clearly indicated the original post was offensive to people who are obviously religious. I submit that if you are religious and you are offended by being reminded that empathy is a component at the heart of morality, then you really don't understand morality.
(DIR) Post #AZ6Y3tRAflm5hovGQy by dragnucs@social.touha.me
2023-08-25T23:36:11Z
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@lednabwm @benda I am not offended at all. However, I do broaden the subject of good and bad to more than morality and empathy since it can also be about objects or objective things. Like one with himself, or his finances.
(DIR) Post #AZ6YwEvoyP5o0UAoRU by Raven47@calckey.world
2023-08-25T23:44:41.211Z
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@lednabwm@mstdn.party @dragnucs@social.touha.me My fellow Mastodonians,in scientific publications when we use abbreviations we write the expression the first time in extension and put the abbreviation after this in brackets. After that we use the abbreviation and every reader knows exactly what we are talking about:Universal Basic Income (UBI)Thank you for your attention😘🙏
(DIR) Post #AZ6YwFolg72qktsh5U by dragnucs@social.touha.me
2023-08-25T23:46:01Z
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@Raven47 @lednabwm Thank you for recommendation. :D
(DIR) Post #AZ6Z0nPgiGXi6mJe9A by benda@kolektiva.social
2023-08-25T23:46:45Z
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@dragnucs @lednabwm morality by definition is the determination of right or wrong. as with respect to oneself and behavior that only affects oneself... do you think one cannot have empathy for oneself? I would argue that not only can one have empathy for oneself but it is no different from the empathy we have for others. at least, once reaches a level of enlightenment to recognize we are all one/parts of one.