Post AZ3tEFlK2TALP9FXcG by sam@queernerds.social
(DIR) More posts by sam@queernerds.social
(DIR) Post #AZ3Ce4hdU4tCbXakMa by sam@queernerds.social
2023-08-22T19:01:31Z
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just saw a well known science fiction author who i really respect retooting some really fringe "COVID is airborne HIV" stuff and please understand that if anyone is using that rhetoric they truly do not know what they're talking about
(DIR) Post #AZ3Ce5aaBmqFLxId0a by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-08-24T08:52:03.930779Z
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have you considered that they might actually know what they are talking about?https://soap.shitposter.club/@jeffcliff/posts/AYzlrVdV9ODKYMfFUe
(DIR) Post #AZ3tDiJAQ82JeGp5eK by sam@queernerds.social
2023-08-24T13:51:29Z
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@jeffcliff I'm looking at the paper you linked. It turns out computational protein modeling is actually an area where I do know what I'm talking about, as it's what I did my PhD in. it's an odd paper, it looks like they're trying to identify evolutionarily feasible mutations that might make the Sars-CoV-2 N protein bind well to CD147, which, they hypothesize, would result in immune suppression. So this paper presents a possible future of the virus, not its present state. 1/
(DIR) Post #AZ3tDsEDXO1EPoaHK4 by sam@queernerds.social
2023-08-24T13:53:24Z
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@jeffcliff further, their argument that this set of mutations would actually do what they claim is unconvincing. Computational protein-protein docking is a tricky thing to get right and is often incorrect even in the hands of experts. It is a tool you use to generate hypothesis, and i was highly disappointed to see a lack of experimental data validating their results. At a minimum I would want to see them express their putative future N protein and see if it actually binds to CD147. 2/
(DIR) Post #AZ3tEFlK2TALP9FXcG by sam@queernerds.social
2023-08-24T13:57:19Z
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@jeffcliff and even if it does, "If SARS-CoV-2 binds CD147 it would cause AIDS" is a _hell_ of a leap and from a brief survey of the literature is not very well supported by any actual clincial data.I did find another recent paper on the subject of lymphopenia in covid patients: https://academic.oup.com/jmcb/article/14/5/mjac034/6596158It does look like the virus can infect immune cells, but AIDS isn't caused by a virus simply infecting immune cells and replicating. rather it is caused by permanent integration of the virus 3/
(DIR) Post #AZ3tEYmNKmIWNut9Oa by sam@queernerds.social
2023-08-24T13:59:26Z
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@jeffcliff into those immune cells. temporary suppression of the immune system is not AIDS, and is not remotely unique to covid. lots of viruses knock back your immune system for a while after you get sick. COVID is bad, it's better not to get it. it clearly causes autoimmune issues at a much higher rate than many other viruses, so there's probably some cross-reactivity between part of the virus and some human proteins. but theres really no evidence that it causes AIDS
(DIR) Post #AZ3tNTI177b3xtwDLs by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-08-24T16:50:56.909566Z
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looks like it does https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34863742/
(DIR) Post #AZ3tRQPFm9xaBICx96 by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-08-24T16:51:38.031549Z
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> rather it is caused by permanent integration of the virus Permanent infection has been observed.
(DIR) Post #AZ3tYumhEGPeQMkE6a by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-08-24T16:52:59.977904Z
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3) the suppression of the immune system is clearly not temporary, as @fitterhappierAJ shows.> and is not remotely unique to covid. lots of viruses knock back your immune system for a while after you get sick.Some more than others. But one unique thing about covid is that it both knocks the immune system *and* people are getting mutliple rounds of it over a short period.
