Post AZ2CsGmDCF6SwlXaS0 by BowsacNoodle@poa.st
(DIR) More posts by BowsacNoodle@poa.st
(DIR) Post #AZ0xpOExIVqYkuC6T2 by CatLord@poa.st
2023-08-23T06:56:41.546664Z
12 likes, 5 repeats
(DIR) Post #AZ0yjeD76iskVG9squ by SaltWraith@poa.st
2023-08-23T07:06:51.915139Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@CatLord Gotta entertain yourself somehow.
(DIR) Post #AZ10jPg9KsGpLHkutE by jetzkrieg@poa.st
2023-08-23T07:29:13.791237Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@CatLord Me when i try to think about this
(DIR) Post #AZ12t1C7QGSMD3PuBk by Shadowbroker2135@poa.st
2023-08-23T07:53:22.455041Z
5 likes, 2 repeats
@CatLord >Holy Trinity be like
(DIR) Post #AZ1Mv5Y4CgopNLwnmy by EHP@bae.st
2023-08-23T09:40:21.173793Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@CatLord I think its more like this1. You make a bratty cat girl2. You tease her until she is losing her mind, calling you a monster and telling you to die3. You play dead / leave for a little while to make preparations for your honeymoon4. ???5. Profit
(DIR) Post #AZ1Mv6XOWfsKRYdmNc by EHP@bae.st
2023-08-23T10:38:08.650483Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@CatLord I think the cause of the confusion this image creates, is he didn't sacrifice himself to himself. He sacrificed himself to us. Jesus death on the cross was God promising to always forgive us our mistakes, even killing him or his most beloved son. Because to him its all just super moe.And yes he did create us to need his sacrifice, so he wanted to sacrifice himself to us and it did indeed all come together perfectly. So there is a lot of truth in your picture.
(DIR) Post #AZ1N0EsIxJYFkUry7c by CatLord@poa.st
2023-08-23T11:38:46.710764Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@EHP why was he mad about man in the first place if he knew he would need to sacrifice himself to man in order to redeem man because man was so shit, according to his standard
(DIR) Post #AZ1PVvkxlyK3d4fuLo by Crux_Invictus@poa.st
2023-08-23T12:06:55.146901Z
6 likes, 1 repeats
@CatLord @EHP Do you ever get angry when you tell someone not to do something and they do it anyway? Have you ever put rules in place in order to protect people from harm only for them to break those rules and blame you when they get hurt?Yes, because God is all-knowing He knew what would happen when He gave humanity free will, but that does not make Him responsible for our fuck-ups. But if He knew He would have to go to the Cross for us why did He make us? Have we ever seriously considered that maybe the God who made us actually loves what He made, even though we've all fallen short? That maybe, just maybe, He doesn't want His creation to burn for eternity?That is why He had to go to the Cross, so that justice could be done because He is a just God and He went willingly because He loves us. He didn't sacrifice Himself to us, He sacrificed Himself for us and paid the price for our sins. If it wasn't done this way, who could call Him just? If He just waved the price then that would make Him arbitrary. And if He just wiped the slate clean and started again, who could say that He loved what He had made?
(DIR) Post #AZ1RIyeHuKvgk9VIK8 by CatLord@poa.st
2023-08-23T12:26:59.219431Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@Crux_Invictus @EHP Why not create a more perfect creature that still has free will but also greater capacity for reason and sound judgement, that will naturally make more moral decisions?If I created a creature such as man, knowing what they are, I wouldn't get angry when they stumbled or erred, no. It's predictable and their behaviour is within the scope of my expectation.Why is the wordly incarnation and sacrifice necessary for redemption of man? It is arbitrary. Additionally, what is being redeemed? Is it original sin or is God forgiving man for his nature? If it's the latter, then isn't that a moment of humility for God: "yeah I know you're flawed, guess I shouldn't have exterminated you all in the past, here I'll live and die painfully as one of you in solidarity" - I haven't seen Christians refer to the act that way though. Did he just change his mind?Also, justice wasn't done with the cross: the jews had Jesus executed. Well, maybe that is justice according to them but surely not to you, no?
