Post AYWwjRS7o7Kx912Wiu by Phil@freeatlantis.com
(DIR) More posts by Phil@freeatlantis.com
(DIR) Post #AYWnykHnAVc4JMQfk8 by mpe@ravenation.club
2023-08-08T17:13:24Z
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A catastrophic decision for the most vulnerable, who rely on *population-wide* immunity, as they (we/me) can't produce a significant antibody response, even with targeted vaccines.
(DIR) Post #AYWnylJxJwwDWMRukq by Phil@freeatlantis.com
2023-08-08T17:44:58Z
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@mpe Neither the flu vaccine, nor the Covid-19 vaccine have proven themselves capable of producing anything close to population wide immunity. So catastrophic is an enormous stretch. Even unfortunate might be a bit strong.
(DIR) Post #AYWvfj1KRtCeW9AbLM by rochelimit@fosstodon.org
2023-08-08T19:11:10Z
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@PhilHuh, in the uk at least in the middle of winter last year after a booster campaign, 95% of adults had enough antibodies to protect against infection. YMMV.@mpe
(DIR) Post #AYWwjRS7o7Kx912Wiu by Phil@freeatlantis.com
2023-08-08T19:23:04Z
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@rochelimit @mpe The success of the flu shot varies from year to year. 62% effectiveness is considered a good year. As to Covid It provides some resistance to infection but it is very short term and had an up to 20% break through infection rate. Populatin wide immunity has historically required a 95% immunity rate. This was not achieved with Covid.
(DIR) Post #AYWyXkSDXBhgVfdQ4e by rochelimit@fosstodon.org
2023-08-08T19:43:21Z
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@PhilWell yes. But being 'immune' has never meant 'zero infection risk', rather reduced risk, so it seems we're mixing up 'immunity' with 'effectiveness'. @mpe
(DIR) Post #AYWyzTdJfSyuRt33Wy by Phil@freeatlantis.com
2023-08-08T19:48:20Z
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@rochelimit @mpe No, a certain level of effectiveness is required to reach "herd" immunity. Being reliant on herd immunity was the point of the original post.Neither the flu vaccine, nor the Covid vaccine are effective enough to produce "herd" immunity. However, those, coupled with natural immunity from infections may be. This does not mean it wont benefit somebody. but the statement, that no longer providing them free is a catastrophe, is over the top.
(DIR) Post #AYX1tEiIWe88Ik5u6q by rochelimit@fosstodon.org
2023-08-08T20:20:50Z
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@PhilYou said population immunity "required a 95% immunity rate", but figure is the regularly quoted one for 'vaccination rate' against measles, which is many times more infectious than covid. From the research papers, it seems a 60% immunity rate could provide herd immunity, suppressing spread of infection. With an 80% efficacious vaccine that wouldn't need the whole population vaccinated, just most. @mpe
(DIR) Post #AYX2UPKvzY23xltICu by Phil@freeatlantis.com
2023-08-08T20:27:34Z
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@rochelimit @mpe Maybe, but the 95% immunity rate being required for Herd Immunity is from the CDC. of course they aren't right about everything.I suspect that measles is a bit different, since there are so many people alive that have had the disease and are not vaccinated but are nonetheless immune.