(DIR) Post #AZ3tfHvu4nTnxJ5enQ by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-08-24T16:54:10.260833Z
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> but theres really no evidence that it causes AIDSThere is, in the sudden surge of fungal infections that, until now have been primarily observed in AIDS patients, and T-cell tests that normally only occur for AIDS patients occurring for covid patients
(DIR) Post #AZ3uapZbftggnO6EPA by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-08-24T17:04:32.915209Z
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This is not to say they are absolutely equivalent : there are going to be differences between the two, and it's plausible our disagreement resolves to interpreting those differences in different ways. Such as requiring a single infection vs. multiple, on average to get the same level of damage. But there might be other differences, and I'm curious what *you* think they are[ Every person I've asked about this so far has come up with things that covid already does, like binding to cd147 like the but maybe you'll be different ]
(DIR) Post #AZ3zdFiXwS9aELFsZM by sam@queernerds.social
2023-08-24T17:55:13Z
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@jeffcliff im pretty busy today so it's gonna take me a while to respond to everything but if you're talking about the c. auris outbreak that's been in the news that got flagged by the CDC as an emerging threat back in 2018, it's definitely not something that popped up because of covid https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.cste.org/resource/resmgr/ps/2018ps/18-ID-05_Dec2018_Update.pdf
(DIR) Post #AZ3ze6T7oWJFprRoOG by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-08-24T18:01:11.412420Z
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No, i'm obviously not talking about something that started in 2018 I'm talking about other things that have been occurring since 2019
(DIR) Post #AZ3zr0EaIy1aGQnUnI by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-08-24T18:03:31.274649Z
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@fitterhappierAJ > A while back many people who did not know what they were talking about spoke out of turn and claimed Covid did not increase susceptibility to fungal infection from immune harm > The CDC now disagrees with them https://cdc.gov/fungal/covid-fungal.htmlhttps://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1653137497604366342
(DIR) Post #AZ41d8WOtbLzoxe8Wm by sam@queernerds.social
2023-08-24T18:04:17Z
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@jeffcliff you know what, you don't know me, i don't know you. we don't follow each other, and I'm not inclined to spend a huge amount of time arguing with strangers online if they're gonna be dicks about it. I know a lot of people who aren't actually aware of how long the c. auris thing has been going on since it really only started getting talked about outside of emerging disease circles until last year or so, which is why i asked if that's what your'e referring to.
(DIR) Post #AZ41d9OddwjsXB1S4G by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-08-24T18:23:25.243235Z
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How am I being a dick about it?You started a thread in a way that is completely dismissive and insulting of people.I could respond in kind but I am more interested in finding whether you actually know something about HIV/covid that I don't.I do follow you, incidentally, you just can't see it.
(DIR) Post #AZ438CbtqOBZQub0Ay by sam@queernerds.social
2023-08-24T18:18:35Z
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@jeffcliff OK this is honestly the last post im going to make on this particular thread. in my OP I objected to people describing covid as "airborne AIDS". the reason I object to that is that AIDS is actually a very specific disease caused by long term, nearly complete depletion of t cells. while SARS-CoV-2 clearly can cause some immune supression, and in a (tiny) number of cases people end up with persistent active infections, there is _no_ evidence that it is resulting in actual AIDS. 1/
(DIR) Post #AZ438DNkySSzpKzDlo by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-08-24T18:40:14.540114Z
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AIDS is not the pathogen, HIV is. There is no reason other pathogens could not cause AIDS.> nearly complete depletion of t cellsWhich is what covid will do, after multiple infections.>(tiny) number of cases people end up with persistent active infections, Well at least you acknowledge that far. What makes you think it isn't *everyone* who gets covid?> , there is _no_ evidence that it is resulting in actual AIDS. You said that at the top and then I linked to evidence, described other evidence. Surely we can get past this "THERE'S NO EVIDENCE" stage at this point, even if we disagree on the nature of the extent of, say, viral persistence - the existence of observed viral persistence is a hint that it's more widespread than just a couple of rare cases.
(DIR) Post #AZ438Du12WGrRO4z3I by sam@queernerds.social
2023-08-24T18:19:57Z
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@jeffcliff there is lots of evidence that it causes more immune issues than your average severe respiratory infection (immune issues in the wake of viruses is a thing, its not just COVID), that is not what im arguing against. I'm arguing against the idea that the impact on the immune system is comprable in terms of severity or likelyhood to HIV
(DIR) Post #AZ43DULbKE2XtLUcJE by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-08-24T18:41:12.194861Z
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The thing is, though is what you're doing is not arguing at all. You're just insulting people who claim contrary to you on this, and then when you are questioned about it *with* evidence to the contrary you are immediately noping out.