(DIR) Post #AZ1U2lyTYx2MfCuYnw by BowsacNoodle@poa.st
2023-08-23T12:57:40.336275Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Crux_Invictus @CatLord @EHP >Have kids. Set very clear rules specifically to prevent serious harm. Kid break rules because they can. Get hurt and cry. I comfort them. "I told you not to do this thing that hurt you for this exact reason". Realize I have put God through this same frustration thousands of times in my life through my own sin and disobedience.Having children is an incredibly humbling experience that gave me a sliver of insight into the issue of free will.
(DIR) Post #AZ1W9zVjpgJoa82UZU by Crux_Invictus@poa.st
2023-08-23T13:21:23.339475Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@CatLord @EHP The issue isn't that humanity just wasn't created perfect enough, the issue is free will. Consider the angels, the spiritual beings who constantly see and experience God, who like humanity possess free will and as a result are capable of disobeying God and falling.God could create the creature of your hypothesis but because it has free will it will eventually fall like humanity did. So, what's the alternative? Would you prefer a God who created puppets that were only capable of obeying Him? Is there any value in such a creation?As for you saying you wouldn't get angry when your creation acts according to it's nature, must be peaceful, never having to experience frustration, disappointment, or anger as the result of human actions.>Why is the wordly incarnation and sacrifice necessary for redemption of man? It is arbitrary.Because there was a debt that needed to be paid. Jesus paying that debt for humanity (because humanity can't as a sin against an infinite being is infinite) was necessary and the only way to redeem us. It's not arbitrary, it's God following His own rules. If God ignored His own rules and wiped the slate clean instead He would be arbitrary and not just.>Additionally, what is being redeemed? Is it original sin or is God forgiving man for his nature?God is forgiving the sins of those who believe in His Son Jesus Christ. Redeeming is forgiving, it's bringing back into the fold, into the family so to speak. The fallen nature of man is also addressed through the resurrection but it's an ongoing process we call sanctification that finishes after the Christian dies. As a result of the death and resurrection the Christian is able to, through the Holy Spirit, resist their sinful nature. Key word there is resist as Christians are not perfect and still fall to temptation, hence why sanctification (the process through which God makes us perfect) is ongoing and why confession and absolution are a major pillar of Christian life.>If it's the latter, then isn't that a moment of humility for God: "yeah I know you're flawed, guess I shouldn't have exterminated you all in the past, here I'll live and die painfully as one of you in solidarity" - I haven't seen Christians refer to the act that way though. Did he just change his mind?You keep putting the blame on God and taking away the agency of humans. We are responsible for our own actions, stop trying to put that on God.You also misunderstand what God created, God did not create anything flawed, creation became flawed by human disobedience. If you want to argue that free will is a flaw then you're welcome to give yourself enough brain damage that you're no longer capable of making your own decisions.There are times when God changes His mind, when He relents and turns aside from His anger. The plan of salvation is not one of those times, it was always God's plan to die in order to save us because that's how much He loves us.>Also, justice wasn't done with the cross: the jews had Jesus executed. Well, maybe that is justice according to them but surely not to you, no?You're mixing up civil justice and God's justice. Jesus' death on the cross and His resurrection is justice, not according to me because I'm human, but according to God."For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18 ESVI want everyone reading this to know and remember that Jesus would have still gone to His death even if it only meant saving you.
(DIR) Post #AZ1WBmd0hX5dCpIMoi by Dice@frennet.xyz
2023-08-23T13:02:28.856Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Crux_Invictus@poa.st @CatLord@poa.st @EHP@bae.st God sacrificed his son to save us. I can't think of any other gods who'd give up their own kin to save mankind. None.
(DIR) Post #AZ1bDadSlCBiMSBhTc by CatLord@poa.st
2023-08-23T14:18:02.962059Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Crux_Invictus @EHP >consider the angelsI did. They certainly betray God a hell of a lot less often than man does, according to God's standard. This is the point that I was making. It's like if I made a race of angels and then a race with a pyromaniac streak and get mad when the latter burns things. That is God with man. Why? To the point where supposedly all of them succumbed to their nature and pissed him off so much that he wiped them out, except for one, who was okay. Did he not know what he was doing? Is he dumb?Maybe he should have been satisfied with the angels. Or maybe create an even more wonderful race of beings that impart his will upon the world with a greater degree of perfection. Doing so is not depriving them of free will, because as you said, and I agree with, angels have free will. They're not puppets or holy robots. To my knowledge, they haven't transgressed upon him to such a degree that he destroys all of them except for one. They see him, serve him, and are close to him, except for some bad apples. Sounds good.I'm not arguing against free will but basic understanding of the nature of a man or other being, which includes free will. Kikes could all choose tomorrow to become good. They don't. I don't expect that they will do this, even though they could and it's within their power. I expect them to behave according to their nature (how they're made). God should have expected Man to behave like, well, a man.>As for you saying you wouldn't get angry when your creation acts according to it's nature, must be peaceful, never having to experience frustration, disappointment, or anger as the result of human actions.I don't understand what you mean here. But no, if I put an ant colony in my garden, I wouldn't gasp with astonishment when they burrow around and make holes.Regarding the sacrifice, this does sound arbitrary to me. A wound against an infinite being is infinite? So, we've all wounded God? Then it isn't just those using free will to do great evil but every single one of his creations that is spurning him in various ways. Shouldn't he expect it? This is very retarded, sorry. I understand the touching symbolism of God becoming man, but not in this context at all. Man must pay a debt because it's law? But he skirts the law because man could never really pay the debt anyway, and pays it himself? This is legalistic. It's the same as wiping the debt arbitrarily, just with added flair.>God is forgiving the sins of those who believe in His Son Jesus Christ. >I made you as you are and you've all injured me but I'll forgive you, but only if you believe I've forgiven you, and only if you believe that forgiveness was given through this particular ritualKind of weird but I guess. This is why I'm not a Christian, man. It doesn't have the ring of truth at all, nor does it make sense. It's silly.>sanctificationThis brings us back to the argument of why not create such a more perfect being in the first place, if this is God's desire. Clearly, he is capable of doing so and has done so before. Again, this does not negate free will.>You keep putting the blame on God and taking away the agency of humans. We are responsible for our own actions, stop trying to put that on God.Yeah but God is the one who is getting mad about it. I'm not. He DID create man, and then he got angry about what man was doing. Yeah, you bear a share of that responsibility, as creator. Not all of it, but some, for sure. Man absolutely has agency, but he has agency to carry out the aspects of his nature. God created man with knowledge of that nature and then sperged out about it. I'm not going to say "if god real why man do bad thing" but rather, why create a being with such a nature, if you don't desire he behave according to it? Now, if he had created a race of supermen and then a few of them chose to deliberately deviate into some kind of hellish beast, that is more reasonable. Man is responsible for himself. God IS also responsible.If it was always God's plan to save us then it goes back to its arbitrary quality and why he feels the need to extend the hand of salvation after previously deciding to get mad and wipe everyone out. Maybe he should maintain less distance from man, appearing more than only once on Earth, and actually get involved in the governing of man and the world, so that people could benefit from his wisdom directly and not upset him so much. There'd certainly be fewer church schisms lol.
(DIR) Post #AZ1c54ildKjx1AAl7Y by CatLord@poa.st
2023-08-23T14:27:43.699104Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Crux_Invictus @EHP btw i know this is a long ass response. i didnt expect to get into such a discussion when i posted that dumb meme lol. its like half past midnight so if you want to table it, im not going to be a fag and declare victory or whatever
(DIR) Post #AZ1fNk3OztpOHgPuSW by Nesano@detroitriotcity.com
2023-08-23T15:04:42.871317Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Crux_Invictus @EHP @CatLord What you just said sounded pretty delusional because you left out the whole idea of Jesus being sent in the first place. The idea was God sent a mortal version of himself down so he could experience mortal life with the mortals before the other stuff you mentioned.
(DIR) Post #AZ1uJT8tQkKBzLPDwO by EHP@bae.st
2023-08-23T17:47:15.728776Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@BowsacNoodle @CatLord @Crux_Invictus I wont pretend understand this perfectly, but I think God wants to be loved. He wants us to obey him because we love him and we want to make him happy and for no other reason.Dept has nothing to do with it. Gods blood has infinite worth, so any dept that needed to be paid would have been paid at his circumcision. The crucifixion was a completely gratuitous act of love. It was him giving his engagement vow to us. Promising that he will marry us if we believe in him, i.e in the legitimacy of that promise. If we believe we have done something so horrible that he would not marry us, and thus doubt his love for us, then he wont marry us. The fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, i.e of what it means to miss the mark, is worry that we might miss the mark. Do not worry! That is the good news.Also he does not want us to obey him because he is worried about our safety. Any danger in the world is created by him or at least with his permission. So if he was worried about our safety he would just remove all dangers. He is not worried about pain or death at all. Death in Gods perspective is probably closer to the average persons view of sex than to the average persons view of death. It is the ultimate union with him. Telling saints to die is like telling them to go have sex with God. Except the saint knows that you dont know this and you think that it means "go disappear forever", and that makes him sad because he loves you and want to be with you forever. Jesus was frustrated in the garden not because he was about to die but because people wanted him gone / didn't love him. The reason you dont commit suicide as a saint is that you are given the opportunity to be an ambassador for God, Selling the idea of uniting with him to people who have chosen to distance themselves from him. Which is tempting because being united with him also means possessing his desire to be united with everyone else. But I think all saints look forward to their death in a way, like you look forward to coming home when out on a long trip even though you are also enjoying the travel.
(DIR) Post #AZ2AuIRrkfcWnprYrw by Crux_Invictus@poa.st
2023-08-23T20:57:57.565677Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Nesano @EHP @CatLord >The idea was God sent a mortal version of himself down so he could experience mortal life with the mortalsNo, it really wasn't.“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." John 3:16-17 ESV
(DIR) Post #AZ2B9k4xIwWMqCVnA8 by Nesano@detroitriotcity.com
2023-08-23T21:00:44.368711Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Crux_Invictus @EHP @CatLord I guess that makes sense, considering the idea is he impregnated a mortal.
(DIR) Post #AZ2CU09DN4G6QHjCrI by EHP@bae.st
2023-08-23T21:05:38.093315Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@BowsacNoodle @CatLord @Crux_Invictus Hot take:Gods commands should be held to the same standard of reasonability as those given by a husband to his wife during sex, and should be obeyed with the same passion and for the same reasons as a wife obeys her husband during sex.Edit: Should probably be "ideal housband / wife"Edit 2: I should probably just stop watching porn
(DIR) Post #AZ2CsGmDCF6SwlXaS0 by BowsacNoodle@poa.st
2023-08-23T21:19:56.268461Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@EHP @CatLord @Crux_Invictus I agree with edit 2. Not everything has to be a sex metaphor. Please. As for God's blood, there's a holy day for The Circumcision of Christ. The idea being one drop of His blood was enough to cleanse the whole world.
(DIR) Post #AZ2GVfQnlSg4ZI0JnM by EHP@bae.st
2023-08-23T21:58:43.251445Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@BowsacNoodle And love doesnt keep track of debt in general. So its pretty obviously not about making up for what is lost, God can do that with a snap of his fingers. The Crucifixion is all about God telling us that he loves us / is willing to die for us. Which fixes sin if you believe in him because sin is to doubting that he loves us.
(DIR) Post #AZ2jKYB7HupNYhicwC by CatLord@poa.st
2023-08-24T03:23:40.463059Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@EHP @BowsacNoodle @Crux_Invictus mate what
(DIR) Post #AZ2jPA6kD1GaLxsApU by ICXCLOVE@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-23T23:24:53Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@CatLord @EHP @Crux_Invictus this was a very fun discussion chain for me to read through. I am a believer and struggle with many of the same questions. And if you read the accounts of Yeshua/Jesus, the work of the cross is much more mysterious as well. I would just like to point out to colorcat that ranson theory also has some merits. The idea is this, for there to be good news you must consider the bad news, ie Satan
(DIR) Post #AZ2jPBq9lfBbj67xFg by ICXCLOVE@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-23T23:33:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@CatLord @EHP @Crux_Invictus contd, Satan translates as the accuser. He accuses man of any wrongdoing upon his death, and in this way ‘owns’ the soul of departed humans who are continually racked with guilt over the wrongdoing they are accused of in the hereafter. So now Yeshua, I’m sharing his spirit with us, allows us to live in union with his perfect resurrected spirit.
(DIR) Post #AZ2jPDJcHcLUIkuzoG by ICXCLOVE@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-23T23:34:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@CatLord @EHP @Crux_Invictus contd: So in life and in suffering, we can live with his peace and in death, we can overcome any accusations by aligning and relying on his righteousness. In this way, he died for us, and paid the ransom for our sins. Sorry for the multiple toots, anyone care to share how to write one continuous long one?
(DIR) Post #AZ2jUTC6fo2ezrubMe by CatLord@poa.st
2023-08-24T03:25:27.191528Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ICXCLOVE @EHP @Crux_Invictus My instance gives 5000 characters bro idk what noagenda allows you